CUEmu - Thread Posts

Kasyan

Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:50 pm

As I read what more astute Commandos have said about the CU and its negative impact to Commando (although there are MANY good things) - I can only wonder why do some of us simply "roll over" with all these drastic changes to the way Commando functions in combat - rather than stand firm on those aspects to Commando that makes us unique?

We have a great profession that has the potential of being very unique in SWG - but to date is nothing more than a glorified marksman -- and with the CU completely loses the uniqueness that is still aparrent pre-CU(in PvE combat).

For myself - I use the Rocket Launcher regularly as my friend is a stand up Weapons Smith --- and I for one will extremely miss the classic Heavy Weapons - in particular the Rocket Launcher.

What we have always needed is to have our profession 'addressed' not RECYCLED into a generic combat profession with a coloring of the classic Commando for a pleasant effect.

If SOE does not see fit to do for Commando what is LONG over due, then this 17 month Commando sees no purpose in waiting another 18 months + for the profession to be RECYCLED again, without simply fixing it to make it work properly.

... and the frustration continues...

I didn't spend 19 months playing to be recycled into a nominal profession that has no uniqueness or place in group combat, and like many I am upset and disappointed that the over $284.00 dollars I and others have paid for a broken profession will be (as things standnow) less than what it was --- just now I can hit what I shoot at.

(If the developers only could feel our frustration - maybe then they might see things as we see them)

I would really like to hear from the Coorespondent and Gavin, and Kav on this one --- and if a Dev can weigh in that would be great...

Kass

Message Edited by Kasyan on 04-17-2005 05:03 PM

~Kass'yan ~
Imperial Army Major - Inquisition Squadron Ace Pilot.
11/03 Veteran -ΞTHRAWN'S HAMMERΞ-Elder Commando

garvin

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:24 pm

#2

Kasyan wrote:

As I read what more astute Commandos have said about the CU and its negative impact to Commando (although there are MANY good things) - I can only wonder why do some of us simply "roll over" with all these drastic changes to the way Commando functions in combat - rather than stand firm on those aspects to Commando that makes us unique?

1) The CU changes make us MORE unique, and make us more then a 1 weapon profession (by that, I mean using more then one weapon on a REGULAR basis). Not only are we more unique, we become THE MOST unique combat profession in the game as we are the only profession that can take ANY special and convert it into a Heavy Damage specail as well as add status effects or a DoT and make it an AOE. We also have more Non-Consumable weapons then any other profession. And we have Grenades that kick butt.

2) You make it sound like most Commandos dislike our changes...Most of the Commandos I've spoken with LOVE the changes, but would like to see more...We don't need to stand firm AGAINST these changes...We need (and are) to stand firm to see MORE changes come our way...We need to assist the devs in getting all the bugs worked out.

3) The change to the Rocket Launcher is huge...and it will take a lot of getting use too...but overall it's for the best (and there is more coming that MAY make it even better)...I'm glad to hear that you used your Rocket Launcher on a Regular basis, but most of us just used our Consumable weapons on "special occasions, like to starta fight or when we weren't the direct target)...What some folks don't realize is, for all the good the RL was, other professions were still outdamaging us DPS...and the way this game is structured with no 1 or 2 quick hit kills, this game is an Over Time style of combat...that means HE who has thebest DPS Wins!

So...we are losing our "uniqueness" post CU...ok...time to put your money where your mouth is with that statement...Name one profession post CU that (1) adds status effects to other professions specials, (2) Has explosive thrown weapons that add status effects, (3) Can add a DoT to any special, (4) Can convert any special into an Area of Effect, and (5) Has ALL Ranges represented in it's weapon choices INCLUDING Melee. Other combat professions do get specials of their own, but WE take their specials and make them BETTER! That is our BIGGEST uniqueness...

And that's not the end of it...there is always the possibility that we could see Unique specials added to our profession as well...since DAY 1 of the CU discussions, I have been pushing for the Devs to have unique specials ready as a back-up plan...When the Sandbox testers all came aboard, they pushed the devs to have unique specials ready as a back-up plan...And even more recently we've all reminded the devs to have unique specials ready as a back-up plan...Everytime we've brought this devs up with the Devs they've asked us for 1 thing...To try out the changes and see if we miss our unique specials...That's a main point of our testing...if we make a case that we NEED unique specials of our own (which I'm not entirely convinced of yet) then we can bring that back to them.

Before you claim that we are making Commando worse or that the CU is having a negative impact on Commandos, go back and review our Top 5 issues...you'll see that ALL 5 of our Top issues are being addressed...We are getting RANGED specials (via Marksman and any other Ranged special we gain)...We are getting higher defenses...We are getting more speed and accuracy...We are getting a KD Counter...The devs have dealt with the issues of us having limited uses for our Consumable weapons...Our grenades no longer damage the user....And our weapons CAUSE status effects (which will have a much greater impact post CU)...

So, maybe you see this as "rolling over"...I see this as we are getting many of the things we've been begging for since launch...No...it's not perfect yet, but with each patch (and big thanks to Helios), it's getting closer and closer...

Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie
Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith
ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

zero8404

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:30 pm

#3

who cares what other peeps say, go to test and see for yourself. im tired of posts that only state "what others say" to test, see whats what for yourself and test. make the proff you love better.

Zeronock

Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:24 pm

#4

I lost all hope for commandos when i read that ANY ranged weapon can use ANY special... I thought it was just our weapons that did...

*sniff* *sniff* Do you smell that.....??? Oh....my bad did my flamesingle2 just hit the jedi??? What a wonderful smell I've just discovered...

Rathask

Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:01 am

#5

garvin wrote:

...We are getting a KD Counter...

Slight quibble here: yes, we have a KD counter, but it doesn't pre-empt the KD. It happens after the fact. This, sadly, is useless, because, if dizzied, one cannot get up even with KD Recovery. Also, the dizzy recoveries from other professions do not work when a commando weapon is equipped. Blind and stun recoveries we can do without, but without a dizzy recovery, it's a lose-lose situation for the commando (I got dizzy KD'd by a level 29 Imperial Executioner in Espa todayand couldn't get up for two minutes - luckily, I was 51 levels higher than him, so he wasn't doing jack for damage; only time I've actually been happy with levels in SWG -now if only they'd remove that damned damage multiplier).

Message Edited by Rathask on 04-18-2005 04:03 AM

Message Edited by Rathask on 04-18-2005 04:05 AM

- Reb. Col. Raytheon Kednallen (ret.),
Master Commando/Master Bounty Hunter
Shadowfire

- Raythen: Master Commando/MBH/Pistoleer TC-Ep3

StarNick

Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:09 am

#6

The question with counters...we can't have it all unfortunately. I see recoveries as being one of our biggest weaknesses in our defense matrix, which is something we can easily attain if we master another profession. Every profession should have a few weaknesses or something that it can't do as good as a profession that has the role for it...

Now...they better get the bug fixed nevertheless

--Stern Synex-- --Master Commando-- --IDI Forces----Proud Commando of 42 Months-- --Last Commando Correspondent--
We fear no enemy...we are the few, the proud, and the brave. We are, Commando!
Pyro Games

garvin

Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:47 am

#7

Rathask wrote:

garvin wrote:

...We are getting a KD Counter...

Slight quibble here: yes, we have a KD counter, but it doesn't pre-empt the KD. It happens after the fact. This, sadly, is useless, because, if dizzied, one cannot get up even with KD Recovery. Also, the dizzy recoveries from other professions do not work when a commando weapon is equipped. Blind and stun recoveries we can do without, but without a dizzy recovery, it's a lose-lose situation for the commando (I got dizzy KD'd by a level 29 Imperial Executioner in Espa todayand couldn't get up for two minutes - luckily, I was 51 levels higher than him, so he wasn't doing jack for damage; only time I've actually been happy with levels in SWG -now if only they'd remove that damned damage multiplier).

I've actually been pushing for a /KnockdownCounter2 to be placed at Master Marksman and Master Brawler...Besides getting the bugs out of the KD counter system, I'd like to see a version with less costs and one that many clears ALL status effects as well as counters KD. This would make the Master Boxes MUCH more desirable...It goes along with my theory of "if you make template building full of tough choices, we'll see more variety and have more fun designing our characters"...

Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie
Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith
ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

djkav

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:22 am

#8

As I read what more astute Commandos have said about the CU and its negative impact to Commando (although there are MANY good things) - I can only wonder why do some of us simply "roll over" with all these drastic changes to the way Commando functions in combat - rather than stand firm on those aspects to Commando that makes us unique?

I have spoke to a lot of commandos on TC, and I have to say that non of them have said anything negative about the profession. We haven't changed much from live as a profession. Only with the exception of more weaponory. The fact that most of TC have embraced some part of the commando profession speaks volumes that we are all positive about it.

We have a great profession that has the potential of being very unique in SWG - but to date is nothing more than a glorified marksman -- and with the CU completely loses the uniqueness that is still aparrent pre-CU (in PvE combat).

I disagree. In fact I would say that we have become even more unique now. We have possible the widest range of weapons. We are probably the only profession with built in weapon specials. Most of our weapons can fire automatically with every shot AoE, a State effect, and possible DoT. We are also the only profession that can take another professions' special and enhance it with our built in specials. Eg: I equip my plasma flamer thrower (PFT) and i use the Rapid Fire special. Thats 2.7k damage in 1.8 secs. Each shot with AoE, and a possible Fire DoT. At the moment all of our weapons are skill tied to commando, meaning that you have to pick up that commando skill to wield the weapon.

For myself - I use the Rocket Launcher regularly as my friend is a stand up Weapons Smith --- and I for one will extremely miss the classic Heavy Weapons - in particular the Rocket Launcher.

We haven't "lost" the classic weapons. They have been updated and made to work. I can honestly say that I never really used the consumable weapons because they were expensive, and not very useful. All our wepaons have now got a whole lot better. I for the first time have started to use more of them.

What we have always needed is to have our profession 'addressed' not RECYCLED into a generic combat profession with a coloring of the classic Commando for a pleasant effect.

If SOE does not see fit to do for Commando what is LONG over due, then this 17 month Commando sees no purpose in waiting another 18 months + for the profession to be RECYCLED again, without simply fixing it to make it work properly.

... and the frustration continues...

I didn't spend 19 months playing to be recycled into a nominal profession that has no uniqueness or place in group combat, and like many I am upset and disappointed that the over $284.00 dollars I and others have paid for a broken profession will be (as things stand now) less than what it was --- just now I can hit what I shoot at.

We are still a unique profession. I believe we have a more purpose role in group play now. We are still a key ingredient in base destrucion raids. We also provide heavy support to groups. As a profession, we can deliver state specials via our AoE weapons. How many other professions can do that! Also our huge damage potential makes us extremely useful for high content grouping. We are also the DoT specialists now. I see us in a front line support role for large faction PvP battles, with our high damaging AoE special taking weaponory.

(If the developers only could feel our frustration - maybe then they might see things as we see them)

The devs have been listening to use. Helios_SOE has gone beyond what we have expected. He (i presume hes a he) has been in regular contact thru the commando forum, and there is even a thread where he has been praised and thanked for his work from fellow commandos.

I would really like to hear from the Coorespondent and Gavin, and Kav on this one --- and if a Dev can weigh in that would be great...

I hope i've able to give you some insight...

Kav - Former -TC- Overlord [ Elder Jedi MDef / LS oo44 / Heal 41oo / Enh 4oo2 ]
Cartman - Former -TC- Overlord [ Elder MBH / MCarb / CM 4ooo ]

"Wot did you think was in ya mouse. A load of fiber-opticials, and megachips... Nah, just a load of me, Mr Mouse!"

Cancelled simply because SWG aint no fun for me any more.

wolfgang74

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:28 am

#9

After playing a commando on the CU test server, I don't think I can log back in to the live game until the CU is in it

garvin

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:46 am

#10

A key thing that folks need to remember is that, techically, we haven't lost our flame specials...They would have been changed anyway to work like what we have now via the CU, except, if they were seperated from our weapons, we'd be back down to just 2 unique specials that add Flame DoTs and one that likely had an AOE.

The big difference (and what really make us unique) is we create Commando specials using any gained special (even from Marksman) with our weapons...

Some folks are saying "we've lost our identity"...but I disagree...Our weapons are still Heavy Weapons...our Weapons can add status effects, a DoT or even convert to AOE. And our Grenades have been vastly improved in my opinion, if only for the fact that we don't die by them anymore.

Every profession has a role...If you break it all down, my interpretation of our roll is WEAPONS...For us, it's all about our Weapons and how our weapons effect specials...Some folks say "but I want to be a Commando/Non-Combat template, and I won't be able to compete as well"...I'm sorry for this next response if it offends, but "well, duh!"....A Half Combat template SHOULDN'T compete as well as a Full Combat template.

And as for the folks that say a Commando/Melee template can't compete as well against a Ranged/Ranged template...again, sorry to say, but "well duh!"....The thing about this game is it's mainly geared towards Ranged Combat...That's not to say that a Melee/Melee template or Commando/Melee template can't compete, but that template style needs to employ much more strategy then a Ranged/Ranged template, especially when it comes to PvP. So really, a Commando/Ranged template will be likely the obvious choice for those who want what most will consider the "strongest" PvE/PvP template...

But really, it comes down to play style...I don't play much PvP...Post-CU, I might play a bit more, but I will likely still rarely play PvP until the GCW Revamp when PvP becomes much more inviting...So my template build will be more heavily focused on PvE...and for that, Melee or Ranged is perfectly fine...The key for me will be to get 2 or 3 ranged specials that work well, and then, beyond that, how many more do I really need...Smuggler gives a few nice ones (including mezzing)...Mezzing will help get and keep folks in close range for me to use my heavier Commando weapons or some type of Melee attack (I still plan on being a Commando/TK).

Anyway...some folks may think we are losing something via the CU...I for one think we are gaining tons, including limitless possibilities that we never had a reason to even consider before...But before you complain about the way something is, think about it...maybe it SHOULD be that way...

Message Edited by garvin on 04-18-2005 10:50 AM

Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie
Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith
ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

Kasyan

Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:57 pm

#11

I appreciate the responses ---

And just to save some face, I did say "and there are many good things"...

Some of your insights have helped greatly --- as they say sometimes its hard to see the box when you're in it...

However I want to clarify one thing --- when I used the term unique I was thinking of the fact that at one time Flame ruled SWG ---

Now I know that's old hat - but I will just say that for myself the my perception no longer sees Commando the way I once did...

I have held out for the CU hoping that I would be "wow'ed" and that didn't happen becuase despite all the remarkable things done to Commando ---- they took away that "rock your socks" punch of my Rocket Launcher...

And for me --- that killed Commando

(Again I appreciate the feedback on the topic I through out --- but I think it's time for me to consider moving on from Commando)

~Kass'yan ~
Imperial Army Major - Inquisition Squadron Ace Pilot.
11/03 Veteran -ΞTHRAWN'S HAMMERΞ-Elder Commando

Darth-Dominus

Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:36 pm

#12

I love the changes to Commando and the rest of the profs more or less, its just the levels and the associated damage multipliers as well as the flashy lights whenever I do something that make me what to /flamesingle 2 myself.

Vasarian Brandy Master Swordsman, Master Doc
Ladi Deathstrike Master Commando, MBH, Pistoleer 0004.

Bagdes??? We don't need no stinking badges.

Commando Archive

Thread: Rolling Over Again... (Coorespondent, Garvin, Kav and Dev please post replies)