Commando Archive
Thread: At last! My work is complete! Muahahaha!
Page 1 of 1
RazerWolf
Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:48 pm
#1
Well, almost. 32 screenshots of combat logs later, I have some interesting raw data. It's pretty much self explanatory, the 03 or 14:08 or whatever is a timestamp in seconds and minutes:seconds, the 4-5 figure number the combat spam damage, and the ---- represents a miss. The doubling of numbers for some RL shots indicate where the blast caught a second target. The only reason all the RL shots hit is because I was shooting a lair.
Speedthrower 482-800 3.0
44:49 8958
44:56 6921
45:03 7768
45:09 6589
45:16 7799
45:22 6859
45:29 6332
45:36 8074
45:43 6892
45:49 8043
45:56 6416
46:02 8262
46:09 5978
8417
9115
7501
6846
9355
6077
9502
7580
9454
6249
8900
8600
7902
5951
6448
8587
7260
Damagethrower 641-1064 4.2
15:40 9598
15:49 12157
15:58 10369
16:07 ----
16:17 12413
16:26 10839
16:35 11176
16:44 10320
16:54 10488
HAR 357-753 3.5
46 4277
53 3064
01 5044
13:22 4729
13:29 2688
13:37 2627
13:44 1516
13:52 1530
14:00 1419
14:08 ----
14:15 4507
14:23 3893
14:31 5415
14:39 4980
LLC 425-719 2.9
58 4165
00 ----
02 5352
04 ----
07 4863
09 4245
11 ----
14 3657
16 ----
19 4263
21 4384
23 4208
26 ----
28 5092
30 ----
32 ----
35 ----
37 4985
40 4485
42 3911
44 ----
47 5106
49 5179
51 4114
54 3664
56 4112
58 4142
01 3964
03 3614
05 4670
Rocket Launcher 1190-3900 6.5
16 5055 5061
20 3122 3415
23 4132
27 3372
31 4669
35 3766
38 4999
42 2128
46 2211
50 3575
54 3080
58 4849
01 3781 5464
That's a lot of data, aint it.
What does it tell us?
Well:
The 3.0 speed flamer fires 12 shots in 80 seconds. 6.66 seconds per shot.
The 4.2 speed flamer fires 8 shots in 74 seconds. 9.25 seconds per shot.
The 3.5 speed HAR fires 10 shots in 77 seconds. 7.7 seconds per shot.
The 2.9 speed LLC fires 29 (!) shots in 67 seconds. 2.31 seconds per shot.
The 6.5 speed RL fires 12 shots in 45 seconds. 3.75 seconds per shot.
From this we can work out the speed modifier.
6.67/3.0 = 2.22
9.25/4.2 = 2.20
7.70/3.5 = 2.20 (Seeing a pattern here?)
2.31/2.9 = 0.796 (Wow!)
3.75/6.5 = 0.577
But wait, this doesn't take into account the player's weapon speed mod? Which is what for all these weapons?
FT = 45
HAR = 45
LLC = 65
RL = 60
Now we can use the "real" SWG speed equation, where (time between shots) = ((Weapon Speed S x Special Delay Mod D ) x ((100-Weapon Speed Mod P )/100))
Confusing equation, I know.
Now we want the delay mod, D, so...
D = Attack rate / ( ((100-P)/100) x S)
For the FT,
D = 6.67 / ( ((100-45)/100) x 3.0) = 4.04
D = 9.25 / ( ((100-45)/100) x 4.2) = 4.00
For the HAR,
D = 7.70 / ( ((100-45)/100) x 3.5) = 4.00
(As a slight aside, here's even more proof that the HAR is an FT clone, the specials have the same delay mods!)
For the LLC,
D = 2.31 / ( ((100-65)/100) x 2.9) = 2.28 (Far faster than the Commando guns)
For the RL,
D = 3.75 / ( ((100-60)/100) x 6.5) = 1.44
So let's round these up to the most likely figures. Judging from the existingly worked out modifiers, the devs seem to like simple numbers. A lot of BH specials have a 2.30 Speed modifier for example, while atacks like Stopping Shot and Last Ditch have a 4.0 Speed Mod.
FT = 4.0
HAR = 4.0
LLC = 2.3
RL = 1.5
End of Part One!
Speedthrower 482-800 3.0
44:49 8958
44:56 6921
45:03 7768
45:09 6589
45:16 7799
45:22 6859
45:29 6332
45:36 8074
45:43 6892
45:49 8043
45:56 6416
46:02 8262
46:09 5978
8417
9115
7501
6846
9355
6077
9502
7580
9454
6249
8900
8600
7902
5951
6448
8587
7260
Damagethrower 641-1064 4.2
15:40 9598
15:49 12157
15:58 10369
16:07 ----
16:17 12413
16:26 10839
16:35 11176
16:44 10320
16:54 10488
HAR 357-753 3.5
46 4277
53 3064
01 5044
13:22 4729
13:29 2688
13:37 2627
13:44 1516
13:52 1530
14:00 1419
14:08 ----
14:15 4507
14:23 3893
14:31 5415
14:39 4980
LLC 425-719 2.9
58 4165
00 ----
02 5352
04 ----
07 4863
09 4245
11 ----
14 3657
16 ----
19 4263
21 4384
23 4208
26 ----
28 5092
30 ----
32 ----
35 ----
37 4985
40 4485
42 3911
44 ----
47 5106
49 5179
51 4114
54 3664
56 4112
58 4142
01 3964
03 3614
05 4670
Rocket Launcher 1190-3900 6.5
16 5055 5061
20 3122 3415
23 4132
27 3372
31 4669
35 3766
38 4999
42 2128
46 2211
50 3575
54 3080
58 4849
01 3781 5464
That's a lot of data, aint it.
What does it tell us?
Well:
The 3.0 speed flamer fires 12 shots in 80 seconds. 6.66 seconds per shot.
The 4.2 speed flamer fires 8 shots in 74 seconds. 9.25 seconds per shot.
The 3.5 speed HAR fires 10 shots in 77 seconds. 7.7 seconds per shot.
The 2.9 speed LLC fires 29 (!) shots in 67 seconds. 2.31 seconds per shot.
The 6.5 speed RL fires 12 shots in 45 seconds. 3.75 seconds per shot.
From this we can work out the speed modifier.
6.67/3.0 = 2.22
9.25/4.2 = 2.20
7.70/3.5 = 2.20 (Seeing a pattern here?)
2.31/2.9 = 0.796 (Wow!)
3.75/6.5 = 0.577
But wait, this doesn't take into account the player's weapon speed mod? Which is what for all these weapons?
FT = 45
HAR = 45
LLC = 65
RL = 60
Now we can use the "real" SWG speed equation, where (time between shots) = ((Weapon Speed S x Special Delay Mod D ) x ((100-Weapon Speed Mod P )/100))
Confusing equation, I know.
Now we want the delay mod, D, so...
D = Attack rate / ( ((100-P)/100) x S)
For the FT,
D = 6.67 / ( ((100-45)/100) x 3.0) = 4.04
D = 9.25 / ( ((100-45)/100) x 4.2) = 4.00
For the HAR,
D = 7.70 / ( ((100-45)/100) x 3.5) = 4.00
(As a slight aside, here's even more proof that the HAR is an FT clone, the specials have the same delay mods!)
For the LLC,
D = 2.31 / ( ((100-65)/100) x 2.9) = 2.28 (Far faster than the Commando guns)
For the RL,
D = 3.75 / ( ((100-60)/100) x 6.5) = 1.44
So let's round these up to the most likely figures. Judging from the existingly worked out modifiers, the devs seem to like simple numbers. A lot of BH specials have a 2.30 Speed modifier for example, while atacks like Stopping Shot and Last Ditch have a 4.0 Speed Mod.
FT = 4.0
HAR = 4.0
LLC = 2.3
RL = 1.5
End of Part One!
Message Edited by RazerWolf on 08-18-2004 09:41 PM
RazerWolf
Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:49 pm
#2
Part Two: Damage, Inc!
Okay, we've worked out the speed equations. What about damage?
Let's look at the Speedthrower's damage results, and pick the highest and lowest then.
Highest = 9502
Lowest = 5951
And the weapon's damage? 482-800
The Highest hit and max damage should be roughly equal to the lowest hit over min damage
9502 / 800 = 11.88
5951 / 482 = 12.35
Not exact, but roughly 12.
It -should- be more accurate if, say, we take a large number of damage readings and average them, and compare to the average damage of the weapon.
(800+482)/2 = 641
So let's add up the 30 speedthrower damage values. We get a total of 228635 damage. Divide that by 30 hits, for an average of 7621 per hit. (The average of the most extreme hits was 7726, very close).
So, 7621 / 641 = 11.89
This should be close to the value for the damage modifier. The Devs are unlikely to use a number as cumbersome as 11.89, so it's more likely to be 12.0
Let's see what the Damagethrower numbers give us.
Hi/Lo = 12413/9598
Wpn = 641-1064
12413 / 1064 = 11.67
9598 / 641 = 14.97
1064+641 / 2 = 852.5
Total Damagethrower damage = 87360 over 8 attacks. Average = 10920.
10920 / 852.5 = 12.8
Of course, that's only 8 attacks. Not nearly enough to get an accurate reading, but enough for a guideline.
What about the HAR?
Well, the lowest values are as follows:
13:44 1516
13:52 1530
14:00 1419
They don't seem to fit however. Chances are I was intimidated at the time, so double those figures.
13:44 3032
13:52 3060
14:00 2838
Hi/Lo = 5415/2627
Wpn = 357-753
5415 / 753 = 7.19
2627 / 357 = 7.35
753+357 / 2 = 555
Total HAR damage = 50154 over 13 attacks. Average = 3858.
3858 / 555 = 6.95
What the? The HAR numbers are coming up around the 7.2 range? Of course, all attacks which caused DOTs were increased in actual damage when the DOT values were nerfed, including the Flame specials. But since the HAR never had a DOT, AcidSingle2 has stayed sucky. 7.2 would seem to make sense, as if the DOT attack damages were increased by a factor of 2/3, then 7.2 becomes 12.0...
What about the LLC then? It's got different speed mods, so what about damage?
Hi/Lo = 5352/3614
Wpn = 425-719
5352 / 719 = 7.44
3614 / 425 = 8.50
719+425 / 2 = 572
Total HAR damage = 92175 over 21 attacks. Average = 4389.
4389 / 555 = 7.67
What about the 8.50? Well, chances are I was just "lucky" in not getting many low-end damage hits.
And finally, the Rocket Launcher.
Hi/Lo = 5061/2211
Wpn = 1190-3900
5061 / 3900 = 1.30
2211 / 1190 = 1.85
1190+3900 / 2 = 2545
Total HAR damage = 62679 over 16 hits. Average = 3917.
3917 / 2545 = 1.54
So, let's have a look at the figures we have.
FT - 12.0
HAR - 7.2
LLC - call it 7.5
RL - Say 1.5
Oh, but of course. These values are a combination of the Special Damage Modifiers and the 1.5x modifier which all attacks get. Thus the final values are:
FT - 8.0
HAR - 4.8
LLC - 5.0
RL - 1 (Which is of course correct, the Rocket Launcher has not "special" modifier, it is entirely a default attack.)
The point of all this? To get exact numbers to feed into a spreadsheet! Joy! :/
Okay, we've worked out the speed equations. What about damage?
Let's look at the Speedthrower's damage results, and pick the highest and lowest then.
Highest = 9502
Lowest = 5951
And the weapon's damage? 482-800
The Highest hit and max damage should be roughly equal to the lowest hit over min damage
9502 / 800 = 11.88
5951 / 482 = 12.35
Not exact, but roughly 12.
It -should- be more accurate if, say, we take a large number of damage readings and average them, and compare to the average damage of the weapon.
(800+482)/2 = 641
So let's add up the 30 speedthrower damage values. We get a total of 228635 damage. Divide that by 30 hits, for an average of 7621 per hit. (The average of the most extreme hits was 7726, very close).
So, 7621 / 641 = 11.89
This should be close to the value for the damage modifier. The Devs are unlikely to use a number as cumbersome as 11.89, so it's more likely to be 12.0
Let's see what the Damagethrower numbers give us.
Hi/Lo = 12413/9598
Wpn = 641-1064
12413 / 1064 = 11.67
9598 / 641 = 14.97
1064+641 / 2 = 852.5
Total Damagethrower damage = 87360 over 8 attacks. Average = 10920.
10920 / 852.5 = 12.8
Of course, that's only 8 attacks. Not nearly enough to get an accurate reading, but enough for a guideline.
What about the HAR?
Well, the lowest values are as follows:
13:44 1516
13:52 1530
14:00 1419
They don't seem to fit however. Chances are I was intimidated at the time, so double those figures.
13:44 3032
13:52 3060
14:00 2838
Hi/Lo = 5415/2627
Wpn = 357-753
5415 / 753 = 7.19
2627 / 357 = 7.35
753+357 / 2 = 555
Total HAR damage = 50154 over 13 attacks. Average = 3858.
3858 / 555 = 6.95
What the? The HAR numbers are coming up around the 7.2 range? Of course, all attacks which caused DOTs were increased in actual damage when the DOT values were nerfed, including the Flame specials. But since the HAR never had a DOT, AcidSingle2 has stayed sucky. 7.2 would seem to make sense, as if the DOT attack damages were increased by a factor of 2/3, then 7.2 becomes 12.0...
What about the LLC then? It's got different speed mods, so what about damage?
Hi/Lo = 5352/3614
Wpn = 425-719
5352 / 719 = 7.44
3614 / 425 = 8.50
719+425 / 2 = 572
Total HAR damage = 92175 over 21 attacks. Average = 4389.
4389 / 555 = 7.67
What about the 8.50? Well, chances are I was just "lucky" in not getting many low-end damage hits.
And finally, the Rocket Launcher.
Hi/Lo = 5061/2211
Wpn = 1190-3900
5061 / 3900 = 1.30
2211 / 1190 = 1.85
1190+3900 / 2 = 2545
Total HAR damage = 62679 over 16 hits. Average = 3917.
3917 / 2545 = 1.54
So, let's have a look at the figures we have.
FT - 12.0
HAR - 7.2
LLC - call it 7.5
RL - Say 1.5
Oh, but of course. These values are a combination of the Special Damage Modifiers and the 1.5x modifier which all attacks get. Thus the final values are:
FT - 8.0
HAR - 4.8
LLC - 5.0
RL - 1 (Which is of course correct, the Rocket Launcher has not "special" modifier, it is entirely a default attack.)
The point of all this? To get exact numbers to feed into a spreadsheet! Joy! :/
Message Edited by RazerWolf on 08-16-2004 11:07 PM
RankorCity
Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:04 pm
#6
ouch...
some quick math indicates the following in DPS:
3.0 speed, 482-800 = 1300 dps, or about
4.2 speed, 641-1064 = 1409 dps, or about
thats assuming you hit everytime
Basically getting outdamaged by Pistoleers....
I love my Commando char, but....Wow
Hellshot
Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:16 pm
#7
Nice work on the numbers. It would be nice to have a spread sheet showing the avg dps of the most common weapons, including the laser rifle, t21, scatter pistol, geo pistol, dx-2, power hammer, vk, stun batton (not to sure about this one, etc. We could give this to garvin for the confernce.
RazerWolf
Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:33 pm
#8
Hellshot wrote:Nice work on the numbers. It would be nice to have a spread sheet showing the avg dps of the most common weapons, including the laser rifle, t21, scatter pistol, geo pistol, dx-2, power hammer, vk, stun batton (not to sure about this one, etc. We could give this to garvin for the confernce.
You mean the one I just finished doing for all the ranged classes?
Message Edited by RazerWolf on 08-17-2004 12:42 AM
Page 1 of 1