Commando Archive
Thread: My template was master commando/master rifleman, but now wondering...
Thunderheart wrote:Thats a good question. The versatility of the SWG combat system is so that you can mix and match.So give some thought to which hybrid combo you want to go with. Ask around and see what works well. Just remember that defence mods won't stack like this when the balance is done (because its caused a lot of unfair combat situations.)
It seems to me that these two asssertions are at odds with each other. I agree very much with the first one. I play this game because the combat system is very interesting and, for the most part, really fun. It is within this system that I wish to "personalize" my character. I am not a "social" player, and I'm not interested in color-cordonating my armor, collecting badges, etc. If I can't stack defensive mods between classes, what makes my character any different (as far as combat play-style is concerned) from any other character who has mastered the same Elite profession?
I'm currently working my way up the Bounty Hunter skill tree. Since BHs only have 33 skill points after they get to master, I decided that I wouldn't take Carbine or LLC skills, so that I could put my extra points in Pistoleer skills. Without Carbine or LLC, I won't be much help in a group against tougher creatures with TONS of HAM or armor. I'm fine with that, since I enjoy doing PC vs. NPC missions and plan on dabbling in PvP soon. In effect, I've used the versatility of the systm to create a character that I enjoy playing.
It sounds like all of that is going to be thrown out the window. Will my Pistoleer skills not stack with my BH skills? If so, how do I differentiate myself from other BHs? Pick a different armor color?
A good point Halmet.
Personally I think that it'd be better if it were a Doctor's skill called "Treat Burns" or something to that effect.
And the more I think about it, the more I feel sure that it ought to be a Doctor's skill rather than Medic. Having a Doctor in a group is a powerful advantage, and ought to stay that way. I'd have no problems at all with a Doc being able to remove the flame DOT.
I would however, have a big-tim problem if any low level Medic can do it.
Thunderheart,
I was wondering what the situation on Wookiee's is at. Most commandos can 1 shot me at close range, while with their 65% heat resistant armor I can't even hit them for 1/3 of their health. (I'm also a commando) Do you have any plans to add on low protection to Wookiee Battle Padding or any other sorts of clothing?
So, here is the real question, can a commando ever take a rifle/ tka/ fencer? Even with intimidate, I never hit more then 1 in 6 shots. and running around in PVP I never hit 1 in 10. So I have now dueled 11 different people with those templates. I have never won yet. Now do not want to nor expect to be a PVP god. But can I at least win one? I had a guy prone out, and crawl around. I stood 3 meters from him, kneel, aim, and miss 6 times. Come on. I have now show 68 rockets at these guys.. 1 hit.
Are you saying that we all need to be cookie cutters? IF you want to reign in PVP you MUST be this template, or you lose. Now I am also a weapon smith for fun. So if I want to play in PVP, I need to buy another game and have two accounts.
IE if you want to be an individual, stay in your hole. You will lose.
I love SWG really and i dont post much because the game as a whole has been the best mmorpg out there but i am worried about the loss of stacking. I am in a guild that focuses on PVP, not with those who dont like it, but with other pvp guilds, we have a blast without being problem players.
My problem is this, we have put tons of work and figuring into being good pvpers, that is what we do. We do not make millions selling armor or food, we forego those skills for good fighting mods and some of our guys are legendary on the tarq server.
My char is Master TKA, almost master Pistoleer, and working on Fencer, awesome resists and i still get beat down. The point i am making is this is what we do and i think you will find it is what a lot of people do after playing the game since the first day, it is how we keep things fresh. If you completely eliminate stacking my mods are worthless, all players will have to be the 1 combat, Medic, Scout or Crafter Template and that will not be good for SWG. I know the first time one of us gets owned by the village architect because our defenses are gone you are going to lose more players than you are gaining, just a thought because as you work it out remember that some of us think a full combat player should have some advantage in combat.
Thunderheart wrote:
Thats a good question. The versatility of the SWG combat system is so that you can mix and match.
The commando is one of the most powerful (if not the most powerful) stand alone professions at the moment. There are a range of heavy weapons, but the flamethrower is probably the meanest weapon in the game right now.
Beyond that, it gets tricky. We are in the middle of doing a combat rebalance so the choices of what hybrid professions you are thinking about will effect your defense modifiers. Under the hood, SWG works very much like a PnP game. People choose professions, weapons, species and a bunch of other choices, and combat calculates all of those details during combat. You go into combat and the system makes your "to hit" rolls, your defense and "saving throw" rolls and counts it all up.
The tricky part is that currently, defense mods stack. This will change because there are some min-maxers out there who have really learned how to stack these defenses well and it confuses the issue. For instance, you might be fighting a guy who has "pistoleer" in his permatage who is also a commando and maybe something else. Depending on how a player stacks each profession defence mod will effect how easily you hit and do damage, and how much damage as well. Its not to clear cut when you are in game in a running battle.
So give some thought to which hybrid combo you want to go with. Ask around and see what works well. Just remember that defence mods won't stack like this when the balance is done (because its caused a lot of unfair combat situations.)
For all the rest of the folks who will come by this thread:
- Yes there will be a fire suppression tool for Fire DoTs. It only makes sense that if you have a weapon, you have a counter measure. Currently, you need water to put out a fire DoT and there are none, which is why many players have asked that there be one.
- No combat DoTs will stack anymore because some players were using them in PvP exploits and Combat Experience exploits. Players would run up, stack 3 or 4 fire dots on a MOB or another player and run away while the fire burned - - because there is no way to extinguish the fire. Then they would run back and fire a quick shot from a blaster and finish the kill. It was never intended to work that way.
This will change because there are some min-maxers out there who have really learned how to stack these defenses well and it confuses the issue.
It confuses the issue?That happens to be the absolute LAMEST reason that I've EVER heard used to justify nerfing anything. The confusion you describe, as with anything you can get confused over, stems from a simple lack of knowledge. One of the ways a human being acquires knowledge is by READING. And it doesn't take much reading in the skill-tree window to see how this game works. But since you and a bunch of others seem to be too busy spamming specials to be bothered with something as mundane as reading, let me summarize for you:
The result of all combat in SWG is the direct result of the hit / miss roll performed whenever someone or something attacks someone or something else. Where you say there is "confusion", I say one only needs to do a little bit of READING for clarification and all ofthis information is in the skill tree window. Besides your obvious skill vs accuracy check, the roll considers the following factors (and this is just an off-the-top-of-my-head list):
- Motion
If you are walking, your accuracy goes down and you become just a little harder to hit. If you are running, those effects are amplified. - Stance
If you are kneeling, your accuracy with ranged weapons goes up, you become harder to hit with ranged weapons, and you take more damage when hit with melee weapons. If you are prone, those effects are amplified. - States
If you are blinded, your accuracy goes to hell and you cannot change posture. If you are stunned, your speed drops as well as your substats. If you are intimidated, you can no longer dodge, block, or counterattack, and both your frontline defense mods (melee & ranged defense) as well as damage output are degraded. - Weapon To-Hit mods
Every weapon in the game has three of them; one for point blank range, one for ideal range, and one for max range. On a melee weapon, they are usually the same right across. On a ranged weapon, they can vary greatly. These are also considered in the hit / miss roll. - Combat Abilities
For the brawler, there is "Center Of Being" which boosts your defensive abilities for a short time. For the marksman, there is the "Aim" command. When used, it eats an attack roll and boosts your accuracy on the next. There are also a lineup of "tumbling" commands that boost defenses at the cost of being able to execute special attacks for a short period of time. For the sniper, there is "Take Cover". When used, it immobilizes you but makes you harder to hit. - Weather
Yeah.....rain & sandstorms degrade ranged weapon accuracy.
There are more, but this is enough to illustrate the point. When one uses the abilities found within the game, there's no template in the game that can render a person "unhittable". Test it for yourself....
(because its caused a lot of unfair combat situations.)
Unfair to who? Unfair to the ten people who've mastered a combat profession and a crafting profession who have a really hard time hitting the one person who's mastered a combat profession and dabbled up three other combat professions? Unfair to the TKM/Doc who spends 92 points mastering their "combat" profession when they can't consistently hit a Master Commando who's dedicated 248 points to combat skill? Unfair to who? Really...I want to know. The only rules of the skill system is that you have 250 points and that the elite and hybrid professions have pre-requisite skills below them. In light of that, I'd really like to know who this is "unfair" to...
Yes there will be a fire suppression tool for Fire DoTs. It only makes sense that if you have a weapon, you have a counter measure. Currently, you need water to put out a fire DoT and there are none, which is why many players have asked that there be one.
Ok....every weapon should have a counter measure. That makes sense....
But saying there is no water to put out the fire is an INCORRECT STATEMENT when ona planet other than Tatooine; there's water on EVERY OTHER PLANET. Also, swimming is a NO-FAIL INSTANT cure for the Fire DoT, unlike every other dot in the game where the cures sometimes require two or more usages.
No combat DoTs will stack anymore because some players were using them in PvP exploits and Combat Experience exploits. Players would run up, stack 3 or 4 fire dots on a MOB or another player and run away while the fire burned - - because there is no way to extinguish the fire.
And the "exploit" (as you put it) will stop when DoTs are unstackable? It only takes one /flamecone2 to start the fire DoT. It only takes one mind disease to eat the entire mind pool. It only takes one good mind bleed to put you in 1-shot territory. I rarely ever need to stack DoTs on someone in PvP; one will do. In PvE, indeed they were stackable and that made sense; could not someone have a left arm on fire without the right arm being on fire? Could not someone then have their left arm set on fire independently of the right? A more sensible and effective fix to what you people perceive to be the problem would be to simply make all DoTs take into effect armor resistance (and you could classify poison/ disease as 'acid' damage).
In any case, should this go live, then flamethrower BETTER be subjected to the following changes at the very least:
- First and foremost, the range onthe specials for the flamethrowerbetter be upped to 32m at the very least (I'd prefer 48m to be honest, but 32m is acceptable).
- Second, the DoT better start sticking to the pool that the attack hits in the first place; in other words, if I flamecome2 someone for 1100 points of MIND damage, the fire DoT better be burning the MIND pool.
Thunderheart wrote:Stacking DoTs that way is just way powerful.
Ya but It's fun, And balancing Might be great, But As long as fun stays out there.
This Post is mainly for Naraya;
You talked about fair, and what is and isn't. I have to admit I was one of those the complained about these stacking temps. I am master commando, Master weaponsmith (keeps me in rockets) bit of medic. I was always getting owned in PVP. I rock in PVE. I wanted to help my guild but was nothing more then a Faction COW. I would shot and shoot and miss every shot no matter what I used against them. Rockets, HPBC, Lighting cannon, FT, everything. If I hit one in 10 I was a lucky guy. They never seem to miss me.
Even if you are 3 times better then a single combat profession, a ratpack of 5 should be able to take you down. But time after time I see 6 and 7 of us lose to a single combat person. We simpley cannot hit them.
Okay i was gettign ready to just buy a second account and make a combat profession just so I could play with my guild. Then I ran across you post about how to play PVP against the god templates.
I must say, it works. I am going to have to pratice a bit with it, but I can see the potential now. I used intimadate, /aim, overcharge2, and run around buildins with people chasing me, so I could do a reverse and hit them with Flamecone2.
I still get owned 1 to 1 since I miss alot more then they do, but at least now I can hit a bit. so with 3 of us normal single templates, I think we stand a chance.
I think that is fair. If you take a god template, and we do not, and 3 of us make a fair fight, I am cool with that. do you agree?
One last question, what do you suggest on how to take out a rifleman? These guys still hit me too hard too fast. Even with a 80% comp helm on. I gave up on the heavy weapons, still miss too much. I also notice on the graphics you kneel when you shoot them. Should I kneel before to get better accuracy? or is it an auto kneel?
For everyone else like me out there that just got frustrated and felt worthless in PVP. Read the post on PVP. it works. I also got a full suit if really nice ubse 76% special kentic, now if I got the dizzy/KD against a TKA, I can usually last long enough with spice to get up and try to flame again, heal, and mabey even 1 more chance to flame. Usually thewy get pissed because they incap me and burn up themselves. better we both lose then them win. =)
Thank you again....... I am in your debt.
Zolac1999 wrote:
This Post is mainly for Naraya;
/emote looks around innocently...
You talked about fair, and what is and isn't. I have to admit I was one of those the complained about these stacking temps. I am master commando, Master weaponsmith (keeps me in rockets) bit of medic.
Hmmmm...
Master Commando = 169 pts.
Master Weaponsmith (assuming no other artisan skill) = 92 pts.
Something isn't right there.....
/emote scratches head in confusion.
I was always getting owned in PVP. I rock in PVE. I wanted to help my guild but was nothing more then a Faction COW. I would shot and shoot and miss every shot no matter what I used against them. Rockets, HPBC, Lighting cannon, FT, everything. If I hit one in 10 I was a lucky guy. They never seem to miss me.
This is primarily because with only Master Commando no other combat skills, your front line defenses are too low for the accuracy levels ofa master at any combat profession to miss very often. I'd guess that your melee & ranged don't top 60 and that is what a master marksman has in accuracy across all three weapon types. :/
Even if you are 3 times better then a single combat profession, a ratpack of 5 should be able to take you down. But time after time I see 6 and 7 of us lose to a single combat person. We simpley cannot hit them.
One who knows where I am weak can take me down utterly quickly. Ten who know nothing of my weak spotswill frustrate themselves trying.
Okay i was gettign ready to just buy a second account and make a combat profession just so I could play with my guild. Then I ran across you post about how to play PVP against the god templates.
I must say, it works. I am going to have to pratice a bit with it, but I can see the potential now. I used intimadate, /aim, overcharge2, and run around buildins with people chasing me, so I could do a reverse and hit them with Flamecone2.
Warcry is another devious tactic for two reasons; 1)there is no Def vs Warcry mod and 2) that 10 second delay is a pain in the ass to deal with when it lands, regardless of what you are. You can also get BE'd clothing to help your skill in this area. But it is wise not to spam it unless you're buffed because the HAM drain is severe...
I still get owned 1 to 1 since I miss alot more then they do, but at least now I can hit a bit. so with 3 of us normal single templates, I think we stand a chance.
I think that is fair. If you take a god template, and we do not, and 3 of us make a fair fight, I am cool with that. do you agree?
Hehehe. That raises many questions. Hmmm....
One last question, what do you suggest on how to take out a rifleman? These guys still hit me too hard too fast. Even with a 80% comp helm on. I gave up on the heavy weapons, still miss too much. I also notice on the graphics you kneel when you shoot them. Should I kneel before to get better accuracy? or is it an auto kneel?
This depends greatly on the situation...
If you encounter a sniper in a close quarter situation (like at a shuttleport or in a densly populated city), you have a slight advantage in that thesniper is shooting at you from a range that isn't so ideal (unless he's using a CDEF rifle...lol). When this happens, do not let the rifleman widen the gap and gain distance; the farther away a rifleman is, the more likely it is they will hit you.
If you are faced with the unpleasent experience of encountering a sniper while outside of range, you don't have very many options as closing to within flamecone range ultimately means passing through the ideal range of whatever rifle that the sniper is using. In that situation, the best thing you can do (if the terrain permits) is to keep line of sight as broken as possible while closing range. In densly packed cities and areas with lots of trees, this isn't very difficult to do. In the open field, better tactic is to stay back and use rockets as the ideal range on them is synonymous with the ideal range on most rifles.
And yes, kneeling previous to firing heavy weapons does increase the chance of successfully hitting your target.
For everyone else like me out there that just got frustrated and felt worthless in PVP. Read the post on PVP. it works. I also got a full suit if really nice ubse 76% special kentic, now if I got the dizzy/KD against a TKA, I can usually last long enough with spice to get up and try to flame again, heal, and mabey even 1 more chance to flame. Usually thewy get pissed because they incap me and burn up themselves. better we both lose then them win. =)
Thank you again....... I am in your debt.
/blush
/salute
