Commando Archive
Thread: My template was master commando/master rifleman, but now wondering...
Thunderheart wrote:
For instance, you might be fighting a guy who has "pistoleer" in his permatage who is also a commando and maybe something else. Depending on how a player stacks each profession defence mod will effect how easily you hit and do damage, and how much damage as well. Its not to clear cut when you are in game in a running battle.
Why should it be clear? The tag is for bragging rights, not useful information during combat. When you look at your mailman, how do you knowhe doesn't have Special Forces Sniper training?
The idea of not really knowing your enemy during combat (especially PvP enemies) greatly increases the risk involved in PvP. That's the idea. You can gleen some intel about your enemy by looking at his/her tag or their equipment, but you won't know the whole story untill you pull the trigger.
TechnoHic wrote:
OK TH, I got a big question here. If you look at defense stacking, ok, it does make some professions near worthless to try to fight a defense stacked opponent but I got 2 examples on opposite sides of the spectrum.
I am master commando, TKA 0-2-0-4, novicce fencer adn I got into 2 fights yester day.
One was against a TKA, less than 1/2 my skill points for master commando. OK, so I got him for the first incap. When he got up I missed him because yes we are very low on accuracy and he KD'ed dizzied me. I thought it was over but you know what eventually won me the fight? DOctors buffs, and those defense stacks, not an overpowered FT. So ok maybe defense stacks are a bit much but what about the need to be buffed to PvP? And if I invest 2 * the skill points, what does that give me? I would have gotten killed quick by a TKA. Wil I get more than a lousy 25 defense and little to none status effect defense? You see I didnt do it to stack, I did it to cover a weakness.
Now onto other situation that kinda goes hand in hand. Had a friendly duel with a master BH who had stacked pistol accuracy through pistoleer. My defenses meant nothing to him. I know there are people out there with a lot higher defenses than me but if you take away defense stacking, shouldnt accuracy stacking go away to? Also can be applied to our LP. Why is my weapon useless to me unless I stack pistoleer ontop of it? I lost this fight to the BH by the way, in fact we were both buffed, I popped some muon gold but yet I was incapped befor I saw the damage ticking down his HAM at all, and it stopped well befor he incapped. We both had composite armor on, I dont know what his was but mine was 80%.
The thing you devs do is take and not give back. Ok, so your going to do something with HWs, but they got charges, what will be my trusty weapon? You say the FT is too powerful, I suggest you fight while one of you has something diferent than FT commando. Maybe use a KD melee on the commando, you can land it in 16m easy. Or maybe try kiting the only ranged profession that can be kited. When you say you are both master commando in a FT duel, it is merely russian roulette. Who will get hit first rather than OMG this is so overpowered.
I love your sig by the way. After seeing enough commandos, I'd like that differentiation. I've seen the same problems with interacting like other classes, but in PvP, TKA's have never been a problem for me. A rifleman who could Deathblow from 78m away was, but that's another issue. However, I've never gone totally one-on-one with a TKA, since that's not what I enjoy to do.
All of my bonus mods covere vs-knockdown, vs-bleed, or vs-dizzy. I have 3 shirts that I'll equip depending on the sitatuation. Now, we'd be a lot more useful in combat if had mitigation that was useful when we were in range to do any of our specials, but that's another topic. 1-v-1 PvP will never be balanced. There's no way it can be, since the balanced does not mean equal. One class will have benefits over another, and as long as humans play this game, the cheapest way will always be exposed.
The problem with balancing the game on 1v1 method is that it gears the game and makes the classes less and less useful when working together. In a group, a commando does something very valuable while other combat classes can pick apart a target. I'd have to assume that with all the coming "balancing" that we'd be even less useful to a group past that first flame DOT.
The Flamethrower is our only good weapon, and it's the most powerful damage-output weapon in the game right now. However, it's also the only thing that makes commando worthwhile. Grenades are all a joke, and Acid Rifles have higher delays and lower damage, so there's no logical reason to use them. Even our Rocket Launcher is a about a 30% miss-rate at level 4. Given what they cost to make and use, that's insane. The launcher is great if you're pistoleer, but I only use mine when I'm holding aggro and don't want to hurt something to bad, so the other members of my group can get XP.
I'd welcome balance, but only if it balances our profession so the other two lines are useful. If we're looking at a CH-style nerf that's going to more-or-less erase the commandos from the map, please go fix Pikeman first. After all, they can't possibly get downgraded any more.
But until then... fear the commando and not the gun they have. (like I said, I don't hunt alone)
Thunderheart wrote:
Psykeman420-HS wrote:
Thundeheart, i know you read alot of posts, i know that combat revamp is on the way but take these to heart.
1.) Commando needs revamped
2.) Pikeman needs major and minor changesIt doesnt get in the way of my fun though. Last night JustG and I were on TC. We are both master Commandos and we dueled to test the FT damage numbers and DoTs - - of course he didnt tell me he had a dev invulnerability script on...heh heh...he torched me in a cantina (The DoT's stacked and from a fresh healthy state, I incapped, came out, incapped, came out and incapped and died because the DoTs kept burning - - thats the PvP exploit. 2 or 3 commandos will run up, stack the dots and players and mobs in PvE alike just burn burn burn...its just not fair).
So the impression I get here is the stacking change is being based on commando DoTs, and pikeman is being mentioned to prove the devs still know how to spell the word.
Instead of having two commandos duel and basing decisions on their uncurable flame DoT, I'd like to offer two courses of action:
1) Introduce the flame "stim" to your duel, see how it affects the situation.
2) Have a master pikeman using two bleeds duel a master commando who only uses one flame DoT. I don't think it takes a psychic to predict the commando is still going to win easily.
Nerfing what I agree is a currently overpowered flame DoT with a broad-stroked change to all bleeds doesn't solve anything. It just makes everyone who's not overpowered (i.e. pikemen) all that much weaker.
This is a strange definition of balancing when you see one overpowered situation (stacked burns in PvP) and make a broad-sweeping change that weakens even the most underpowered classes. Think of it this way. In terms of combat effectiveness let's arbitrarily give commandos with two flame DoTs a rank of 100, but you want them to be no higher than 80 for PvE purposes. The stacking change effectively drops them to 80, problem solved.
However, not every class is the same. Let's say pikemen are at 50 (also arbitrary, but you get the point that we're not on the same damage level as a commando) with their bleeds. Since the change is applied to all DoTs and not the one that's the major problem, pikemen also take the hit, brining them down to 30.
Broad strokes leave the powerful powerful, and make the weak weaker.
In a nutshell, if you really believe the stacked fire is the problem, don't allow fire to stack. There's no reason to take down everyone else in the process. Better yet, don't take anyone down, just create the appropriate countermeasures and level the playing field that way.
Sebana1 wrote:Well, this is actually really disappointing...I decided to become a mod stacker for PvP, but I ended up loving tanking for my friends...My defensive mods make me a great PvE tank too, unbuffed, unarmored, I tank 3-4 tough mobs at once, which is nice 'cause docs aren't always around to buff (need buffs to wear my armor heh)
To follow up on Cniht's comment this is another kick in the junk to all Wookiees. Stackable defense mods were the only thing I have to look forward to after hologriding to make my Wookiee able to even compete! With doctor/dancer, food, and spice buffs encumberance is a joke so an armored foe gets the upper hand. The supposed 'extra wookiee bonus' in our HAM is not even noticeable even without buffs.
Removing stackable defense mods, along with no armor, make Wookiees the laughing stock of SWG. Everyone knows that Bothons should reserve that seat!
you saying that it makes combat unpredictable to me is a good thing, I shouldn't be able to just look at everyone and know if I could kill them or not... (which you can still mostly do now)
Not knowing exactly what your opponents are capable of thanks toa misleading name flag is just fine and probably even correct. How many black belts are out walking around advertising the fact and how many are just there and you wouldn't suspect them. It goes to show that just b/c a master dancer flag is on the person could easily be a TKM....and the acrobatics and such would make sense to cross over.
I agree! PvP should be a risk! It should be exciting! Taking away these hybrid templates makes it mundane..It also brings alot of variety to the characters that we wouldn't have any other way.
Mirek wrote:
I vote to keep stackable defenses too... if someone invests the skill points they should get the defenses that go along with it...
you saying that it makes combat unpredictable to me is a good thing, I shouldn't be able to just look at everyone and know if I could kill them or not... (which you can still mostly do now)
annelid0 wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
Psykeman420-HS wrote:
Thundeheart, i know you read alot of posts, i know that combat revamp is on the way but take these to heart.
1.) Commando needs revamped
2.) Pikeman needs major and minor changes
It doesnt get in the way of my fun though. Last night JustG and I were on TC. We are both master Commandos and we dueled to test the FT damage numbers and DoTs - - of course he didnt tell me he had a dev invulnerability script on...heh heh...he torched me in a cantina (The DoT's stacked and from a fresh healthy state, I incapped, came out, incapped, came out and incapped and died because the DoTs kept burning - - thats the PvP exploit. 2 or 3 commandos will run up, stack the dots and players and mobs in PvE alike just burn burn burn...its just not fair).
So the impression I get here is the stacking change is being based on commando DoTs, and pikeman is being mentioned to prove the devs still know how to spell the word.
Instead of having two commandos duel and basing decisions on their uncurable flame DoT, I'd like to offer two courses of action:
1) Introduce the flame "stim" to your duel, see how it affects the situation.
2) Have a master pikeman using two bleeds duel a master commando who only uses one flame DoT. I don't think it takes a psychic to predict the commando is still going to win easily.
Nerfing what I agree is a currently overpowered flame DoT with a broad-stroked change to all bleeds doesn't solve anything. It just makes everyone who's not overpowered (i.e. pikemen) all that much weaker.
This is a strange definition of balancing when you see one overpowered situation (stacked burns in PvP) and make a broad-sweeping change that weakens even the most underpowered classes. Think of it this way. In terms of combat effectiveness let's arbitrarily give commandos with two flame DoTs a rank of 100, but you want them to be no higher than 80 for PvE purposes. The stacking change effectively drops them to 80, problem solved.
However, not every class is the same. Let's say pikemen are at 50 (also arbitrary, but you get the point that we're not on the same damage level as a commando) with their bleeds. Since the change is applied to all DoTs and not the one that's the major problem, pikemen also take the hit, brining them down to 30.
Broad strokes leave the powerful powerful, and make the weak weaker.
In a nutshell, if you really believe the stacked fire is the problem, don't allow fire to stack. There's no reason to take down everyone else in the process. Better yet, don't take anyone down, just create the appropriate countermeasures and level the playing field that way.
Maybe it's just me, but aren't you comparing apples and oranges here? There's nothing at all that says all characters and classes will be equal. For example, a Master Pikeman expends 92 Points total to Master their profession and nothing else. A Commando, if they take nothing else... expends 169. Not quite double that, but close.
This game is not about single classes, otherwise you'd only be able to take on one at a time. You're also comparing amelee attack to a ranged one.
Why wasn't the Pikeman question answered here? Because this was a thread about commandos, and commando combinations.
Thunderheart wrote:
The tricky part is that currently, defense mods stack. This will change because there are some min-maxers out there who have really learned how to stack these defenses well and it confuses the issue. For instance, you might be fighting a guy who has "pistoleer" in his permatage who is also a commando and maybe something else. Depending on how a player stacks each profession defence mod will effect how easily you hit and do damage, and how much damage as well. Its not to clear cut when you are in game in a running battle.
So give some thought to which hybrid combo you want to go with. Ask around and see what works well. Just remember that defence mods won't stack like this when the balance is done (because its caused a lot of unfair combat situations.)
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