Commando Archive
Thread: My template was master commando/master rifleman, but now wondering...
Thunderheart wrote:
It doesnt get in the way of my fun though. Last night JustG and I were on TC. We are both master Commandos and we dueled to test the FT damage numbers and DoTs - - of course he didnt tell me he had a dev invulnerability script on...heh heh...he torched me in a cantina (The DoT's stacked and from a fresh healthy state, I incapped, came out, incapped, came out and incapped and died because the DoTs kept burning - - thats the PvP exploit. 2 or 3 commandos will run up, stack the dots and players and mobs in PvE alike just burn burn burn...its just not fair).
Um, as a flamethrower weilding-Commando, I don't like being called an exploiter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all the leveled Bleeds stack at some point?
Plus, if you use FlameSingle2, you can slap that on someone, and they will go down. They are incapped, come back up, incap in the next click, up, incap and be dead. That's with just that particular attack. The only time I tend to "stack" and exploit, as you call it, is when I'm playing crowd control. I smack the most dangerous target with FS2, and then FlameCone1 anyone standing close to them. The Specials do more damage, even though they take far more time, soI concentrate on them.
Now I'm an exploiter because I use my own specials? Should I expect a ban for this design flaw? Or should I just drop commando (mind me, this is not sarcasam, I honestly want to know). My tactic above means that I'm cheating in PvP and PvE because I'm stacking two burns on a target.
I enjoy being a commando, enough that admist the holo mess I've gotten it twice. A revamp would be welcome, but almost all of the professions out there believe they need a revamp.
Freesun wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
- No combat DoTs will stack anymore because some players were using them in PvP exploits and Combat Experience exploits. Players would run up, stack 3 or 4 fire dots on a MOB or another player and run away while the fire burned - - because there is no way to extinguish the fire. Then they would run back and fire a quick shot from a blaster and finish the kill. It was never intended to work that way.
While I'm glad this change is going in, it seems a little unfair and almost a bit accusatory to blame the players for this change as well aslabel these tactics as "exploits." It might never have been intended to work this way by the development team, but from the player's point of view, the above description seems to be precisely how they were intended to work.
How do you think most people used the majority of DoT effects in EQ and other games? I don't appreciate being called an exploiter in so many words for having used the methods to kill things which you directly provided.
I think you should revise this statement. It should read: "No combat DoTs will stack anymore because the stacking was never intended and it was a poor implementation given the constraints of our combat system." Take a little responsibility, please.
I agree because "exploiters" get banned now adays ya know.
One thing to keep in mind is that TH means exploit according to its definition, to take advantage. An example would be "My group came upon a lone <member of the opposed faction> and exploited the fact we had him out numbered to quickly kill him."
There are some good things for commandos in this dot stack change. The fix is that a commando will not be able to stack all burns, same applied to all professions that get dots. More than one commando, grouped or not, should still be able to apply their best burn and have it apply to the same target, before the best dot of that type applied.
To be honest, in PvP vs players and in large groups, I would never try to stack a burn on another player, I would dot target(s) and then look for more. Any player that has flamesingle2 applied to them willincap regardles of buffs unless they get focued medical attention and/or take themselves out of the fight. If I saw a clump, I would cone, if I see a single, apply a single, and then move on to the next. When you are in PvP, especially large groups, the best idea is apply pressure to the opposition, the more people on fire, the greater the pressure. Even with these changes we can do so very well, and in addition, now I don't have to concern myself with what burns have already been applied to a target, since my one burn applied to a target will apply and before it would not.
With this fix, commandos have actually become more powerful in group PvP than they were before. Now I can flamesingle2 a target and you can do the same. No more, I see a target that I haven't hit yet, but its already burning, what should I use questions, use the best shot you have.
If you can't see the advantage of more than 1 commando being able to apply there best burn to the same target, of not having to be concerned what burn may have been applied to already burning target then the only thing you are concerned about is solo play, and like I said before, what you can solo is unimportant.
We have no info yet on how FE's will work for players burning, but I highly doubt it will be free and easy to use for a player in a fight. Like combat medic mind heals it will require significant delay and HAM cost. The role they will fill is preventing incap and/or further wounds to a player that has won and is safe from a fight with a commando. You will not see someone burning, shooting at you every second, using a FE and then only pausing for a second to do so while we wait 8 seconds to reapply.
I was very pleased to see TH indicate that using other classes defensive strengths to create an offensive unhittable juggernalt is to be addressed. When you improve your skills with a weapon, the improvements are limited within that class, but you can go outside that class to improve defense regardless of weapon used. This affects balance in PvE and PvP both. To be quite honest, there is a point in the current math of the game where defensive abilities acquired make make any offensive skills meaningless, situations where you need an overwhelming advantage to be successful against a single player.
One 'simple' way to address the stacked professions is to tie in defensive bonus to the weapon in use.
Right now , my main is a master brawler, master pikeman, TKA, Fencer and Medic. I used to have scout, but dropped for a few more defences.
And... I can clear the crystal caves, SOLO. I can solo a Peko Albatross, and with just one Commando buddy, can take out Canyon Krayts. Oh, can easily solo a Juvenille.
Warcry 2 can be spammed- it seems too powerful as a result. Maybe once per 10 minutes?
KD/Dizzy can easily be 'fixed' if when using the /stand command and are already standing it does not knock you down again. That's how the NPC monsters deal with it- 2 seconds down.
DOT's are a interesting animal. I agree that players should only get one type of DOT , but possibly the higher level ones can do a little more damage. 4 stacked flame DOT is a bit 'nuts'. Though I empathize it's the commandos main strength- I'd rather see consumable weapons like grenades and rockets do a LOT of damage! Make commandos the true demolition experts they should be. Some demolition charges for turrets etc...
Ren
What needs to be applied is the law of diminshing returns. For example going from zero defense to 10 costs 10, to go from 10 defense to 20 defense costs 20, or twice as much. Or maybe if you have box x in a skill in imparts a maxium range or melee defense of x or x% more. Instead of getting plus ten melee defense for a box you instead get a plus 10 to melee or a plus x% improvement to melee defense if melee defense is equal or better to y, no more I have 200+ melee defense 200+ range defense builds. Like the max accuracy mod that is already in for all weapons, there should be an enforced ceiling for defense mods as well.
Other things, if you are in combat against more than 1, your defense rating decreases instead of being universial to all attacking you. Maybe facing could be applied to attacks, from the side less, from behind even more.
Renairdor wrote:
One 'simple' way to address the stacked professions is to tie in defensive bonus to the weapon in use.
Right now , my main is a master brawler, master pikeman, TKA, Fencer and Medic. I used to have scout, but dropped for a few more defences.
And... I can clear the crystal caves, SOLO. I can solo a Peko Albatross, and with just one Commando buddy, can take out Canyon Krayts. Oh, can easily solo a Juvenille.
Warcry 2 can be spammed- it seems too powerful as a result. Maybe once per 10 minutes?
KD/Dizzy can easily be 'fixed' if when using the /stand command and are already standing it does not knock you down again. That's how the NPC monsters deal with it- 2 seconds down.
DOT's are a interesting animal. I agree that players should only get one type of DOT , but possibly the higher level ones can do a little more damage. 4 stacked flame DOT is a bit 'nuts'. Though I empathize it's the commandos main strength- I'd rather see consumable weapons like grenades and rockets do a LOT of damage! Make commandos the true demolition experts they should be. Some demolition charges for turrets etc...
Ren
Warcry 2 only really Works with BE Clothe.
KaptainKrude wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
- It only makes sense that if you have a weapon, you have a counter measure.
Ok, then where's my "smelling salts" to cure dizzy/KD?"Eye drops" to cure Blind?"Alcohol" to cure Intimidate? (hehe, think beer muscles)Etc, etc, etc...
he is called Doctor
KaptainKrude wrote:
shutout wrote:where does it say that anyone can use a fire extinguisher? if you have the link, please post it so that i can bring myself up to date. not a flame, i am genuinely curioius. as i thought it was, they haven't said who or what can use the fire extinguishers yet.
KaptainKrude wrote:
shutout wrote:Doctors have cures to all of these. so do squad leaders.You're right that they do, but the proposed solution to Fire DOT is a craftable "extinguisher" usable by anyone and a craftable food "Flame Out" that again can be used anywhere, anytime, by anyone.Well, when this first was discussed it was mentioned that it would most likely be a craftable "tool" similar to weapon/'armor repair tools. I tried to find the discussion, but couldn't find it.
Anyway, I DID find some newer, more useful info in the Doctor forums. This is a dev response to the issue:
"· A cure for the On Fire state (listed here, although most folks think this ability should be available probably in the Medic levels.) "
So, I guess that they're looking into making it a Medic skill, which is a relief.
I hope that they keep it high in the Medic tree, maybe even Master. If it goes into Novice or low in the tree it'll still be too easily available.
Send the devs back to school so they can learn what to do when you catch on fire. Namely, Stop, Drop, and Roll! No medic needed. No extinguisher needed, just dropping down and smothering the flames with your own body and the ground beneath you. That's what you had to do in the olden days or you burned to a crisp.
Thunderheart wrote:
...The commando is one of the most powerful (if not the most powerful) stand alone professions at the moment. There are a range of heavy weapons, but the flamethrower is probably the meanest weapon in the game right now....
um....excuse me? Does the fact that half the profession is useless mean anything? Does the fact that the flamethrower is the only usefull weapon right now, and wont be after this next patch mean anything? Does the fact that we have hardly any defensive mods mean anything?
For all the rest of the folks who will come by this thread:
- Yes there will be a fire suppression tool for Fire DoTs. It only makes sense that if you have a weapon, you have a counter measure. Currently, you need water to put out a fire DoT and there are none, which is why many players have asked that there be one.
First off, like its our fault that there isnt water around all over the place. You make it sound as if lack of water is some sort of exploit that commandos are abusing and thus must be punished. I know thats not your intention, but I cant help but see it this way.
Also, does this mean that everyone should get some sort of disease/poison removal devise? If not then this fire suppression idea is completely unfair to commandos.
Note: many commandos have also asked to have the profession fixed, but all we seem to get is nerfed, while many non-commandos cry nerf the flamer and guess what......