Commando Archive
Thread: Reports to Commando Correspondent
The commando has at its disposal 3 damage types for non-consumed attacks. Heat (ap0), acid (ap0), and blast (ap0).
The commando has several consumed attacks from heavy weapons. Acid (ap2), Electricity (ap1), Energy (ap3), Blast(ap3)
The commando has several grenade types as well. Heat (ap1), blast (ap1 & 2), acid (ap0), cold (ap1)
To compare:
Pistoleer has Acid (ap1), heat, energy (ap1), kinetic, and stun.
Carbineer has heat, acid (ap1), energy (ap1 and ap2)
Rifleman has cold, stun (ap1), kinetic (ap1), energy (ap2 and ap3)
Bounty Hunter has acid (ap1), electricity (ap1)
RESULTS:
So there is no heat weapon higher than AP0. Nor is their a cold. Flame should stay the same.
ALL Acids have AP1 EXCEPT our Har and our glop grenades. Har needs AP1.
Nobody else has blast - I could be wrong. But once this is fixed it should with own specials and no pistol moves it should be AP1.
All the grenades need AP3 in their revamp. They are grenades after all.
If the low charges on the heavy weapons doesn't change, they as well need AP3.
So, thanks to the prereq of Master Marksman, a well rounded Master Commando can use pretty much all guns in game. By carrying one of each of the following with him he can attack nearly anything non-stop. Granted you do have to train novice pistoleer to get the dx2. Our only weakness is electricity which is compensated by our lightning beam cannon:
Kinetic - Striker Pistol or Tusken Rifle (ap1)
Energy - SR Combat Pistol (ap1) or scout pistol (best dps ap0), or Laser Carbine (best dps - ap2)
Blast - Launcher Pistol
Heat - Flamethrower
Cold - SG82 Rifle
Electrical - nothing - only LLC does this
Acid - Heavy Acid Rifle. and DX2 Pistol (ap1)
Stun - Tangle Pistol or Jawa Ion Rifle (ap1)
1. I completly agree. You nearly miss all the time with them.
2. LP I would really suggest that we get our own skills for it starting at Novice commando. Why not give us The accurancy/speed/damage of a Master Marksman for LP only adding some special shots and continue the LP skills on the tactics tree (beside I would rather prefer a LP tree instead of a acid tree, honestly does anyone use the acid rifle ?? In my eyes the Flamethrower is a lot better, allthough it gives us another weapon against resistance but why not put it in the same tree as Flamethrowerand rename it into something like offensive weapons)
I once again would like to adress the issue that there are some situations where the commando equipped with a Flamethrower stops running where he shouldnt (with LP it never ever happens). Is there anyone else who has noticed that ? (mostly happens in combat)
Lefthand fire weapons are the equivalent of special attacks, but they are also based around charges.. a rocket launcher does 1500 more damage than a t21 special move, but it also consumes a portion of the item..
by Holocron http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=480990#M480990
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Well I want say the argument why they will have put Ammo for Charged weapon instead burst the weapon.
They say this weapons are supposed to be a special attack but with charges. I all know special attacks dont waste the weapon until make it unless and its very hard do a good slice and get good minerals to make the weapons. If we want have good weapons, we need ever time had slicing and looking for new minerals.
I think isnt balanced we had waste time and money every time we use a special attack(remeber they are it)
Then if the weapon use ammo they still using HAM every time we shoot a charge, but we will not have all time slicing and looking for minerals when we need a good weapon.
Ok, I've munitions 3 and 2 experementation points. Just enough to be dangerous. Allthough not experementing seems to do better on the average. Results below are from stuff I grabbed quickly and wern't of very good quality. ( My Junk pile.) But they got on average 0-20% depending on what part it was before experemetation.
Cryoban C22 C12
AP 1 1 0
Typ Cold blast Blast
AS 6.6 4.3 3.9
Min 223 239 148
Max 502 733 346
Rad5.0 7.0 5.0
Wound 9.1% 9.49.4
PtBlank-16-14 -14 @0m
Ideal -2 +1 +1 @10m
Max -47 -36 -37 @32m
H 5498 71
A 133 98 61
M 23 2216
Thermal Detonator: Unable to make due the fact that it still requires Thoranium Steel. I don't have it. I've never seen it. I have the Skevon R-Gas, though; even if it's no longer required.
Testing: Cryoban: 735,617,494,281. Combat spamm. Not as done to the mob. C22: 765, 897, 1074, 769 ( 961 to mob ), 515 ( 644 to mob.) C12: 260.
During testing, I threw most at 11m. At Pt. Blank ( because the bunny stood on my foot while I used up the C12's ) nothing worked. Yes, they fixed combat spamm. Now there is none. Not even you miss. Allthough, there is some that you still avoid the blast while still not getting a hit/miss message. For the most part, the grenades just dissapeared and after my queue was epmty of them I started firing my gun. Hard for me to judge delay times when I have to do it with the grenades just dissappearing. But it seems that what was before is still holding: Delay doesn't matter; you throw the same speed no matter what. Before, craftable grenades had 0.9 or 1.0 speeds. Drops had 3.6-6.8 and neither affected my attack speed. Grenade powerups didn't help before. Also, KD and posture change before this patch caused the 'drop it at your feet' problem. Haven't tested it yet. Need someone to KD a mob for me. ( Ugh.)
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AS seems locked at 8 seconds still. ( 2 x 4 seconds. shrug.) I'll look at this again when I get someone on to keep a mob occupied.
Experementation on warhead fuses -STILL- causes them to go wierd. Can often get a +5 min damage from a failure, while a good success causes like min to go from 2to 0 and max from 3 to 6.
They're all a pain to still use. The target runs up to you, and you can't stop from dropping the grenade at your feet. The 10m ideal works w/the mods on the C22, but not the Cryoban. You'll miss alot at 25m. And at 10m, you're in melee plus only have a 5m safety margin from the blast zone.
<Resposted from 09-04-2003 06:29 AM >
Haven't bothered making better grenades as in that it's a waste to try to throw them.
LISTING OF KNOWN COMMANDO ISSUES – in no particular order
1. Lack of definition: What exactly we are and are not supposed to be has never been said since the changes in beta. STATUS: With the new changes we are devastating in short range. Still some depth lacking, but it's a wonderful start.
2. Inadequate Armor Piercing. There is a question to the AP value on several weapons we have. All other acid weapons in game are AP1 except the HAR and glop grenade. Also, in light of 40 charges or less on the consumable weapons they all need to be AP3. Otherwise their time and cost to manufacture isn’t justified. STATUS: No Change
3. Launcher Pistol. In addition to the AP0 issue, there are no specials for this nor do we get any better with it. With the recent fixes to the rest of our weapons we feel a need for a better answer than get Master Pistoleer as well. As it stands a Master Commando duels a Master Pistoleer/Novice Commando and gets beaten with his own gun? STATUS: No change.
4. Crism Silicate Ore not removed from Proton Grenade spec. This gates not only making proton grenades but rocket launchers as well. STATUS: No Change
5. Grenade Revamp. There is a serious desire to see the entire grenade manufacturing and use revamped. It takes 5 factory runs to make one crate. This doesn’t seem bad till you consider it takes 27 minutes to make one five charge grenade. ONE! STATUS: No Change
6. Reduced number of charges on consumed Heavy Weapons. Prior to patch some had up to 200 charges on weapons. Now we are ranging 28 to 40. Considering the huge time involved to make them they are excessively costly. Can this be returned to 200 charges? STATUS: No Charge
7. Radius attack from consumed Heavy Weapons not functioning. Beam Cannons and rocket launchers with a radius don’t seem to be hitting anything in said radius. Not even a miss message. STATUS: No Change
8. Accuracies are wrong with weapons. Kneeling is more accurate than prone. As designed? STATUS: No Change.
9. Range modifiers for all weapons save Rocket Launcher make no sense. The range modifiers are supposed to indicate to the user where to ideally be when using the weapon. STATUS: No change. To give a few examples:
- Flame Thrower: +11@0m/-55@50m/0@64m. I can shoot it at 64 with no problem? Ideal should be 16m
-Heavy Acid Rifle: +16@0m/-13@35m/-116@64m At least this says to use point blank. But ideally I should be at 35m?
-Acid Stream Launcher:+1@0/+26@16m/-120@64m This reads like what the flamethrower and HaR should be, but not a launched consumable.
-Heavy Particle Beam Cannon: -120@0/+14@48m/-122@64m. This is exceptionally harsh. In 16m you go from +14 to -122.
10. Large Pause when initiating combat with Flamethrower & Har. If you are running you will stop to start fighting and then start running again. STATUS: No change
11. Two Different Accuracies for Acid Rifle. The +10 given at Novice Commando does not stack with those given by the Acid Rifle line. You end up having a +10 and a +70. STATUS: No change
12. Lack of use of unarmed line prerequisite. Not that we wish it removed, it’s just that absolutely nothing is done with it. STATUS: No change
13. NPC’s regarding Flamethrower as melee. If you start a fight vs a NPC with the Launcher Pistol, he will shoot back. If you switch to the Flamethrower the NPC will pull out his melee weapon and charge you. This also allows for excessive damage versus rifle wielders. STATUS: No change
14. Questions about the knockdown given to Bounty Hunter in Carbine 3. Reading the description of it implies it is a flamethrower attack. “Fire Knockdown: This ranged attack blasts the target with a quick rush of flame aimed at their upper body, which can cause them bowled over by the sheer force directed at them, causing them to be dizzy as well.” STATUS: No Change
15. Beam Rifle. No one has a cert for this. STATUS: No Change
16. Incorrect titles per column. These reflect beta idea of Commando which has since changed. Field Tactics: Artilleryman (?), Heavy Support Weapon: Expert Commando, Flamethrower Specialization: Grenadeer (?), Acid Rifle Specialization: Ordnance Manufacturer (?) STATUS: No Change
17. No Heavy Weapons Powerups exist. Short of the pistol powerups and grenade powerups, we have none. STATUS: No Change
18. Odd Certification for Acid Rifle. It says cert rifle acid beam. This doesn’t follow the format of any others. STATUS: No Change
19. Typo in the abilities description of Flame Cone2 in the abilities and commandos menu. It says to type /flameCone1. STATUS: No Change
20. Using Flame Cone type attack = no xp from additional targets killed. Only xp from targeted mob. STATUS: No Change
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So, thanks to the prereq of Master Marksman, a well rounded Master Commando can use pretty much all guns in game. By carrying one of each of the following with him he can attack nearly anything non-stop. Granted you do have to train novice pistoleer to get the dx2. Our only weakness is electricity which is compensated by our lightning beam cannon:
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Unless I missed something, the LBC is Acid AP1. It's a supercharged versoin on the HAR that's disposable. As far as I know, only BHs have Electrical type weapons.
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2. Inadequate Armor Piercing. There is a question to the AP value on several weapons we have. All other acid weapons in game are AP1 except the HAR and glop grenade. Also, in light of 40 charges or less on the consumable weapons they all need to be AP3. Otherwise their time and cost to manufacture isn’t justified. STATUS: No Change
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C22's are AP1. Thermal Detonators are AP2 and should be doing 1500 damage. ( Untested as that they still require Thoranium Steel.) Cryobans are AP1and arecold type damage.
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5. Grenade Revamp. There is a serious desire to see the entire grenade manufacturing and use revamped. It takes 5 factory runs to make one crate. This doesn’t seem bad till you consider it takes 27 minutes to make one five charge grenade. ONE! STATUS: No Change
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It does NOT TAKEFIVE FACTORY RUNS! Perhaps if you must have Protons grenades, or Imperial Detonators there are more sub-assys to make which is proper. C22's take 3 factory runs and can do 1000 damage at AP1. It takes only 120 seconds or soto make one by hand. If you want the high-end weapon, pay for it. I don't forsee any use in changing it.
I believe ivoni was referring to the rocket launcher which does indeed need poton grenades to construct it.
Stelsvik wrote:
FIVE FACTORY RUNS! Perhaps if you must have Protons grenades, or Imperial Detonators there are more sub-assys to make which is proper. C22's take 3 factory runs and can do 1000 damage at AP1. It takes only 120 seconds or soto make one by hand. If you want the high-end weapon, pay for it. I don't forsee any use in changing it.
Unless I missed something, the LBC is Acid AP1. It's a supercharged versoin on the HAR that's disposable. As far as I know, only BHs have Electrical type weapons.
--Yes I was trying to list non consumable guns. LBC? The acid beam launcher is what you are referring to?
C22's are AP1. Thermal Detonators are AP2 and should be doing 1500 damage. ( Untested as that they still require Thoranium Steel.) Cryobans are AP1 and are cold type damage.
--I was referring to the weapons in the Heavy Weapons support tree. They went from 200 charges down to 28-40. I'm not sure whare you are telling me with the grenade information.
It does NOT TAKE FIVE FACTORY RUNS! Perhaps if you must have Protons grenades, or Imperial Detonators there are more sub-assys to make which is proper. C22's take 3 factory runs and can do 1000 damage at AP1. It takes only 120 seconds or so to make one by hand. If you want the high-end weapon, pay for it. I don't forsee any use in changing it.
-- My point is that Weaponsmiths view making grenades as a massive waste of their time. A master weaponsmith gave me the timeframe to make the protons. And most certainly yes people want protons because you must have protons to make flamethrowers. But you are right about some of the rest.
Compare:
Scout Pistol - three
fragmentation - three
Cryoban - three
Glop - four
imperial - four
thermal - four
proton - five
It takes a massively more time to make one crate of grenades which can only be sold to one person versus the less time to make 100 scout pistols.
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Unless I missed something, the LBC is Acid AP1. It's a supercharged versoin on the HAR that's disposable. As far as I know, only BHs have Electrical type weapons.
--Yes I was trying to list non consumable guns. LBC? The acid beam launcher is what you are referring to?
> LBC = Lightning Beam Cannon
I've not seen any new ones yet; so it might've been changed in the last 'Big Patch'.
As far as normal grenades go, I've made crates of them ( C22 and Cryoban )for myself in a reasonable amount of time. Of course, unless I'm in a group where I can sit back and waste the time to toss them; you don't chuck as many as you'd think. In the case I'm just throwing grenades: I go through half a crate in around 2 hours. It's impossible to have enough in that case when they're not in crates.
The singular major inconveince of them ( besides they don't work, ) is that they come in stacks of 5 only. 35 grenades = 7 objects in inventory. And it'll go in an hour of just straight throwing. ( Or less.)
As far as normal use goes in which you'd want; of course use the Protons. They're the best. If you want the best, you'll pay for them. However, with the exception of the Cyroban; anything above a C12 is a good weapon. But once again, they go really fast.
If you're thinking of making the Rocket Launcher easier to make, it'd be more realistic to just take the Proton Grenades out of it totally.
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It takes a massively more time to make one crate of grenades which can only be soldto one person versus the less time to make 100 scout pistols.
The whole weapon craftingskill sets arescrewed like this. Why would anyone make a DL44 Metal pistol vs a Scout Blaster?
I saw this early on and got weaponcrafting skills so I could make my own grenades. I saw what people would charge for grenades because of the way the setup was. And I very much wanted to use them. It infuriated me when they took the optional sub-assys out and they were just unilaterally deleted from my character. I'm trying to come to grips with how I can make Disposable HWs myself and still do what I want to. It doesn't look promising.
The only thing I can think of to make any of this easier would be to put it all back into the Commando Skills. But in the Field Tactics for grenades and not the Acid Rifle line, while putting HW disposable weapon crafting skills in the HW support line. I would very much like HW crafting to be at the least moved from Ranged weapon crafting to Munitions weapon crafting. All the disposables would be in that one set as well as making it possible to be a Master Commando that could craft their own weapons. I'm more than irritated that SOE keeps saying it was moved out of Commando into Weapon Crafting due to "Beta players didn't like crafting" while hearing Commando was only in beta for 1 week. I know there'd be many people that wouldn't like to craft their own weapons. They'd want to buy them and not deal with it. Weapon smiths for the most I've seen don't want to deal with it anyhow. Those that make a few of the HW disposable weapons charge high prices not just because they can, but it is a lot of work. either way something like that goes, you'll have many complaints. Me, I like the crafting. It takes me out of the regular kill/destroy/deliver/run for your life grind. And I don't have to do it if I don't want to.
Thealternative that is easy: is to get the materials yourself and have a weaponsmith make a schematic for you.
Get your own factory and materials. Crank them out yourself. It doesn't matter how long it takes. You set it up, go play, and, come back in a few hours or the next day to set the next item up.
Guns :
Flamer - 350-910ish speed 4.7
HAR - 400-820ish speed 5.3
Range mods:
1)
Flame thrower has a wierd "bell" shaped accuracy.
My acuracy at 65M is realy realy good, if the target is standing still, I can actually get +10 on the mod number. At ideal range is is way negative,
at point blank is goes back to +0
With that said...
2) HAR sucks at long range.
Why does a Rifle suck at range and is realy realy good at close range (+7 point blank)?
Soooo, we have our flam thrower (crowd controll weapon) throwing flames realy accuratly at 65 meters away. While a rifle is best for point blank?
Seems these should be switch...Flamer up close rifle far away.
3)
HAR accuracy Modifiers.
Still +10 novice does NOT match up with the +15 in box 1 of HAR skill, (maybe other boxes as well?).
This could be the cause of my realy realy bad accuracy with the HAR (much worse than the FlamerThrower) Then again maybe those pointy sticks are just whizzing by the targets.
Graphics:
1)
Go prone....brings back memories of Quake
Both HAR and Flamethrower have a hunge graphic increase (though not damage) Made a few team members wet their pants when I went prone with the flame thrower
2)
HAR still shoots pointy sticks, pointing up.
This is just plain disturbing, even those pesky butterflies spit blobs of goo at me. Maybe is the sticks were pointing in the right direction
Personal:
After playing for a while with new weapons, I wish to retract my earlier post about accuracy. I think gaining better accuracy higher in the trees is a good idea, yes we are starting with a new type of weapon, so we should suck like a noob at novice. BUT we should have good accuracy at master, 60 or 70 is quite low, at least bring us in line with marksman accuracy (100?)
Later,
Tortza
Lol. Then you find crafters that decide to become specialilists:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Ahazi&message.id=39349
>C22 fragmentation grenades 308-1329 spd 4.8 5 charges each $400 per unit. or $9000 per crate of 25 (thats a savings of $1000).
At 100 uses, it's valid in that you can run one mission for 10k
>Heavy Particle Beam Canon 1965-3207 spd 4.8 between 29-32 charges $25k
however, that's still debatable, it is a 'special use' item and not as generic as grenades.