Commando Archive
Thread: How to deal with the 2.5x melee mod. From a Rifleman, I know.
Bzzt, wrong answer Mr. Valentine. All ranged support tree attacks work with the Flame Thrower now. This would include, Warning Shot, Suppression Fire, the "Tumble to attacks", and Overcharge Shot.
Most are horribly, horribly ineffective, but the Overcharge shot idea just might work, if be a bit costly.
Agruel
Master Commando/Kettemoore
Just a slight correction to the above post. "Tumble to" moves aren't actually attacks, making them different from the pistol's Kip-up, Roll and Dive shots.
Tumbling moves can be done regardless of what weapon you are holding, or even not holding. What they do is give the user a status icon, "tumbling", which supposedly increases your defense, making you harder to hit for 15 secs, but at the cost of not being able to execute just about any other special move.
The "rifles and heavy weapons are encumbering" argument may have some credence in real life, but this game hardly represents real life (I could write a book on that). The issue has to be game balance, and the x2.5 multiplier isn't balanced when you consider the other penalties.
Not to snipe at anyone, but the idea
"The "rifles and heavy weapons are encumbering" argument may have some credence in real life, but this game hardly represents real life (I could write a book on that). "
is fairly ludicrous.
Granted: Weapons designed for melee > Weapons designed for ranged attacks, when it comes to melee combat.
That said, since we're already looking at things logically... We've all seen the movies. A rifle, in a pinch, becomes a makeshift shield, a decent staff, and a damned fine if slightly overweighted club. And its not that much of a stretch that a rifleman could improvise a solution, at a slight cost to overall accuracy... that is, a bayonet... which makes a rifle into a viable melee weapon. (Take the term viable loosely.) The same idea could be extended to commando weapons.... especially for the FT and HAR which are not all that large compared to carbines and rifles.
And even if you disagree with that, thats why commandos have had extensive melee training. In short, neither riflemen or commandos should take this melee modifier... logically, maybe pistoleers should... i mean honestly, "pistolwhip"? Thats not a realistic solution to fighting a PC with a sword or a mob with many fangs and claws... but I don't think any CLASS should take multiplied damage from any attack form.... that should be left up to armor and posture.
In any case, the multiplier doesnt make a whole lot of sense... easier to hit? OK, but not easier to harm...... and it doesn't add fun to anyone's experience, so why is it there?
But thats an argument based on logic, so therefore invalid apparently, here in SOE land, where commandos are Heavy Weapon Support troops and pistoleers rape fencers in hand to hand. <--overexaggeration, but who would win, honestly? the Pistoleer, no question.... and why? They're both elite combat professions equal in skill point and supposedly purpose, right?
Anyhow, I've gone on too long...
Athein
maddogs wrote:
lol nightwolf u r gone nuts u usly right on the mark but u thinking that this 2.5x dam is alright ur nuts im asom with macros and i have one mad way befor this to swich to tk /vibs but even with that no matter wat i get hit that on time even when i kd them i still get hit that one time and im gone and think of this way if we are rifleneer give us flame specials at 64m lol come on we have to be within 18m therefore we are not rifleneer when the last time you heard of a sniper using a sniper rifle at only 18m thats stupid that close u use a uzzii lol or a pistol come on close rang attackers are not rifleneer i can keep repeating mysels
repeat after me
repeat after me lol
come on guys
THINK
Maddogs, it isquite impossible to repeat after you. Maybe i'd understand you better if you wrote in you native language. At least then I could just put it in a translator. I really am interested in what most people have to say about topics like these, but honestly,I just cannot take the time to decipher your posts. 
Looking over the thread, I find some posters hitting the nail on the head: we commandos are being hit hard where we are supposed to be the most effective by this atrocious patch. We are not riflemen, requiring range and distance to ply our trade. We are, however, Master Marksmen, which doesafford us some effectiveness at long range, though it pales in comparison to the rifleman (as it should). The commando is most effective at mob control, which this ridiculous patch has made null and void with the 2.5x penalty and armor travesty. I was bummed out last night when I was owned by some Baz nitches in a swift fashion, which never happened before as my *strategy* (yes, tactics involved here) worked very well and proved effective in most situations. Wearing good composite armor, I could close on a mob, take some hits, and get the job done. With tougher or resistant creatures, different tactics are called for...but Baz Nitches did not require special considerations in the past.
We shall see what happens. I doubt the armor issue was intentional...but if the melee penalty modifier is, then I'm at a loss to see the logic of it. Laugh as much as you want to, Ar'ien, but it makes as much sense as a rifleman getting similar ranged penalties while in cover. Doh.
SanTzu:
As has been posted elsewhere on the thread, using a mcro to switch away from your flamethrower after each attack does not stop the melee damage modifier from effecting you. You are still subject to the modifier until the flamethrower attack fully clears the combat queue (about 8-15 seconds if you're using specials and depending on the speed of your flamethrower).
I myself have had some luck using my Flamethrower, then switching to a non penalized weapon...but I still suffer the melee penalty for the first 7 seconds or so . I switch because I can't really more thanthree or four"enhanced" melee hits muchtime, so I'd rather take two hots from the mob, then switch to pistol (and take far less damage for the 3rd and 4th hits) and let the Flame DoT do it's work.
As I stated in my post to Holo...this means I'm actually shunning my Flamethrower when I'm in its ideal range, which seems perverse, but it does keep me alive.
Jeren_Sehn wrote:
SanTzu:
As has been posted elsewhere on the thread, using a mcro to switch away from your flamethrower after each attack does not stop the melee damage modifier from effecting you. You are still subject to the modifier until the flamethrower attack fully clears the combat queue (about 8-15 seconds if you're using specials and depending on the speed of your flamethrower).
I myself have had some luck using my Flamethrower, then switching to a non penalized weapon...but I still suffer the melee penalty for the first 7 seconds or so . I switch because I can't really more thanthree or four"enhanced" melee hits muchtime, so I'd rather take two hots from the mob, then switch to pistol (and take far less damage for the 3rd and 4th hits) and let the Flame DoT do it's work.
As I stated in my post to Holo...this means I'm actually shunning my Flamethrower when I'm in its ideal range, which seems perverse, but it does keep me alive.
Then that is a bug.
With rifles, as soon as it is out of your hands, you don't get the penalty. You can't attack during the delay, but you don't get the damage "bonus".
We ALL will fully support the removal of the bug, and almost all of us want the 2.5x removed from us BOTH, or changed to be posture dependent.
With "heavy's as melee's" fixed, I think y'all were pretty balanced. You couldn't hit us from far, we can't hit you up close. Looks balanced to me.
Khyras, On Bria.
Doctor/ Rifleman
"Wipe them out. ALL of them" -Devs to Riflemen
Ps: Thanks to all who 5-starred the first post. See, not all riflemen were/are laughing. Only a few on the fringe, suffering from "rifle rage": too many shots to the head (our guns) and too much radiation from the cloning center. 
This game is constantly changing. IMO usually for the worse as far as combat is concerned. Most of the changes make no sense. 2.5x damage based on the weapon you are holding... no sense in any galaxy LMAO.
The changes while frustrating add a challenge to the game. Constanlty having to adapt makes it more interesting for me at least.
The knock down timer caused me the most grief in PVE as my character is a master smuggler and Kds where pretty much all smuggler had going on in combat that and my pistol whip heh.
I am surrendering my ch skills and the scout hunting tree I only have 2-2-0-0 in ch in order to go commando and sadly I will only be able to master one tree in it because there is no way I am giving up 4-0-0-0 in medic or explorer ,running up a hill while in battle has saved me numerous times.
Yes it is going to suck not having a decent pet to tank for me and I will have to adapt tremedously in PVE without anything better than a rock beetle. Yes I should be able to have a tough tank droid everyone should IMO this is Star Wars or losely based on it heh.
From what I can see commandos have a pretty good assortment of weapons. True a lot of them are charged based and quite expensive but truthfully there are tons of easy ways to make money in this game and there alway will be.
I am looking forward to exploring the different stratagies involving the commado weapons and using my smuggler specials with a LP if nothing else fo the big explosion heh.
I read somewhere about Nunas being able to kill commandos and I laughed. Come on now if the nuna can kill you while you have your FT equipped then a very simple strategy would be to whip out your FWG5 and make that Nuna regret his breif meeting with you lol.
I always try to remember that this game will always change for better or for worse and when I figure out the effective strategy to apply it will change again.
Yeah that 2.5x melee damage penatly makes no sense if anything commandos should take reduced melee I mean they are unarmed experts yes? Sigh same with smuggler the unarmed unless you go TKA is just a waste of skill points and its even sadder that it actually seems to hurt us but such is life in this evolving galaxy.
In the end I will struggle I will adapt I will conquer. Then I will have to do it agian and agian and well you get the idea.
Happy Hunting
Gairon wrote:
And to the original poster.... have you ever tried to use suppression fire or warning shot with a flamethrower? Obviously not...
Ever try with a rifle? -70 to hit mod makes it fun 
Yeah, give a close range class a close range penalty... Gotta love them devs eh? Makes all kinds of sense.....
Khyras, On Bria.
Doctor/ Rifleman
"Wipe them out. ALL of them" -Devs to Riflemen