Commando Archive
Thread: Combat Balance
Ais
Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:37 am
#40
I'd change defence acuity to give a working dodge and counterattack bonus and make it so that the skill is deactivated in heavy armor, gives a nice bonus for not wearing armor but in certain situations the armor might be the better option but we take a hit for doing it.
Can't see why unamred toughness would be reduced while wearing armor though.
Can't see why unamred toughness would be reduced while wearing armor though.
Riquax
Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:51 pm
#41
Some of what im posting was probably posted i just didnt read all the way through and some of it i dont except for combat just stuff i would like to see for tk.
I would like to see as said was new damage types. It was sayed tk's were supposed to be powerful and they were sort of a group that watched ove rthe Jedi, We should be no where near jedi.
I think we should get knucklers fo rboth hands like one in one hand is a modifier and the other is the normal vk. We should also get ap2 or unlikely ap3 because if we are forced to keep kinetic we should atleast get something to help against higher mobs with high protection. If this feels to strong which now im reading it it does i guess if we get a good new damage type and maybe ap2 since combat balance the attack can be lowered.
We need more defenses if we dont get better attack because with really high defense that should balance us out. We should be able to tank most things and hold out longer in PvP against Fencers and othe things.
Again restating the TK armor sounds kool we should get fast moving armor with protectiont o almost everyhting but some things dont ahve to eb to high like if they give lightsaber resist out we can get 5-10% maybe.
NJyankee4
Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:43 pm
#42
Well I agree with a lot of things that have been said on these posts. I would like to see tka defenses higher in the block/dodge area. And I know this comment has been worn out already, but the whole armor issue, I think tka shouldn't have to wear any armor, I mean it is a martial art. It would be very cool to have some kind of gi to wear(martial arts garb) or something that gives us a significant look, and also giving us a minimum type of protection against some kineticbased attacks. But stating that we are the fastest melee profession, we should be fast enough to block/counter attacks, I mean if the devs are going to follow story line at all, it was said that the tka could hold their own against a jedi, so if this is true, then we should be able to last a bit longer against, lets say a fencer, ect...
Ricossk
Bria
ITK5
Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:36 pm
#43
DrArgule
Keep up the good work man!
I would like to see what TKAs are about..a history..give us mission termianls..give us a reason to stay TKAs and not go Jedi.
And does COB work?
BabyRancor
Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:54 am
#44
Following is an excerpt from my post on the Combat Balance - there's a lot of other stuff in there that links in with this but for sake of space I'm just posting this.
Please see the link in my sig for the rest of the details.
7. TKA: A special-case scenario, unarmed damage should be lower on average than either ranged or melee weapons, but each attack should be faster. As with Jedi, martial artists wearing armour doesn’t really mesh with the concept. It would be better if Master TKA received a 25% resist to all damage types – a bonus that would be overwritten if the artist did put on armour. Beyond this, TKA should rely on their melee defence, melee toughness and a hefty Dodge skill (on par with Fencers) to keep them alive (Defensive Acuity should be replaced with Dodge). TKA should be fairly limited in damage types and armour piercing, but should have a lot of state effects to de-buff their opponents as they wear them down. Also, vibroknuckle-type weapons should simply add a bonus to unarmed damage, or replace the unarmed damage mod completely (not both as they do now).
Example
- Master TKA average damage = 75 points at 0.5 Speed
- Master TKA using Unarmed Body Hit (x2.5 damage), average damage = 281 points /
half second.
Cauil
Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:37 am
#45
I really like the idea of a TKA being able to function in this game without having to wear armor. To do this however we would need great defenses and a type of natural armor. Toughness is a start, giving us good dodge and block skills (which are in line with what a TKA should do) would also help. Of course these would have to go away the moment we put on armor.
We are supposed to get another damage type, the heat damage is okay. Our effectiveness in PvP will depend a lot on what they do to armor in my opinion. Currently I think an unarmored Master Fencer would get beaten by an unarmored MTK, however when you throw armor into the mix that flips. It should be such that this is based more on the techniques of each player, not just armor.
I would love to see more content for the TKA. I think that unlike all of the other combat classes (not including Jedi) besides Bounty Hunter, TKA should really mean something. The Bounty Hunter profession needs attention, but this is not the BH boards so I'll skip that. The TKA however is more than just a sword or gun wielding fighter. There are specific beliefs that a TKA is supposed to have. They are more than your generic warrior, lets see that.
Jenky
Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:52 am
#46
My vision for TKA:
Teras Kasi is the real tankers! Their fists, don't do a damage output in any way that a sword, staff or hammer/axe ever will. This should mean that TKA is the lowest damage output proffesion in the game! Hands are not effective killing weapons - An even though this is a hugh disadvantage, I think that Teras Kasi should have many other strenghts.
When close - Extremely great acuracy!
Speed - The best.. they dont weild anything heavy at all, so they are light and can punch very very fast!
And they are the best tankers in the game! Best defenses! They take the beating... They learn to protect their body through mental strength!
Also, I think it is TKA that should have dodge(?) Would it not make more sense that a close fighter that is fast and agile like tka being able to dodge attack? you cant block or counterattack with your hands, but dodge makes sense IMO!
Also I dont like that TKA is only strong if you have Trando! Trando got many unarmed bonusses... And I think its stupid that there are no other species who have bonusses to defense or something! Trando should not be the only good thing with TKA IMO! As far as i know a trando has: 10+ unarmed acuracy, 5+ unarmed speed and 10+ unarmed damage!... The only other spicies who has any abillities/bonusses that cancounter that, have to be zabrak!.. please give Mon cal, rodian, twilek, bothan and HUMAN(!!!) some def vs blind, dizzy, intermeditate, melee defense and ranged defense and so on...
If possible....
I would love to see more variations of TKA! Different styles..
What about a move that enhances damage... working like beserk, but only lets the play being able to use specials with it? It could be an special stance....
visual difference in stances would be awsome too!
And for the sake of the TKA: We all know that commandos and Smugglers need some unarmed content, but please dont make it like pistoleer, where BHs have the best pistols and smuggler has best pistolmove!
I would hate to have to take commando to use the best vibro knuckler in the game, or take smuggler to get the best tka attack!
But in the end, im pretty satisfied with TKA.
I would love to know more about TKA history, and make quests.. anything to make TKA more intresting
'
'-Jenky
JaveRel
Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:22 am
#47
I have always found it strange that Melee players were not given Ranged Damage Mitigation? I know we are brawlers to of course being good at Melee Mitigation makes sense but in the game world not as much. Our worst problem is kiting by ranged players or npcs. I hate having to chase things around I feel so stupid and I look even dumber. I think a bit of Ranged Mitigation 1 or 2 would be fine. I would even give up Melee Mitigation 3 and just have 2 from each personally.
Two lets see some moves to immobilized opponents that are not KD, or dizzy. I am tired again of chasing not players but really creatures when they get hurt. They tend to run away and I have to chase them. Its time consuming and frustrating to always have to chase down a wounded animal.
I want some sort ofUNIFORM we can be certified for that perhaps gives up bonuses like the Jedi. I don't like the armor much because I don't think it is right for the class. I would like to see some sort of Gee? (not sure how to spell it) for us that gives bonuses to our powers and acts as a sort of armor.
Perhaps a skill to also allow us to sense Jedi if we meditate. I know this is a part of the TKA but it would give us a way to work with BHs to counter the Jedi threat.
Also a type of DISARM skill would be nice. Make it so that they don't actually have to re-equip their weapon or actually have it disarmed but what happens is that they are delayed shooting it for lets say 5 seconds. Would be nice in a fight against ranged guys. This skill would only be able to be used though every 30 seconds or something like that. 30 may be a bit much.
How about a crippling move that would slow down a ranged guy trying to run away? I mean its plausible that we could hurt them enough to make them slow down giving us a chance to catch them.
Last I think TKA should get some terrain negotiation simply because we can and do move like lightning at master and should not have to be scouts to walk up a hill faster than someone else. We are physically superior to other classes lets see some of that with perhaps some negotiation skills. Nothing to out do a scout at explore 4 but at least an explore 2 or a bonus when going up hills.
Jave Rel
josfe
Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:47 am
#48
I need to speak up again as I see alot of posts suggesting the removal of armor for something else. While I'm not against the idea, as a Wookiee TKM that's been around since the start of the game I know what it is like to not have access to armor and all it's nuances. So I encourage you to think on this request long and hard.
Armor skill attachments and BE componentswill no longer be useable. So you can say good bye to any + unarmed combat/warcry/bleed defense or various other things you've paid for. Which brings us to the next thing, armor loot such as voritor scales, kryat scales, night sister armor, etc will no longer be useable by you, thus the high end content that you fight will offer you little as a reward (other than what you can auction such items off at). You will take 100% of the dammage when hit, even if you were to evade 50% of the hits that come your way you still takealot more dammage than someone in armor does.
Another problem is the issue of scaleability. Lets say the developers decided to give us TKA's a 50% increase to our doge abilities which allowed us to not wear armor to fight. Hypothetically lets say that this increase balanced us out well with the other armor wearing professions. Now lets say that new armor loot drops are added to the game with the space expansion, or from a new dungeon, these new armor loot components boost up current armor qualities by 10% thus causing imbalance with the previous dodge increase. 10% typically isn't enough to become noticeable, however after a few months of additions like this you'll soon be requesting that the developers re-balance the professions dodge abilities to compensate. Typically this type of change will take months & months to be implemented (For example see how long it took for wookiee armor to be added to the game, after holocron noted that wookiees needed to be addressed back in November of last year).
While the idea of not wearing armor is great in theory, it does not work well in practice. No matter the doge increase you will not be able to take on high level content even fully buffed. In effect you are going to introduce the TKA profession to the same problems that it took Wookiees5 months to have even acknoweldged, and8-9 months to get fixed.
Not wearing armor is not going to scale well for our profession, and it most likely will severely cripple us. Other suggestions such as iniate resists will need to be readdressed each time changes are made to armor lootwhich in all likely hood will turn into something that is broken each and every patch. Still other suggestions request something along the lines of jedi robes, while I do like the idea robes are one of the many things that make the jedi unique, it is a benefit of their profession TKA's shouldn't be trying to turn our profession into "mini jedi". If anything TKA's should have access to a more specalized type of amor or clothing, however that becomes something difficult to enforce because once someone sees a TKA wearing it they'll want it too, eventually we'll all end up wearing the same armor/clothing items again. And of course you can't forget the wookiees or the trandoshan TKA's who may or may not be able to wear any specalized TKA armor.
For those of you who really want to fight with out armor, take it off! As I've stated I'm a Wookiee TKM who's been playing this game since the start. I just purchased my first set of armor about 2 days ago. So it is possible to fight with out armor, however you need to be very careful about what you fight, and you pretty much have to avoid anything that can do 2k dammage in 1 hit (*cough night sisters cough*). So in effect you'll most likely never be able to take on any high end content alone, and even in a medium sized group you'll die pretty fast.
I hope that no one takes this as a flame, I'm just trying to make sure that some of the ideas proposed don't end up hurting our profession in the long run. It may sound like a great idea at first but I urge you to consider the above before rallying behind it.
JaveRel
Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:52 am
#49
The solution to no armor is simple. Give the TKA a sort of Gee or Robe like a Jedi gets but of course for TKAs. Why not giveout certifications for cool outfits that give us some sort of defense like armor does? It would make us unique for sure and give the ones who don't want to wear armor a cool outfit.
I don't think it would unbalance the game to give us robes lets say that are craftable by crafters and can have loot items put in them and of course skill tapes too. It would give the AR something new to craft and it could even be like armor in that some robes give different resistances. It would also have a cap at like 60% or something so it would be in line with the current armor. The one thing would be the encumbrance armor gives so maybe more like 40% or give the robe some slight encumbrances perhaps.
They have already done something good for no armor with the Jedi and at least TKA could benefit from a cool Gee to help us feel more unique and make the class better.
Jave Rel
Suhlak_D_arnh
Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:09 pm
#50
What is your vision for TKA? As of right now I see TKA as being a good support role, as thats what most people use it for, they usually just get it for the meditation line and or the defense line, then Master Fencer or something similar, so it seems to me that there is no real benifit of going just Teras Kasi as your main combat role. I
personally would like to see a change in this.
BasicallyI see Teras Kasi as more of an offensive class that is able to bring down our opponents defense through powerful status attacks and yet are able to hold our own.
Q2: The biggest concern I have of Teras Kasi, is the fact that we are limited to one damage type only, I know the new knucklers will be released after the combat rebalance but I think we should get at least a couple more damage types, that are not reliable on looting some impossible mob, only to turn around pay a million credits for the weapon. I really think we should get a restraint damage type as that goes along with being an Unarmed fighter, being able to restrain your opponent through defensive moves. Also I think that the Spin Attacks are very weak compared to most of the other professions, especially when most mobs are resistant to kinetic damage. Also I think that the combo moves need a little more tweaking, as do the leg hit and body hit, as they are pretty much used just as finishing moves and nothing more.
New moves? I would almost like to see something else in the meditation line other than powerboost and force of will. Since we are able to focus our inner energies I would almost like to see a "chi" based special that does high damage, possibly armor peircing, but with EXTREMELY high HAM cost. Also I think that our status effect moves are pretty weak ( stun and blind) and very rarely stick on defense stacked opponent, by the tim it does Im usually allready dead, so I would like to see maybe an Unarmed Stun2 and Dizzy2 as it only makes sense, as thats what we should be good at, bringing down our opponents defenses so we can take them out more easily with our higher damaging specials.
Old ones fixed? definately, read above....
Species specific moves? Definately especially Wookiees(who are supposed to be the strongest species in the galaxy). I would almost like to see some type of throwing move for Wookiees, as they are notorious for picking uptheir enemies and then tossing them aside.
Content? It would be nice to have an actual role in the game other than combat, I see Teras Kasi as more ofa "monk" type class who are not only good at combat but also a form of healer and philosopher. It would be nice to see some unique quests for our profession and maybe some badges proclaiming us asa Teras Kasi Legend or something similar. It would definately give players like myself something to do other than just randomly going out and killing things.... Also It would be neat if there would be player owned dojo's where we could practice, giving us a more definite role in the galaxy...
What about armor? Well with the up and coming combat rebalance where armor is going to be looked at and revamped, It would be nice to see some kind of natural looking armor for our profession, or even some kind of clothing that only Teras Kasi Masters could wear, such as belts, headbands, robes etc which would give us some natural resists, and we could only get it through content such as questing, instead of having to rely on Armor Smiths and or tailors...
I would think it would be really cool if we had some kind of flying drop kick move or something similar, that could be used as an alternative to lunge or Knockdown, as I was always perplexed that we diddnt have any of these to begin with....
VampyreD
Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:53 pm
#51
I would love to see a NPC of Arden Lyn, where Teras Kasi Masters could take neutral missions.
My thoughts
·A different type of damage would be awesome!!
·Fix Combo 1 and 2
·Teras Kasi Doju
My thoughts
·A different type of damage would be awesome!!
·Fix Combo 1 and 2
·Teras Kasi Doju