Commando Archive

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Onari wrote:
I've always hated the unarmer prereq, because I always wanted to use a ranged weapon and it felt like i was forced into the commando + TK side of things which I didn't really like.

I confess I havent read the entire thread, mainly cause it sort of turned into a mini flame war (not even big flames! come on guys we are commando! ). While I agree that as a commando one would need to be skilled in unarmed combat since weapons could break and such. But I would love a republic commando approach and get rid of the crappy massi-whatever- knuckler and put in the wrist mounted vibro blade as this is a MUCH coooler option (but keep in mind it would still be an unarmed "weapon"). Then adding some kind of quick thrust attack when an opponent gets in close, with good dmg on a medium timer. If you've played republic commando you'll know how helpful this weapon is. Anyway at the moment, even with all the changes that are going to happen I still hate the unarmed prereqs and unless something can be done like i've suggested above I will continue to hate it. Will this stop me from playing a commando? NO, will it stop me enjoying it? maybe a little. But I'll never turn my back on the commando profession!

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Haven't played that yet (bought the game, but I've been playing SWG too much to've even installed it yet), but I love that idea, give a close-in weapon that makes a great deal of sense to Commandos. Along with moving the massknuckler (can't recall the spelling either) into TK, and give Commando the blastknucklers. Where I think they both belong anyway. Who had the crazy idea of giving TK a packet of explosives attached to their knuckles, and Commandos a modified vibroblade anyway? Totally in reverse, I think. Next let's put the Vibro Lance inside Fencer, 'cause they have vibroblades anyway, and ooh, I know! Riflemen can have the powerhammer! Both use two hands to wield, right? Then let's have the medics dance to heal people (dance, Doc, dance!), and artisans tame animals, and...

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MariketheWookiee wrote:
master marksman is too much, that means we have higher requirements then other classes (all classes now require 2 lines to get the elite)

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Ranger is still needs Master Scout post CU. Scout/Ranger dosen't count to your CL.

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chessdemon wrote:

Wayell, I dunno...yah, hitting somebody with a rocket launcher might do more than hitting them with a lag pistol, but first, trying to code every single weapon's different melee damage when used like that (which I assume they haven't done with the 'pistolwhip' that I wish I could recall if that's really what it's called) might be a mess, and second, when you're dealing with weapons that aren't *meant* to be swung that way, it's gonna limit your ability some. Swinging a rocket launcher at somebody versus swinging a mace, for instance, one's balanced for such things, one definitely isn't, both will hurt when they hit, but my money's on the mace I guess you could make it a special for the weapon itself...I'd honestly rather see it useful for whatever you pick up, but that's just me Since the prereq for Commando is unarmed, not armed, what you say might be the better option, quite true. Wouldn't want to get anybody's panties in a bunch saying that if we have that, our prereq should be armed melee, not unarmed...not that I'd necessarily have anything against doing that, all honesty.

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Well, I agree it would certainly be inferior to a two-handed sword in it's accuracy and speed, but I don't think it would do less damage assuming everyone is armored. All of the cannon have rather unpleasant-looking geometries (that is, if you're being hit by them), and they wouldprobably weigh more than even the heaviest swords.

Regardless, I wouldn't expect a commando to best a swordsman with bash attacks, just as as I wouldn't expect a commando with an acid rifle to best arifleman.I just think it'dbe a hugeand very cool improvement over what we are currently scheduled to receive, though. Then again,the same could be said of a new melee leg with certifications and modifiers.

TK-132, I disagree: I think commandos are supposed to know and use heavy weapons, not all weapons generally. Strength, certainly, is needed to manipulate weapons as large as a rocket launcher or other cannon, but strength can be gained without unarmed training. I agree that commando should have a melee component, but Ithink what we have now is not enough.

Interesting thoughts, IdrisTycho. I rather like that loadout you're suggesting. How 'bout a little addition...something that would definitely help bridge the melee and ranged. I forget which Marksman tree has the pistolwhip ability (think it's called something else, but that's basically what it is), have an advanced version for Commandos, put it in the melee branch, it's a melee hit useable only with a ranged weapon equipped (or possibly even with EITHER a ranged or melee weapon equipped, or even barehanded?), with melee mods applicable to it. No clue what to call it...WeaponSmash? Who knows. T'wouldn't be a very powerful attack (not that pistolwhip is) or I wouldn't think so, but I can see a lot of uses for it, particularly if it has a knockdown component. Get whatever's closed to melee range off of you so you can continue flaming it, even if it doesn't do much damage the pause before whatever you're facing can get up and attack again could be very useful.

Only my thoughts

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IdrisTycho wrote:

Well what I meant was that most of the ranged weapons in commando get special additional affects that they do on top of damage. For example the Rocket launcher knocks down the opponent, the Flame thrower adds on a DoT, the Heavy Acid Rifle blinds, the Acid stream launcher does an area blind, and the particle beam cannon hits everything in a straight line, piercing everything as it goes. Even grenades have effects like slow, snare, blind, stun etc. Commandos have become the status affect kings.

Since these weapons do these extra things it means that when you fire your special attack you get this added benefit too! It makes commando weapons highly desirable. Because of this, the developers left out special attacks in our tree. We are expected to dabble to get the specials to make these things even better. To follow that trend I was suggesting that we could be given a couple of melee weapons that add special statuses to our opponents, and at the master commando box our melee weapon would perform an area-of-effect status attack against everything in point-blank range (<5m).

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Ahh, I see now, I get where you're coming from. You know your stuff better than I am (no surprise, haven't been a commando all that long I'm still learnin'). That would be cool, more effect possibilities...one of the things I enjoy with TK, being able to apply lots of states, and I've managed it before--funny how something that's stunned, blind, dizzy, intimidated, warcried, AND flat on its back on the ground dies pretty well when you pull out your flamer and cook it medium rare...

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TK-132 wrote:
Ok first of all there's nothing wrong with our pre reqs. Commandos are suppose to know and use just about any weapon. Thus we have skills in both Brawler and Marksman. Also you need to be erm rather strong to carry a Rocekt Launcher or any Large Weapon. Thus you need to be a strong person and that's what Unarmed is for.

Also what Commando doesn't know how to fight with their fists? That seems rather bad should some punk decide to come and punch and you just start crying because you can fight with your hands and you try to run away with your RL. No instead you should be able to smack the guy a little. What kind of Commando knows only to fight one way (Ranged)?

Seems hardly Commando like at all. however if you do go melee with Commando you get those ranged benefits that pure melee folks can't get you then become a little better at surviving in other situations. I see no problem with this. If we changed the trees any we'd be a Pistoleer or Rifleman. And why does it make any more sense for TKM to train in Swords or a Rifleman in ranged support if he doesn't plan on using raned support? It doesn't. So why don't we drop this. Tis silly to debate when we should be focusing on making sure the profession works in the CU and other core elements. This is hardly a problem compared to levels limiting XP gainage in other fields that you are new to and NPCs warping and not knowing what or even if your being attacked and Lairs and Camps not being attackable. These seem like problems to me with weapons giving out wrong XPs as well.

Why don't we focus a little more on the core things. Perhaps instead of bashing melee we could come up with some ideas to make it good Commando. Like Garvin said you don't just start with big weapons you work your way up using sidearms (The Launcher Pistol) and the Knuckler. Once you understand the cores of these skills (Gaining a Few Boxes) then you can start to properly use Larger Weapons.

I honestly don't think Commando would be as fun without melee. And if the Knuckler is good (I haven't been on since this weekend and am still Marksman 2,2,2,3 Brawler 3,0,0,0).

Also keep in mind we haven't seen all the changes in the CU. Like weapon modes and the changes to Death and Incapicitation. In fact the HAMs for a lot of MOBs haven't even been fitted yet like Nova Troopers. Lets see as full Commandos how this works out.

I too doubt many CU things but if ya think about it a little and maybe with some tweaking I think a lot of things will work out well.

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Wayell, like the regular knuckler, the Commando one is giving one-hand weapon XP right now, and seems to go by your 1H skills and no other prof skills (managed to get to Novice Commando last night at last, so I could try the stuff out)...which bloody SUCKS I can't tell how EITHER work well with TK or Commando either one if they don't work WITH the blasted profs they're certified in instead of AGAINST them! My accuracy goes DOWN with the VK Knuckler 'cause it doesn't use my TK skill, it goes by my 1H rating! Ditto the Commando knuckler! Who's ridiculous idea is this? They're trying to push everybody who wants to use a knuckler into going Fencer?! But that's one of my big beefs right now, disregard...the Massassi seems inferior to me to the regular VK, at least the ones from the froggies, it's slightly lower speed, but less damage, and I don't recall if the elemental effects I hoped would be on it are there...somebody check me on that, my memory's not the greatest, if it's got a heat special or whatever built in, that's cool, that might make it somewhat worthwhile. I still think the blasterfist is a better choice for the Commando regardless, and the Massassi better for TK, but that's this TK/Commando's row to hoe.

Getting back on topic Thinking about it, 2H for TK makes some sense for the reason you list, strength training. You can gain a good deal of power in your muscles from swinging around a big honkin' piece of metal. I find myself thinking now, about the unarmed prereq for Commando. I like a prereq that can actually help one survive when you don't have any weapons equipped, give you a little edge in the few seconds it might take to drag out your heavy weapon. But would 1H Weapons be better? Only my thoughts, identified as such, but when I think of real world commandos, I tend to think of Navy SEALS (might be a misconception on my part, no military person I). SEALS I believe are trained both in heavy weapons and stealth; there's not much stealthy about the SWG Commando, but I can rather easily picture a Commando needing to take something out quietly, thus whipping out a knife, and *snikt!* Kinda what I figured the knuckler addition for, in some ways...though for stealthy activities, a knife of some sort seems like a more classic way to go. I can already imagine an Imperial Commando like, well, me ...rising up from a river next to a Rebel base, water streaming off my shocktrooper armor, pulling out my Commando vibroblade or whatever, taking out a couple sentries right quick, then tugging out my flamer and some grenades, my rocket launcher prepared and ready to go, radioing my team to close in for the kill...