Commando Archive
Thread: HAM wounds, why so many people complain about the Flame
Your template vs. the template you listed ... fully buffed, fully armored: You're stacking the deck with a templatethat shoulddefeat your commando DABBLER template, and then use it to defend your use of a multi-flameDOT that is completely unfair.It's nonsense.BTW, as a master commando/master TKA fully doctor buffed, fully dancer buffed, fully musician buffed, fully food buffed, fully spice buffed, fully powerboosted, fully centered, fully armored with 80%+ kinetic composite, armed with a flame thrower and speed sliced VKs ... sure I could beat that template without stacking a fire DOT. How's that for stacking the deck? It can go both ways.
If you're going to pit a master commando against another combat class fully buffed, fully armored, you need to have your commando lackey also fully buffed and fully armored, and all skill points used towards combat skills. Again, you're stacking the deck to favor your argument. Nonsense.
Your example template with stacked defenses have already been acknowledged by the Devs as being unfair and unbalanced, and they are going to eliminate it in the combat rebalance. The Devs can only do one thing at a time. It just happens that commando will be brought into balance first. Your example template argument is invalid.
And a response to your biggest piece of nonsense:
I have EVERY right to post in the commando forums regarding professions in this game. Especially since I played the Master Commando profession for 2.5 months. I know all of its issues. I know how it works. I know how imbalanced its flame DOT is. I've played this game since launch day, so I've seen it all. Your assertion that I do not belong in this forum, or other forums, is the biggest piece of nonsense I've read yet.
izdefiler wrote:
You obviously never fought a Centered, 150+ Ranged defense, Buffed & Armored, TK/Fencer/Pistoleer cross. There are no tactics for a Commando against this template, I don't care if you are Master Commando + TK... who do you think is going to get their KD + Dizzy off first? The +25 Defense vs KD & +5 Defense vs Dizzy guy or the +120 vs KD & +95 vs Dizzy & not to mention the melee & ranged defensive mods? If the Commando takes his chances with the FT, he's dead because he will miss almost every shot. There is no combination of Master Commando that can defeat these templates as is, I've tried them all. I am not some Flame Single2 spamming shmuck that doesn't know how to make use of all his skills.
My current template is 2003 TK, 0400 Fencer, 0040 Pistoleer, and Master Commando. That leaves me with decent melee & ranged defenses, +105 vs KD and +50 vs Dizzy. I use /aim before firing a Commando special. If I were to get lucky and land 2 DoTs on one of these guys (remember buffs & armor), then I might stand a chance. One DoT would never kill them, and the delays between specials and our lack of any other viable offense in this situation makes us sitting ducks. It is not uncommon for Composite Armor to hover around 80% vs Heat.
Now let's get off the defensive template and pit a Master Commando against virtually any other Combat Profession Master. If no buffs or armorwere used orallowed, the Master Commando would have a chance of winning.Just picture a Pistoleer kiting and spamming Fanshot, a Rifleman with Advanced Strafe, a TK with CoB and high ranged defenses being nearly impossible to hit.. even if you are successful and get the first warcry off, with an avg of 8-seconds between specials that will give you a grand total of 2 free tries(one immediately after warcry, the other 8 sec later). If they warcry first it's all over, and if you don't land a DoT while they are delayed it's all over.
That's a lot for a Commando to be depending on a Brawler ability. I think the only opponent we could defeat on a 50/50 level would be the Master Pikeman. Thanks to their terrible accuracy (I played a Master before) and HAM costs, they'd kill themselves half the time... and they have very low Melee/Ranged defense mods. Now, if we are to cost more skillpoints than the majority of combat professions, does it make sense that we cannot compete with them? And the example I used favored Commandos without Armor & Buffs. Throw on 80% Heat Composite and Doctor buffs, it would take at least 2 DoTs successfully landed to bring that person down. That's assuming we are able to land 2 DoTs and last long enough ourselves to do it.
Many of you will point to our abilities vs AT STs and Turrets, and the possibility of one-stot-kills with the Rocket Launcher. I really wish I saw people running around with no buffs and armor in PvP, actually I don't because that usually means they are a defensive template and know they won't be hit. Not to mention the fact that a RL costs around 30k with only a little over 30 uses. If your weapons cost 1k each time you fired them, how often do you think you'd use them? It's fun at first, but after you spend 500k on Rocket Launchers and see them dwindle into nothing in a matter of days... you'd think twice before using them again. Besides that, how do you use a Rocket Launcher on a Group TEFing TK? lol.
Commando is currently overpowered in PvE, that's it and that's all. If we were also overpowered in PvP, then why isn't everyone and their mother a Commando? They were flavorful for a shortwhile (probably while you were one) and quickly went out of style with the advent of the defensive templates... which happened when CoB was introduced along with a metric ton of melee/ranged defense mods to TK & Fencer.
I believe the DoT stacking should have been handled quite differently. Flamesingle1&2 should not stack with each other, but FlameCone# should stack with Flamesingle#. That would reduce our number of stackable DoTs from 4 to 2, which would drastically reduce our overpowering abilities in PvE. It would affect us to an extent in PvP, but I honestly rarely get to apply a 4th DoT to a target in PvP.
Extended across the rest of the professions, this would disallow stacking of Healthshot1&2, Actionshot1&2, Mindshot1&2, PolearmActionHit1&2, but it would allow the stacking of Actionshot2 with PolearmActionhit2 - even if they are bleeds to the same pool. A Pikeman + Carbineer earned that right. A Commando would be in league with a Combat Medic as being the only single profesion that can apply multiple DoTs on the same pool. They earn that by spending more skillpoints than anyone, though I will be the first to point out that the CMs are just as overpowered in PvP as we are in PvE right now.
They are the swing profession for any group vs. group, and you can't currently counter them with a Doctor. Maybe 5 Doctors. They hurl their DoTs (they get to choose what HAM pool to target) from 64m (and farther with pre-nerfs) and a Mind Poison + Mind Disease does more to debilitate a player (or group of players) than any amount of Fire DoTs. Our DoTs come with extreme limitations (accuracy, ranged, 2.5x melee dmg modifier when we have HW equip) that the CMs do not face. And yet we are getting hit the hardest with this nerf while they remain untouched. The same goes with the TK, already the most versatile and useful profession.Almost every other profession takes a step backwards to TK and CM with this nerf, tell me if that is justified? I'm sorry but it simply isn't, and if you disagree with me then you are a TK or CM trying to protect your current status.
If the DoT stacking isn't changed from the current TC model, a Commando needs the following tweaks to regain a competitive footing:
Heavy Acid Rifle - an entire tree devoted to a useless weapon. It's been said over and over, make this something just as ferocious as a FT. Attach a DoT to it, Acid Burn and allow this to stack with a Flame DoT(both on Health pool,but different so as not to fall under the DoT stack nerf).
Accuracy and speed increases for both FT and HAR.
+30 Defense vs Intimidate at Master (we're freakin Commandos for cryin out loud)
+5 Defense vs Dizzy at Field Tactics IV
Rocket Launcher should deathblow a player if it causes their incapacitation. (I stole this idea from another thread, or possibly even this one... great idea and makes sense. If you are blown to pieces by a Rocket Launcher, why should you be able to get up from that and not a *sniper shot*)
Nerf the Melee & Ranged defenses of TKA, give to Pikeman and Swordsman.
Nerf the CM to not be able to stack area & singles or different lvls (A,B,C,D) of their poisons & diseases. Take away mind poison & disease completely. They would love that! Honest.
BHs need their own set of defenses. They are in the same boat as us, it would be worse if it weren't for them not taking a hit with this nerf. Their offensive firepower does not do enough to offset their lack of defenses, and they have few options leftover after Mastering to gain them.
Thank you very much for playing, and I /agree with most everyone else that DeneziB should take his/her outdated self someplace else. If you aren't a Commando you have no business here other than Trolling, plain and simple. There are plenty of other boards for you to post your anti-Commando comments.
Message Edited by izdefiler on 02-06-2004 12:48 AM
Message Edited by izdefiler on 02-06-2004 12:51 AM
sorry DeneziB dont want to flame you now too but ...
WE GOT NERFED !!! and ??? are you happy now ??? DoT dont stack anymore we dont do as much fire damage as before andWE STILL HAVE NO OTHER WEAPON THAN THE FT !!!!
btw why you dropped commando than ?? was it to weak 
i dropped it now too cause i suck in pvp and pve now (before it was just pvp cause i was CH but that was k cause i dont wanted to pvp at all)
wanna know what i go for now tkm fencer but ... after next patch defense dont stack anymore so i will go tk doc ...
you like the way this goes ??? everything get nerfed wanna know why ???
CAUSE OF PPL LIKE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! change your sig cause it discribes yourself to good !
DeneziB wrote:
Tactics for people with no skills (a partial list):
- Unarmed Knockdown 2 / Flame Single 2 against non-pistoleers
- Unarmed Lunge / Dizzy Flame Single 2 against pistoleers
- Warcry / Unarmed Lunge / Dizzy / Flame Single 2 / Unarmed Hit 3 against kiting cowards
- Warcry / Unarmed Lunge/ Dizzy / Flame Single 2 / Unarmed Headhit against eyeshot spamming composite wearing bounty hunters.
I'm sure my HAR would just rip those eyeshot spamming composite wearing bounty hunters (whew thats a mouthful!). Honestly though, I'm just using the only viable weapon I have. I hope you don't have a problem with that. 