Commando Archive
Thread: Passive Armour Break or Mass AoE?
Kaii
Fri May 13, 2005 5:52 pm
#40
I'm in support of option C as long as we have at least 3 master level commando weapons. The Plasma FT does heavy damage to a cone and has a DOT, and thats cool. We NEED a master level rocket launcher with Armor Break, I think everyone is in agreement with that. I would also like to see one more commando weapon with an AOE and a light armor break that does not have a DOT but a slightly longer range, maybe 40 meters or so and hits everything in a 5 meter radius. Maybe the Lightning Beam Cannon could cover that area
While I do use my heavy weapons more than I used to, most of them are not good unless I'm just using them for an opening shot. And since we do not get any innate specials (which I have no problem with) we should have more weapons at master. Nothing fancy, just upgraded versions of existing weapons.
I would also really like to see an E Web with heavyarmor break and a cone of fire. Give it a max range of 40 meters and make it immobile and you will have a GREAT situational weapon (and a huge target).
I would also like a pony... but I'll put that request in non starwars topics...
Raptor2k1
Fri May 13, 2005 7:10 pm
#41
I don't see the issue with us threatening other damage professions or why they should even be concerned about us getting a damage boost. Other heavy damage dealers get heavy damaging triggerable specials in addition to better single-target weapons. Unless they're trying to argue that commando, another DPS profession, shouldn't have equal DPS I don't see the logic. This proposal (if balanced right) would put us on par with other damage professions, so that commando is a viable as a stand-alone, in addition to making a DPS profession + Commando a worthwhile choice.
As opposed to right now where the only real point in taking commando is so you can AE state effects for crowd control.
Latenighter
Fri May 13, 2005 8:55 pm
#42
Nick,
It sounds like you have a diplomatic mission ahead of you. You need to educate the "others" that take the "what do the other high damage dealers get" (riflemen/swordsmen) in what the current status of the profession is:
They have currently good DPS damage.
We are far short.
We are supposed to be their equals.
The armor break feature is a creative way to allow us to commit the damage on a level equal to their own.
They need nothing.
We need a fix.
It sounds like you have a diplomatic mission ahead of you. You need to educate the "others" that take the "what do the other high damage dealers get" (riflemen/swordsmen) in what the current status of the profession is:
They have currently good DPS damage.
We are far short.
We are supposed to be their equals.
The armor break feature is a creative way to allow us to commit the damage on a level equal to their own.
They need nothing.
We need a fix.
Ugly_Duck
Sat May 14, 2005 12:51 am
#43
I like option C the most. PFTcould be the high AOE low Armor Piercing. Proton rifle(if made a loot schematic, or just craftable) could be the master no AOE high armor piercing. Rocket Launcher would be fun too. To make grenades a little more usefull, could they be made to have both? Our high end grenades such as the proton and thermal could have armor penetration AND their splash damage making them a much more viable PvP option.
DarthMercilous
Sat May 14, 2005 1:57 am
#44
I have to say that I would have to go for Armour Break, given that I prefer precision over the chaos that an uncontrollable AoE can bring. However, that said, why don't they just give us specials back, make the Armour Break a master level special, and give us AoE based specials, then we wouldn't be firing them off every single time, and then use the limited armour break effect on all our weapons, giving us a low AP innate, that would then be enhanced up by our master level special.
Tyyylowyspetily
Sat May 14, 2005 5:05 am
#45
I've given this some serious thought before posting on it (well, at least as much thought asI am willing to commit to a computer game), and I think the answer is, it really must be both. FT's the HAR, and the HAL need to continue in their role of area attack, while the other heavy weapons really need a boost in hitting power. The RL honestly can't get too much more powertful without losing KD, but giving it some AP would better bring it in line with otherKD moves in BH or Carbines.
Onereason I say "it must be both" is the way in which commando is tied to other professions, notably smuggler, but also rifles, carbines, and to a lesser extent BH, SL, and CM. Each of these professions has something to offer up to those professions which are linked by basic skills, and those additions are flexible in their application. If the damage modifier, whether a passive armor break or full area damage, is set to one rigid thing, then the templates that commando can make use of effectively will be limited severely. I would rather see a diverse commando community rather than hundreds of people running around with the same template.
The other reason I say "it must be both" is this would solve one of the largest problems with commando as it now stands. We always have an area of effect with our best weapons. Giving the commando the ability to choose the correct tool for the job is, I believe crucial to a profession that is so tied to it's weapons. A bounty Hunter that auto attacks with improved spray shot would not be welcomed in a group, anymore than a commando that wants to actually use a heavy weapon instead of a pistol, carbine, or rifle.
I really like the armor break solution to the substandard dps commando currently suffers. It's brilliant really in it's simplicity. However, I would hate to lose any hope of a flexible profession by being forced into a single role. Other combat professions have flexibility in their choice of attacks. The commando's weapons are his/her special attacks, and like all other professions, commando deserves that flexibility.
Obviously having both rolled into a single weapon would be horrifically unbalanced. If some way can be found to leave commando a little flexibilty and a comprimise solution can be reached,I would happily continue on with my plans to go master smuggler/ master commando. I truly do not want to be a bounty hunter with Lowy. I have a BH on another server, and it fits that character very well. I truly hope commando can be that 5 level damage dealer I was looking towards to create a balanced template.
Litushot
Sat May 14, 2005 8:21 am
#46
StarNick wrote:
Some of the devs are on vacation time due to the crunch that involved the CU...so things are for the most part slow for now. Talking to a few folks, Ive recieved some criticism on this idea involving what do other hvy damage dealers get, commandoes will be overpowered, etc etc...but to be honest, Im all for an armour break in my opinion.
We'll see how it goes when (or if) I get a response from the devs...hopefully Helios directly. If we can get some more advanced weaponry, then Option C is a perfect choice and probably the most balanced of the three if we can get the devs to give us advanced versions of our RL and LP. Its a ton to ask for, and may not happen (hence Option A/B may be more feasible). Ill look into every possible form of getting this implented in the most beneficial - yet balanced - form to commandoes...advocating advanced weapons, and diversity in our weapons involving AE/AP...or if that gets denied, the other options. Until we get some responses, everythings up in the air and we'll keep an open mind
Thanks for all the feedback too folks
Especially you tacwraith...sent your post on giving some weapons an AP quality but no AoE and others AoE but no AP quality up to HQ
Message Edited by StarNick on 05-13-2005 04:59 PM
Hrrmmmm......maybe the other corrs need to keep an open mind, lol. With option C a ton of things open up for everyone:
- Opens up more varied commando templates, like allowing MComm/MSL to actually survive hehe
- Gives commandos more tacitcal edge, like we should be....we are commandos lol
- Means that no two commandos would necessarily be the same, unlike the MBH/MCarbs FOTM that's startin' to poke up
- The other classes don't lose out- we still wouldn't have specials, so we'd need their help to be better....so our heaviest dmg would come from rifle/comm builds
- People keep forgetting class ROLES. I dueled several people last night w/ my MComm/MCarb build and beat everyone....a pistoleer tried to root me--I have longer range, he's dead--a melee didn't try to find cover to lower my range--dead--and a rifleman attempted to use snipershot--I had off 4shots by then, dead--so it's all in playstyle.
- By making commando more varied in and of itself, no one fight vs. a different commando would be the same. Maybe one guy has a crazy good flamer, while another got an amzing slice & pup on his proton rifle, and maybe another loves to use grenades to supplement his rocket launcher.
- Pistoleers won't have an issue b/c they could use the Adv. LP
- Rifles can't complain b/c thye can grab the proton rifle (if they love it so much hehe)
- Carbs can't complain b/c......uhhh.....lol, b/c they still rule at states
- BH can't complain b/c thye hunt jedi
Just a rant hehe, kinda blows my mind when people are afraid of a commando becoming better.....imagine that....
Shaundo
Sat May 14, 2005 8:33 am
#47
/clap
/cheer
/applaud
/worship
/bow
/hi5
As a master combat medic/master commando I say 3 cheers for Lowy! Back under the old system I loved commando but always wanted to try cm, so I dropped commando for a short time. Back then it seemed the only profession that fit with cm was rifles, but I hated rifleman. With the reduced skill point requirements for commando after curb I switched from teras kasi to combat medic and now I could never go back.I love combat medic and I'd never drop commando ever again. I have been complaining a lot to my guildmates about the lack of 5 rated damage commando was promised. I've had people tell me that in order to achieve the 5 rated damage commando was promised I would need to couple it with an eliteranged profession and I don't like this idea. I'd like to see commando get the 5 it was promised and be able to branch out however they choose.
JoKen_Jash
Sat May 14, 2005 9:13 am
#48
Litushot wrote:
StarNick wrote:
Some of the devs are on vacation time due to the crunch that involved the CU...so things are for the most part slow for now. Talking to a few folks, Ive recieved some criticism on this idea involving what do other hvy damage dealers get, commandoes will be overpowered, etc etc...but to be honest, Im all for an armour break in my opinion.
We'll see how it goes when (or if) I get a response from the devs...hopefully Helios directly. If we can get some more advanced weaponry, then Option C is a perfect choice and probably the most balanced of the three if we can get the devs to give us advanced versions of our RL and LP. Its a ton to ask for, and may not happen (hence Option A/B may be more feasible). Ill look into every possible form of getting this implented in the most beneficial - yet balanced - form to commandoes...advocating advanced weapons, and diversity in our weapons involving AE/AP...or if that gets denied, the other options. Until we get some responses, everythings up in the air and we'll keep an open mind
Thanks for all the feedback too folks
Especially you tacwraith...sent your post on giving some weapons an AP quality but no AoE and others AoE but no AP quality up to HQ
Message Edited by StarNick on 05-13-2005 04:59 PM
Hrrmmmm......maybe the other corrs need to keep an open mind, lol. With option C a ton of things open up for everyone:
- Opens up more varied commando templates, like allowing MComm/MSL to actually survive hehe
- Gives commandos more tacitcal edge, like we should be....we are commandos lol
- Means that no two commandos would necessarily be the same, unlike the MBH/MCarbs FOTM that's startin' to poke up
- The other classes don't lose out- we still wouldn't have specials, so we'd need their help to be better....so our heaviest dmg would come from rifle/comm builds
- People keep forgetting class ROLES. I dueled several people last night w/ my MComm/MCarb build and beat everyone....a pistoleer tried to root me--I have longer range, he's dead--a melee didn't try to find cover to lower my range--dead--and a rifleman attempted to use snipershot--I had off 4shots by then, dead--so it's all in playstyle.
- By making commando more varied in and of itself, no one fight vs. a different commando would be the same. Maybe one guy has a crazy good flamer, while another got an amzing slice & pup on his proton rifle, and maybe another loves to use grenades to supplement his rocket launcher.
- Pistoleers won't have an issue b/c they could use the Adv. LP
- Rifles can't complain b/c thye can grab the proton rifle (if they love it so much hehe)
- Carbs can't complain b/c......uhhh.....lol, b/c they still rule at states
- BH can't complain b/c thye hunt jedi
Just a rant hehe, kinda blows my mind when people are afraid of a commando becoming better.....imagine that....
And what happens when we start owning jedi and we suddenly fall into the nerf spotlight? Like what's happening with the smugglers. Isn't anyone even getting a little worried about it?
GenericTSS
Sat May 14, 2005 9:42 am
#49
Armour break all the way! We need some extra oomph to take down enemies.... plus yeah AoE isn't really working and it makes me into a big aggro magnet w/o doing any damage. Thanks for the effort Starnick, we'll keep fighting the good fight!
/salute
Latenighter
Sat May 14, 2005 10:50 am
#50
JoKen_Jash wrote:
And what happens when we start owning jedi and we suddenly fall into the nerf spotlight? Like what's happening with the smugglers. Isn't anyone even getting a little worried about it?
Do Jedi have armor for "armor break" to affect? Technical question that I really honestly don't know the answer to. If they don't then the Jedi would be totally unaffected by the change.
Gamble
Mon May 16, 2005 8:46 am
#51
Sorry, I don't have the time to read the entire thread but I did wanna put one thought in that might help keep the AoE in and the armor break.
Make it an ability of sorts along the line of duelist stance. It would be somewhat of a pain to use instead of a passive ability but if it comes to getting AoE and AB, think this would bea decent compromise. It takes away at least one combat move while charging and lasts between 30s to 1min before having to be reapplied. Of course this should be a master only deal. Anyway, just a thought.
PyscoJuggalo
Mon May 16, 2005 9:38 am
#52
JoKen_Jash wrote:
And what happens when we start owning jedi and we suddenly fall into the nerf spotlight? Like what's happening with the smugglers. Isn't anyone even getting a little worried about it?
<------ Read my Guild, if you ever kill a Jedi your profession will get nerfed.