Commando Archive

actually alot of it is wrong now I think
not off by a ton, but off nonetheless it appears
re-working it all now with some new #'s just double checking it all to make sure the modifiers are done correct/accurate

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Gray03 wrote:

Wolf - the increases damage when using an AP1-3 weapon against AR0 IS NOT WORKING on live currently. There have been dozens of tests done to show this. SOE claims that is how it is "intended" to be, but it is not working atm.

You can easily verify this if you use AP 1-2 weapons (there are many) with similar stats to an AP0 vs some basic newbie AR0 critters. (Make sure the damage type/resist is the same though)

Once this is "fixed" so that it actually works properly, you will be seeing nearly 4x base damage hits from rocket launchers.

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Currently, AP/AR is ignored if the target is vulnerable to your attack. Take a Laser Carbine. If the target is vulnerable to energy, then it doesn't matter if their AR is 0 or 3, you'll do the same damage. If they instead have a 5% resistance, then you'll do normal damage * 1.25 * 1.25* 0.95 = 1.48 * normal damage.

I'd have to assume that this is a bug/shortcut in the damage code. You shouldn't do more damage to a target that is slightly resistant to energy than you do to one that has no resistance.

Personally, I thinkthereshould be no bonus to damage for exceeding the AR of the target. If they did this, and then upgraded the damage of the weapons that rely on the AP3 multiplier to deal good damage, it would make a lot more sense. Then you'd have AP3 weapons dealing the same damage no matter what the target's armor was, modified by their resistance. Something that's 70% resistant to energy should always be 70% resistant to energy.

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Gray03 wrote:

Wolf - the increases damage when using an AP1-3 weapon against AR0 IS NOT WORKING on live currently. There have been dozens of tests done to show this. SOE claims that is how it is "intended" to be, but it is not working atm.

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Incorrect. Easily verified with my T21. I get 600+ damage hits on unarmored unresisted enemies without using any specials. That's a bit under double my max damage.

Zurai. Could you test this since you have a T-21.

Find an Npc with 0 Ap and no resistances to your damage type? Give the min-max's and see if they are X 1.953 your weapons min/max?

Then duel someone with no armor on.

Then duel someone with armor on.

We are trying to compile the data to see what is and is not working. Thanks.

I appreciate it.

In my various discussions in other forums I went and did my homework.

This is what SOE said exactly:

"Additional AT-ST, AT-AT, and Turret Armor Notes:

AT-STs, AT-ATs, and turrets have all been given an armor vulnerability to Blast type damage. This means that rocket launcher, blast-type grenade, and mine damage is no longer blocked by any of these entities’ armors."

Key words armor vulnerability. From SOE's description of armor

"Vulnerability:

Vulnerability denotes Damage Types in which the armor offers no protection whatsoever. Our bone armor has quite a few of these: Kinetic, Blast, Stun, Heat, Cold, and Acid. Whenever the armor is hit by one of these Damage Types, all of the damage goes through. The target wearing this armor would also have an Armor Rating of None against any of these Vulnerabilities.

So looks like the 195.3% damage bonus will go into effect.

This also means that Launcher Pistol will work as a AP0 for full damage. No bonus mind you, but full damage nonetheless. So all those who were against the idea of removing pistol specials and having unique Commando specials instead, what do you think of this? Master BH, Pistoleer, and Smugglers will now all train novice Commando just to get this gun AND they will be better with it than a Master Commando.

Far easier to round up 20 of such people whose guns don't run out of shots.

Doh... no wonder I was getting it wrong. I thought it was being set to 0% resistance, not given a vulnerability to Blast. My bad, misread entirely.

Ivoni, BH's choosing Nov Comm for the LP will need to give up CH, Pistoleer or Carbineer, and not take medic. It's 35 more skill points, since they have to buy Unarmed, too.

Pistoleers will have to gain an additional 83 skill points (giving up Mastership in another profession) just to get the LP.

No... no way... you can't just dabble in Commando... the pre-reqs are just too intense to let anyone be anything else plus Commando. Any Pistoleer that does what you say is a Commando with lots of Pistol skill, not a Pistoleer that is dabbling in Commando.

Okay I ran some tests this morning to get this right - and learned a few things.

Tests were conducted using a Scout blaster, energy - AP none - 123 max damage and an E-11 rifle, energy - AP medium and 156 max damage

The first series of tests were merely to prove wether or not there is a *base* damage multiplier for "standard" attacks - no specials used. (In all cases we will use "reported" damage from the combat window as actual damage is irrelevant to this test - all tests involved several hundred shots against "normal" targets, no prone/KD bonuses and no traps or anything else used to lower defense)

Scout Blaster max damage 123 - max damage reported 184 ratio = 1.495+change, call it 1.5x

E11 rfile max damage 156 - max damage reported 233 ration = 1.4935+change, call it 1.5x

The similarity of the numbers should prove beyond any doubt that there is indeed a 1.5x damage multiplier to all "standard" ranged weapon attacks - in each case the top end number was a not a lone fluke, but occurred repeatedly in the test.

It is my further belief that "left hand" weapons such as the Heavy particle beam and Rocket Launcher have a higher *base* multiplier - such as a x2. Unfortunately I am no longer a commando and cannot test this - if some one wants to and report back I would appreciate it.

In a further test, I proved myself WRONG (yes it happens and I admit it) on the current state of AP weapons vs AR0 targets. Tests were conducted using the same Scout Blaster and E11 vs an AR0 target with a 25% special protection vs Energy. Reported damage is what appeared in the combat window - actual damage is from the targets HAM bars.

Scout blaster: reported 136, actual 98; reported 96, actual 70 -- and more similar cases, the numbers are close to, but slightly off, a 25% reduction - I suspect this is due to how the damage is split over the HAM bars.

E11 rifle: reported 143, actual 157 ; reported 184, actual 215 - and more similiar cases - the numbers are close to what we would expect from a a 25% reduction, followed by two increases from an AP2 weapon hitting an AR0 target. (Not precisely - but again I suspect the splitting of damage among HAM bars alters results slightly)

So with all this info and with the clarification on the "vulnerability of Turrets/AT-STs to Blast damage, the numbers *should* look something like this:

base max damage: 3325 (x1.5 for standard shot)(x1.25 - first AP)(x1.25 - 2nd AP)(x1.25 - 3rd AP) = 9741 (this is assuming RL standard shot is only x1.5 - if it is x2 as I believe from my previous experience with one, then the final max damage is 12988)

against a target with no vulnerabilty and AR1 + 30% blast resist it ends up being : 5455 max damage ( 7273 if its a x2 base mod)

There you go - about the best I can do until someone verifies the damage multiplier for a "standard" rocket launcher or heavy particle beam shot.

Ok. First off. Kudos and thanks to Gray03 for your outstanding work. Nice to finally get the math. I'll go toss it in my spreadsheet. This really puts a smile on my face.

One question. Did you duel? There are arguments that one gets hit more often by wearing armor. Also that the armor isn't working in PvP.

I have some beam cannons I'll go test with. I'll get back with you later.

Also, Kreistor I went and crunched the numbers.

Master Pistoleer/Novice Commando = 75 skill points free

Master Smuggler/Novice Commando = 75 skill points free

Bounty Hunter Pistol 4/Novice Commando = 41 skill points free.

All of these combos will beat a Master Commando in a duel with the Launche Pistol. Does this seem right?

Remember a Master Commando only has 77 skill points free and a Master Bounty Hunter only has 33.

Nice to see we are making progress on getting answers though.

Gray03. I just noticed something.

The added bonus for AP2 vs Ap0 is not working when no resistance involved isn't working.

E11 has AP2. On your first set of testing you showed this.

Gun has listed 156 max. It hit for 233 max. Yes there's that 1.5 bonus, but where is the 1.563 bonus for the Ap2 vs Ap0? If there is a 1.5 AND a 1.563 we should expect a 365 max. But we don't. See.

156 X 1.5 = 234 X 1.56 = 365???

But, the scout also hit for 184 max. 1.5 bonus. MMmm.
123 X 1.5 = 184.

Ok. So this shows AP bonuses are not working right.


On to vs ap0 with 25% reduction

Scout blaster: 136 became 98 and 96 became 70 so we see a 25% reduction.
.75 of 136 = 102..mmm..close to 98
.75 of 96 = 72..mmm...close to 98

E11 rifle: 143 became 157 and 184 became 215.
.75 of 143 = 107 * 1.563 (ap bonus) = 167 MMM. close.
.75 of 184 = 138 * 1.563 = 215 Ahh. That works

So when there's a resistance involved the formula works. Otherwise, something is up.

Bounty hunter/commando with 41 skill points left? A Master BH has 33 left over, and 29 are taken to become novice commando.

What I said was Bounty Hunter Pistol 4. Not a Master BH.

Just to clarify - all my numbers were from PvE. In the case of the actual damage/vs reported damage the numbers were obtained by Fire one shot, immediately /peace, record HAM numbers vs shot damage while running away.