Commando Archive
Thread: Correspondent Update for June of 2005
The funny thing about that Tac is that is what the devs pitched Commando to all us CUrbers as - a profession that enhances the damage and attacks of other professions through the usage of special weapons
I just feel we should have Specials. Sorry, but just a Master Commando has no Specials. Yes they are built in but you really can't do that much. Wouldn't it be better if we power-up folks with our specials rather then our weapons. Otherwise anyone who takes our profession is gonna have to use or weapons. How pointless and boring is that. If I take another Profession I want to be able to use their weapons as effectively too. However I should benefit more from using our Weapons.
If we have the most powerful weapons in-game, we will be nerfed. And were not suppose too. So what happens. You can't give us above average weapons otherwise watch as everyone becomes a Commando to use them since they will always out do any others.
Make them any less and will hold claim to the weakest Pure Combat Profession. I do not want to be a Gear Profession. What should I carry around Toolbox!
This does not work.
You need to make us like everyone else. That means specials and everything else. It's a failed experiment.
Please don't let this happen, I just don't see Commando being anything this way. I will leave if this Profession is doomed just to be Weapons. Look I love my Flamethrower. However I don't want to see everyone carrying around. Commando should be a choice. Bounty Hunter gives you nice Defensive and Offensive abilities that round off any template.
We need abilities that help the Offensive of others.
This brings me to another point. We help Melee folks in no such way, but we still have a Melee Pre Req. That is just moronic.
Also I'm trying to shoot you down Ackehece, but everyone will be super jealous when they find out we can usefully use all our weapons. I'm afraid and think it would be better if this worked for all Professions, not just us. Otherwise a lot of weapons stay useless to high level players.
No I feel this is the best way about going things.
Commando is suppose to be 5 Offense, Defense 3, and Crowd Control 1.
Hmm so powerful attacks, good defense, really no crowd effects.
Clearly we are not living up to this.
So weapons. Strip all our weapons of AoEs. We are not Crowd Control. Only Greandes will have an AoE. Let me outline each weapon in Order and some specials we should have.
C12-Not Commando Specific, but still the foundation of all Greandes. Should have a Energy Damage of 80-100. Radius has 8M. Has a timer of 12 seconds. Not something to rely on as a main weapon but something you can chuck into Battle for that extra bit of help. The Radius only hits targets in that radius and will only aggro targets within the 8M Radius of the target hit. This rule is for all Greandes. Greandes are also thrown seperatly from all other weapons. So throwing a Grenade will not delay your other attacks.
Fragmentation Grenade-Energy Damage 150-300. Radius 8M. Has timer of 14 Seconds. Novice Commando required.
Launcher Pistol-Kinetic Damage. Damage 150-300. 45M Range. Novice Commando required.
*Heavy Shot*-Powerful Attack doing slightly more Damage then Critical Shot. Novice Commando.
Cyroban Greande-Energy Damage with some Cold Damage. Damage is 400-700. Radius of 10M. Snares all targets for 6 seconds. Has timer of 20 seconds. Explosives I required.
*Bash*-Melee attack useable with any weapon that stuns opponent. 5M range. Explosives I.
Rocket Launcher-Kinetic Damage. Damage 200-350. 65M Range. Heavy Incenidary I required.
Heavy Acid Rifle-Energy Damage and Acid Damage. Damage 200-380. 45M Range. Heavy Acid Weapons I required.
Zick Bug Bomb-Energy Damage and Acid Damage. Damage 800-1000. Radius of 10M. Has Timer of 20 seconds. Explosives II required.
Flamethrower-Energy Damage and Heat Damage. Damage 300-600. 45M Range. Heavy Incenidary Weapons III required.
Acid Streamer Launcher-Acid Damage. Damage 300-550. 45M Range. Heavy Acid Weapons III required.
*Improved Heavy Shot*-More powerful then *Heavy Shot* but more action costly. Heavy Weapons II.
*Concentrated Fire*-Strong Ranged attack that has a 50% chance to KD, but always Dizzies opponent. Heavy Incenidary Weapons III.
Imperial Detonator-Kinetic Damage. Damage 700-1000. Radius 12M. 75% chance to KD enemies. Has timer of 18 Seconds. Explosives III required.
Lightning Beam Cannon-Energy Damage and Electrical Damage. Damage 350-650. 45M Range. Heavy Weapons IV required.
Advanced Rocket Launcher-Kinetic Damage. Damage 400-600. 65M Range. Heavy Incenidary Weapons IV required.
Thermal Detonator-Energy Damage. Damage 1000-1600. Radius 12M. Has timer of 25 seconds. Explosives IV required.
*Advanced Heavy Shot*-Does more damage then *Improved Heavy Shot* but at even more action cost. Heavy Incenidary Weapons IV.
*Burn Shot*-Does damage equal to that of *Improved Heavy Shot*, but adds a Flame DoT/Acid DoT and Blinds opponent. Can only be used with Heavy Acid Rifle, Flamethrower, Acid Streamer Launcher, and Plasma Flamethrower. Heavy Acid Weapons IV required.
Plasma Flamethrower-Energy Damage and Heat Damage. Damage 400-800. 45M Range. Master Commando required.
Heavy Particle Beam Cannon-Energy Damage. Damage 400-700. 65M Range. Master Commando required.
Proton Greande-Energy Damage and Heat Damage. 1500-2000 damage. Radius 12M. Has timer of 35 seconds. Master Commando required.
Proton Rifle-Energy Damage. Damage 450-720. 65M Range. Master Commando required.
*Heavy Bash*-Melee attack useable with any weapon that with a 25% chance KD and always Roots opponent.
*Rage*-Increases Damage done by weapons by an extra 25% for 30 seconds. Has a cool down of 10 minutes.
Are Defenses seem to be one of the few things actually correct so I shall leave them alone. I wasn't sure what speeds to put them at, but their speed should be comparable to that of other Weapons at such levels and keeps their DPS equal.
I think all these specials are great. *Rage* might have to be removed or changed if it proves to be un-balancing. However remember Commandos should be pratically hitting as hard as any Rifleman almost. Rage boosts your power quite a bit for a short time, but cannot be used too often, making it very strategic. Besides if a Commando uses Rage simply KD and stop them to lessen the effects. Rage could also enhance damage some other way then what I said, or perhaps enhance defense somehow. Though I think what I have laid out is what all Commandos would like to see.
Also I'd like for Rocket Launchers and such weapons to be Weapons we carried on our Shoulders rather the big looking guns. What kind of RL do you carry with your two hands. Every SW RL I've seen is big and has to be fired from your shoulder.
Message Edited by TK-132 on 06-08-2005 07:58 AM
Please TacWraith, you have an obvious love of the profession, great passion for the need of an improvement, good imagination, and an obvious ability to express your thoughtsintelligently. We sure could use you in trying to make this idea work. Spending all that negative energy in a positive focused manner, free of self interest as part of a group effort could help us all to achieve more than the sum of our individual abilities. Helping to explore the possiblity, in no way excludes the idea of consumable weapons. Failing to explore all potentially viable ideas could, on the other hand, have grave consequence.
tacwraith wrote:
"The funny thing about that Tac is that is what the devs pitched Commando to all us CUrbers as - a profession that enhances the damage and attacks of other professions through the usage of special weapons"
Right now commando is EXACTLY what the devs pitched. It DOES enchance other proffessions by using our special heavy weapons. Crowd controllers get AOE, heavy hitters get access to dots and to effects they dont have in their own proffessions, etc etc.
Yes, the area effect is a benefit to anyone.
What is left out is the 5 damage rating. That is what we all areangry at SOE about. That is why y'all asking for upping weapon damage. It wont work.
Currently, the class is not even a "4" damage rating. What a BH could level in seconds will, I garantee you, kill any commando template.
"Also your examples are no different from using snipershot or charge shot or advanced criticalwith the plasmaflamer or the lighting beam cannon... which is done all the time already."
Yes with less results than if you were using a rifle. The PFT is 25m limit.. i guarantee you that if it was 50m range every single idiot out there would (again) be firing flamethrowers only in combat
Reason number one why commando weapons will probably never be prefered over others as mainstay attack weapons. They will remain "utility weapons".
. the DOT is that good.
380 damage ticking every 6 seconds and sticking approximately 20% of the time isn't "that" good.
Elemental damage will make it even harder hitting. What scaling up commando weapons will do is turn it into FOTM because it will be the highestdps proffessionand when the whines hit the ceiling that pvp becomes nothing but commandos swapping critical/leg/headshots we will get nerfed. It has happened before. It will happen again if this proposal goes through. And i've bookmarked this post & come back and say I TOLD YOU SO when it does happen.
Why you are not attempting to help put forth a balanced proposal that is not your own, and only your own, I don't know, but a thousand "I told you so's" do not help.Nor will even one "I TOLD YOU SO" make you feel one iota better if the class remains completely borked, and the idea of consumables is also rejected as it would raise our maximum attack damage beyond that which is now within the developer vision for commando. The action costs on all heavy weapons make your scenerio unlikely at best. These high SAC's will relegate commando weapons to a utilitarian role provided these same weapons do not exceed the damage range of other professions, regardless of the state effect they land. Staes aren't resisted because of defenses (other than jedi), they are resisted because they are on timers. There iszero benefit to spamming leg shot with a high action cost weapon that inflicts "blind" or "Knockdown"if the timer is still in effect from a previous shot.
Proffession role wise commando must NOT become the highest dps proffession. It must become the highest single-shot damage proffession in the game. Front-loaded damage. a consumable rocket hitting for 3k damage (same as sniper shot) with no state effects and the commando switching to low dps/high utility (effects)heavy weapons is what commando should be. It will not overpower us, it will not get us nerfed. The proffession would be one with a 'different' way of inflicting heavy damage and with great AOE abilities.
Try spamming high action cost specials with that 133 SAC PFT andit quickly becomes obvious that we are in fact "front loaded". Rifles are not the highest DPS profession either, they hit one single target hard. Introducing a consumable that grants the same capability would eliminate the rifleman as the single high damage low dps profession in game. For this reason, I have reservations over whether or not consumables would be a viable option, but I remain open to the concept, provided the crafting of these items could be simplified enough to lower the price tag under250 cr.per shot. this is still exorbinate considering I can makes thousands of shots out of a rifle that will do precisely the same thing.
The proffession must stand alone in its 5 damage rating. The moment it 'shares' this rating with other proffessions it will become overpowered because there is NO WAY to balance high damage weapons and high damage modifier specials and strong state effects all in one package. Right now SOE got it right: low dps that is brought up to decent/good damage by using OTHER proffession specials (thats the point of being able to pick up other skills) with a buttload of built in specials in the weapons. We lack the damage rating promised to us. SOE has no clue how to do it as you know from their fanfest response. You guys are pushing SOE to up the damage on weapons and thats something SOE has already said was very delicate for the commando balance.
Right now, SOE is struggling to get it right. They have it almost right. What is proposed in no way elevates commando beyond what other classes can output in terms of damage. In order to inflict multiple states, we must change weapons. This in and of itself automatically reduces DPS. Even were all ofour weapons to see the moderate increase in damage elemental damage being fixed will bring, other professions will likewise see this adjustment, and it leaves us in the exact same comparitive position we are in right now. We are not brought up to the level of other professions with their specials. 100% false. If this were true, you would not see commandos switching to pistols, carbines and rifles to actually fight a battle, with the occasional attack from a heavy to attempt to stick a state or mass root. And once again, we are not pushing for the damage on weapons to exceed that to which we are already capable, just to widen the choices available in making that weapon selection without losing damage output. Unique amonst ranged professions? Yes. Desirable? Yes. Why does a yes answer to both questions turn the answer to the second question into a "no"?
As much as I hate to admit this, SOE is right and you are very wrong. (gawd i feel dirty saying that). The issue is other proff. specials used alongside commando weapons. Consumable heavy weapons do not use other proffessions specials. That is the holy grail that will give us our 5 damage rating.
There is no "holy grail". There are only numerous suggestions to consider, including your own.
I am not saying we should get a T-21 equivalent that has a built in uber-DOT or anything, but a decent DPS, 65m range gun that does blind(or something useful) and does not aggro half the planet on you would not be overpowered as far as I am concerned.
That being said, I think once elemental damage, AoE, and the annoying bug with DOTs preventing incap are fixed it would be a lot easier to judge how things should go from there. I really hope these issues get fixed soon as they will atleast bring commando up to a point where we should have been when the CU went live. Its hard to flesh out a profession when the skeleton is still broken.
Message Edited by GlanocRunningstrider on 06-08-2005 12:57 PM
Its all a matter of point of view. Upping weapon damage equally, for all weapons, is bad. Allowing the ability to have a master commando have access to not 3 CL 50-54 weapons, but his entire arsenal is totally different.
If we were asking (really, discussing) upping weapon damage:
Why Ackehace's idea is not this:
The difference is that our weapons wouldn't work just off of a restrictive CL system since they're our utilities. Rather, at each respective level you are in commando, your low level HW would be on the level you're at. Hence, at master level your LP will be no different than the Proton Rifle or Plasma FT (more like the PR as the LP has no DoT). The set limit IS CL 54, and every CL 54 weapon is within an already defined parameters for speed, wound, and damage. It is impossible for a weapon to go over these defined parameters by themselves, and that is not what we're proposing. At its core, its making a master commando have 9 weapons and 6 grenades to choose from rather than 3 weapons and 2 grenades. Thats ALL the idea is about.
The only way a rifle can do 3200 damage is via snipershot - specials. If all our weapons were or were able to be modified to represent a CL 54 level, then all our weapons can do the 3200 damage if used with snipershot. The same goes with ANY CL 54 mastery weapon, and ANY CL54 weapon thats non-skill certed out there.
Then, we add in the DoTs, the innate states, and the AoE from (some) of the weapons which in combination to the ability to use our entire arsenal, is the epitome of utility. Its the SAME exact concept as giving commandos advanced versions of their heavy weapons (ie Advanced RL), except for the fact that there will be less schematics...and less things a commando will have to buy and spend money on.
It is apparent the devs consider us utility. That means, specials may most likely not get implented into the profession and thus we rely solely on our weapons. And according to Keldarin that 5 offense no longer applies. Our damage comes via utility - AoE, DoTs, Innate State effects, and elemental. Currently, our master level weapons only have DoTs...and they're the only useful. That leaves the majority of our utility rotting away. The elemental when fixed will give us a slight boost in damage over a regular AoE special that does 800-1000 dmg with a master weapon (so we should do 1000-1200 dmg, by ourselves with marksman specials). Allowing us access to that utility is now imperative, either through this or through getting more advanced weaponry at master level. It will give each of our weapons more roles (like the PFT was intended more AoE, less elemental while the FT was less AoE [hopefully we can get it to zero AoE], but more elemental). So some of our weapons will inherently do more state damage/restrictions/CC but less damage, while other HW will do more overall damage but lesser state damage/restrictions/CC. That is apparently what the Devs shot for originally with our weapons; and with all those weapons at a CL 50-54 level it should be balanced...
Hence, at master level we'll gain some weapons that do more elemental (hence damage) but no AoE, and the weapons that do more AoE already have less elemental. That'll help solve our issue with all AoE weapons.
Saying simply that we're asking "to up damage" is far too general, and IS unbalancing. That is not the goal here which is to bring all our weapons up to the respective CL 50-54 levels so we can use the utility they provide, very similiar ideas but at the same time VERY different from one another, especially when you take into account of how our weapons currently act in terms of states/aoe and damage...
Message Edited by StarNick on 06-08-2005 06:11 PM
I see your point Starnick but the problem is for us to be a utility class the class actually has to have some utility. Currently the game (at leastwith the people I play wiht) is all about agro control and our stuff generates way more agro than can be controlled. I'm sure you are aware already but let's look at the utility we're supposed to have:
KD's currently from the rocket launcher have a long timer and short recovery. The mob is knocked down for about a second and can't be knocked down for a long time afterwards. This isn't very helpful combined with doing almost no damage and the warping bug I consider this weapon to have very little utility, but I still use it almost exclusively because it's one of the weapons that doesn't do AOE
I have been able to stick Blind with the HAR effectively, but I've seen no benefit from doing so, the mob still attacks me at the same rate, still does the same damage, and is still very hard to kite because it's faster than I am. Additionally I almost always blind myself using the HAR. I use the HAR less post CU than I did pre-cu because now nothing has heat resists. So no utility here.
Lag pistol has no point. Low damage, no states, no nothin.
The PFT does medium-low damage when compared to other professions, mass AOE and may cause a fire DOT. When you do AOE you get massed agro and you die. If you're in a group many of your group members will probably die with you. In fact when I hunt in a group (which nowadays is almost always) I've been asked to not use the PFT unless it's the last mob or the lair. Solo I draw more agro than I can handle and die. Even if I was doing 100% AOE the mobs would still kill me faster than I could damage them. Then there's the DOT. DOTs in general are not very good any more ~3% of the mobs total health per tick and it ticks slowly, if you incap the mob you will drop out of combat and then the mob will get up and beat on you (can you imagine incapping a group of mobs with a DOT and then having the zombies come and kill you? Night of the living dead SWG style). And if you're incapped the DOT stops doing damage and the mob(s) regenerate to full health in the time it takes you to come out of incap and heal. So all in all this weapon has very limited utility and will continue to do so even with 100% AOE IMHO.
The Lighting Beam Cannon is also AOE and does a fire DOT. Mass agro again and death. Fair to decent damage, but again I can't use it in a group because it generates too much agro, and I have problems using solo for the same reason. At least the AOE is smaller than with the PFT.
PBC low damage, doesn't seem to penetrate. No utility.
Grenades funky damage mass agro, short state timers. Nades are more of a side show attraction. I've gotten 800+ out of thermals and protons, but given the long timers and the agro I only use these when fighting CL 20's 
.
I think that the idea of our weapons ramping up as we ramp up is decent, but I'd rather see us have specials. Keep the weapons at low dps, but give the special a large multiplier based on the commandos level. And increase the state recover timer while decreasing the state effect timer so your states stick longer and go on more often.
Exactly!!! With ALL bugs aside (currently im ive been discussing basically), we can't use the majority of utility given to us because of the disparity between combat levels.
With bugs included, that puts commandos in an even worse situation as those utilities are barely any real help anyways. When a dev told me that "commandos are given lots of utilities" I took it as, all our weapons have something to offer and hence utility from those weapons. We need A) Better effectiveness(DoTs doing decent damage, snares doing more than 1 second, less timers, better KD effects, elemental turned off etc) and 2) We need accesibility to that utility.
Currently we really have neither. And without either, we dont have "lots of utility".
Message Edited by StarNick on 06-08-2005 06:45 PM
StarNick wrote:
"What is left out is the 5 damage rating. That is what we all are angry at SOE about. That is why y'all asking for upping weapon damage. It wont work."
Its all a matter of point of view. Upping weapon damage equally, for all weapons, is bad. Allowing the ability to have a master commando have access to not 3 CL 50-54 weapons, but his entire arsenal is totally different.
If we were asking (really, discussing) upping weapon damage:That would mean, it would be the same for each weapon Damage would physically rise, far beyond what they should be
Why Ackehace's idea is not this:It is NOT the same for each weapon. The LP would be equilvent to a weapon around 40 levels higher, a PFT would stay the same. At master level, a LP will = CL 50/54. At master level, a HPBC = CL 50/54. At novice commando an LP = CL 14. Halfway through commando, a LP may = CL 30 like our HAR/HPBC.
The difference is that our weapons wouldn't work just off of a restrictive CL system since they're our utilities. Rather, at each respective level you are in commando, your low level HW would be on the level you're at. Hence, at master level your LP will be no different than the Proton Rifle or Plasma FT (more like the PR as the LP has no DoT). The set limit IS CL 54, and every CL 54 weapon is within an already defined parameters for speed, wound, and damage. It is impossible for a weapon to go over these defined parameters by themselves, and that is not what we're proposing. At its core, its making a master commando have 9 weapons and 6 grenades to choose from rather than 3 weapons and 2 grenades. Thats ALL the idea is about.
The only way a rifle can do 3200 damage is via snipershot - specials. If all our weapons were or were able to be modified to represent a CL 54 level, then all our weapons can do the 3200 damage if used with snipershot. The same goes with ANY CL 54 mastery weapon, and ANY CL54 weapon thats non-skill certed out there.
Then, we add in the DoTs, the innate states, and the AoE from (some) of the weapons which in combination to the ability to use our entire arsenal, is the epitome of utility. Its the SAME exact concept as giving commandos advanced versions of their heavy weapons (ie Advanced RL), except for the fact that there will be less schematics...and less things a commando will have to buy and spend money on.
It is apparent the devs consider us utility. That means, specials may most likely not get implented into the profession and thus we rely solely on our weapons. And according to Keldarin that 5 offense no longer applies. Our damage comes via utility - AoE, DoTs, Innate State effects, and elemental. Currently, our master level weapons only have DoTs...and they're the only useful. That leaves the majority of our utility rotting away. The elemental when fixed will give us a slight boost in damage over a regular AoE special that does 800-1000 dmg with a master weapon (so we should do 1000-1200 dmg, by ourselves with marksman specials). Allowing us access to that utility is now imperative, either through this or through getting more advanced weaponry at master level. It will give each of our weapons more roles (like the PFT was intended more AoE, less elemental while the FT was less AoE [hopefully we can get it to zero AoE], but more elemental). So some of our weapons will inherently do more state damage/restrictions/CC but less damage, while other HW will do more overall damage but lesser state damage/restrictions/CC. That is apparently what the Devs shot for originally with our weapons; and with all those weapons at a CL 50-54 level it should be balanced...
Hence, at master level we'll gain some weapons that do more elemental (hence damage) but no AoE, and the weapons that do more AoE already have less elemental. That'll help solve our issue with all AoE weapons.
Saying simply that we're asking "to up damage" is far too general, and IS unbalancing. That is not the goal here which is to bring all our weapons up to the respective CL 50-54 levels so we can use the utility they provide, very similiar ideas but at the same time VERY different from one another, especially when you take into account of how our weapons currently act in terms of states/aoe and damage...Message Edited by StarNick on 06-08-2005 06:11 PM
That sounds nice.
Yes I get the fact that at Master Commando all weapons will basically hit as hard as a Master Level weapon.
But am I missing something?
How does this help other templates?
Sure WE can Power-Up our Weapons even more with OTHERs abilities. But we are suppose to be good on our own. Now granted we might get the damage modifer, but that would be difficult to implement I think to a few specials. It could work. And that's what I don't like, the could part makes it to, well uncertain.
The point is we are of no use to anyone who doesn't want to use our weapons.
I still say no.
I don't want built in Weapon Specials. I want Specials I can use. We should help other professions with their weapons, not make them use our weapons. However Commando's should have the advantage of using their own weapons having a few specials that go well with our weapons, like most professions.
Look I don't want be Bizzaro Weapon Man.
Look if I take say Pistoleer. I want to effectively use weapons from both profession. That cannot happen with Commando, cause your basically saying unless you got a Commando weapon out, there's no point to Commando.
I do not and will not stand for that. It's also as demonstrated in the CU and past to easy for weapons to get bugged and un-useable. If you have Specials and if they aren't broke, you can still use other weapons.
Commando needs to be the Medium Range Heavy Damage Dealer. Why can this not happen? Is there something wrong with having 3 Damage Dealing Professions? That is what Commando needs to be.
Look what you guys are thinking about is nice, but only when your thinking about Commando. And then there's all the problems of us using specials with all the weapons with specials that could do some mass area attack with say a RL and KD everybody. There's just to many problems, that will eventually lead us to be nerfed or simply in-effective. This will setup for us way to many futrue problems.
Fix it now. By giving us Specials. I don't want to be some weirdo profession. I want Comamndo to be as normal as possible while fulfilling our role.
There is way to much importance being put into our weapons, when more consideration needs to go the actual profession, not it's weapons. I don't want Commando to be it's weapons. I want Commando to be useful for all, and still be preferable for those of us who truley love our PFT and RLs to use them. I will say it one more time. I don't want to be restricted to just my weapons being the best of my Template, I want all the Weapons I get to be equally useful, just being that Commando Heavy Weapons would be my top choice simply cause I like how they work.
By allowing commando to achieve the role that Keldarin has expressed, it will allow professions to gain more use out of us.
We do not want to be solely a toolbox profession (we all here agree that we'd like offensive specials and not built-in specials), and our own identity. By achieving our role, we allow other professions to benefit as when those professions reach their role likewise. This is only about commandos gaining their utility and giving them the ability to use it.
If we have access to 9 weapons and 6 grenades opposed to 3 weapons and 1-2 grenades...wouldn't another profession benefit right off from that? As it stands, other professions will get the primary benefit of being able to combine HW with their specials to produce combo attacks. Adding more variety, by allowing more use of lower level weapons, improves this. How does this not benefit either parties?
We wanted more versitility and variety, maybe the devs answered by giving us different utility. They implented it, so far, in perhaps one of the worst possible and 180 degrees differently from what the community wanted, but we do have a chance to achieve that aim. Achieving it, benefits not only ourselves but other professions.
Look guys, theres many solutions that have very different ways of achieving our primary goal in added variety. We're all offering our own, and we're actively discussing them in a socratic manner. This..I like, and I like encouraging too
The ultimate goal im pushing for: Something that fits in line with what the devs currently view commando as. We have yet to be given responses to our previous ideas...
Message Edited by StarNick on 06-08-2005 08:34 PM