Commando Archive
Thread: State of the Commando Address (December 2003)
I'd say move the HAR to the Flame tree, let the specials get shared (basically the same concept) - also change it to be an acid launcher/thrower as it should basically be a flamer for acid damage.
This frees up the HAR tree to have Launcher specials and put the machine gun type weapon mentioned earlier here - make this a continuation of suppression type specials i.e crowd management.
Grenades are rubbish IMO except for blowing lairs for combat xp, I really like the idea of a launcher for them though, this would make them worth using - or, you could use stacks of grenades to power you rocket launcher - they require proton grenades to craft currently (which makes them a real pain to make - you should drag stacks of grenades onto you RL in a similar way to powerups - this would make it a much more versatile weapon.
Change the graphic for HAR (/Acidthrower) - also, i'd like to point out that when I group, I feel a bit embarrased to use my launcher - It is basically graphical spam. The explosions are way out of line - they completely block all view for melee and cause the FPS to lower as a result.
Apart from that, pretty much what everyone else said...
well if the HAR turns out to be 'hard' to 'code' (i think the reason is unwillingness to code it really) , then the har must be turned into the commando's mid-range weapon. and receive specials that both the har and the launcher pistol can use.
in that case, then the HAR tree should look like:
box1: Beam Rifle Lase 1ability (lase only lasts 5 seconds or until commando stands up to move, this attack will kneel the commando), Launcher Pistol 5 second Warcry shot, HAR Acid Single 1 (acid single 1 will do about 3k damage max, and instead of a DOT, it should lower target's ranged and melee defenses by 50% for 20 seconds).
box2: launcher pistol 3X damage, 3X delay to refire shot , Beam Rifle Single1 (2k max damage focused beam that can be fired from 64m even).
box3: HAR Acid cone 1 (Same as acid single1, but in cone effect), many accuracy modifiers for the pistol, beam rifle and har accuracy here.
box4: beam rifle cone 1, launcher pistol homingshot (shot dont miss, but no extra damage than a normal shot), HAR single2 (like single1, except single2 adds the effect of immobilize for 10 seconds).
master box: beam rifle lase 2 ability (same as lase 1 , but lasts 10 seconds), HAR acid cone 2 (same as acid single2, but in cone effect).
for correspondent: another bug: the heavy weapons have in their stats a 6m radius damage . this does not work. you can shoot a rocket at a trio of players practically occupying the same space and only one of them takes damage. for an even better test, find a spawn point of npc's... you should find some that have about 10 npc's huddled together in the same spot (nashal medic center city exit comes to mind). fire rocket at 1 of them... only the one you shot at dies, the 9+ other npcs dont even get a scratch).
i would also suggest removing the unarmed requirement for commando. change it for the original requirement, as stated in the manual, of engineering4.
with engineering 4 as pre-req, commandos should receive schematics for all their weapons at novice commando and master commando lines (novice= grenades up to box3, hpbc,lightning cannon... acid streamer at box2 of heavy weapons, rocket launcher at master box).
schematics should be changed to use non-specific metals (aka, 'ferrous metal' instead of 'steel' for component, 'nonferrous' instead of 'phrik aluminum').
now, this creates 2 effects: first, the commando is able to craft his own weapons... BUT since he is not a weaponsmith, he get NO experimentation. result? a weaponsmith made rocket launcher will be 5X better than a commando made rocket launcher. second effect is that weaponsmiths will be able to make these heavy weapons of good quality for commandos... right now most wepsmiths dont make grenades or heavy weapons because it takes toooo long to make, are tooo hard to find components for (especially rocket launchers) and in the end, cost a fortune for a weapon that has limited charges!.
if commando and weaponsmith can make the weapons with simpler materials, then the amount of charges is not an issue no more.. 5 grenades per pack is a-ok just as long as they are plentiful to come by, and not super expensive.
for example,
rocket launcher made by commando, using THE best materials : min 1000 max 2500. spd 8.0
same RL made by weaponsmith, using the same, best materials: min 2500 max 5200 spd 5.0.
catch my drift?
Another point:
The Beam Rifle. I have one hanging on my wall at home, bought way way back when the fact it didn't have a cert wasn't common knowledge.
FIX THE CERT. Make it use rifleman specials for now to compliment the LP. Eventually add its own specials with the LP.
Long term goal with this weapon could be a very high AP (something that punches through armor, so like AP 3), medium damage, long range. Make the LP shorter range. This could be our long strike weapon (i don't consider HW's a long range weapon but rather a very special case weapon (i.e. turrets, atsts, etc.)).
The issue would be how to make it not a copy of the T-21 (besides the fact that riflemen shouldn't be wielding an AP 3 rifle)...
Zarkonan wrote:DoT that reduces the armor resistances of a target over time (2% per second or whatever). I mean- its acid! Its supposed to burn through armor (orignal dev intention was to have it attack condition of armor and clothing, which i like, but given the current reaction to decay highly unlikely)
I don't like this idea as it would turn the HAR in to the griefer's tool. I can see it now, "He killed me, but F'ed up his 90% krayt composite armor! OH YEAH!"
The heavy acid rifle should be at least AP1 for the sake of consistancy amongst acid weapons, if nothing else.
If they add any new grenades, I'd really like to see a Stun grenade.
As for the role of the commando, I would like to be an anti-personel class rather than an anti-vehicle class for the simple reason that are plenty of people and almost no vehicles to fight.
TAC: "and instead of a DOT, it should lower target's ranged and melee defenses by 50% for 20 seconds"
This would be just as good in my opinion, though i would prefer lowering armor resistance by X% for 20 seconds since it is more in keeping with the logic of being sprayed by acid.
Glad you included the Beam Rifle into your layout- boggles my mind why this is coded but not yet fixed.I like your suggestions for its specials. I've fired my Beam Rifle and it really doesn't even need graphics, just some rework.
Unarmed vs. Engineering
I don't like the idea of bringing back eng 4. Don't think it would add any fun or realism or SW logic. Unarmed at least provides some defense when someone or something gets close. I wouldn't replace it with anything except requiring one of any brawler tree (i.e. you choose one of between unarmed, 2 hand, 1 hand, andpike)...
- HAR accuracy bonus does not stack
Yes I'd prefer to use the HAR to be honest but this has gotten to be a real pain so I've switched to the flamer for the time being.
From what I've tested around on and read about, these seem to be the only bugs we have, that are actually bugs. Though I haven't had a chance to actually test the blast radius personally, I get conflicting reports on it from in-game people I have asked. Some say they see it work, some say no . . . could I get an overall confirmation on this one?
I personally think that the 12 second delay after using acidsingle1 is a bug as well since it can't be totally related to the speed skill mod and sounds more like a calculation in the delay is screwed.
HAR's own type of burn attack, some sort of Acid/Chemical burn, to make it more unique.
I don't like this idea. It's simply turning it into another flamethrower so it definently does NOT make it unique.
Special Ranged Attacks for the HAR. This would make it the Rifle it's supposed to be, not another FT knock off.
I think that the HAR needs to be put into amidrange support role to support the flamer which has a steep accuracy drop in the 30-45m range, the HAR should be designed to focus the bulk of it's power into this region perhaps with the benefit of specials which cause an area of effect damage in the form of 'splash damage' since it is a liquid after all.
AP 2 for the Acid Rifle. It's a Heavy version of the others that all have AP1, but we don't need competition with our own Heavy Weapons Tree. There is a reason for it to exist.
I think that the fact it'd be AP2 is pointless since acid vulnerability is fairly common compared to other types such as energy and heat that are commonly protected against. Therefore the HAR wouldn't benefit from such an ability plus medium armor is now going to be very rare under the new CL rating system. Indeed only CL100+ mobs actually have it.
If you want suggestions for how to give it a unique flavour then focus on the fact it's spraying corrosivechemicals. Thus blinding should be a common status effect and would greatly benefit the commando who has no ranged defence plus in a support role the ability to hamper the enemies vision and accuracy would be valuable for the group. It might also be a good idea if the HAR is capable of a knockdown effect since pressurized acid/chemicals is very similar to how the riot police usewater hoses to deal with groups of people by knocking them down and generally making it hard for them to stand upright. At present the commando completely lacks the ability to helps support the group their in against multiple mobs and there isn't another profession which is capable of it either. Make the HAR the riot control weapon by giving it area of effect specials, blinding and a special that is weak in power but designed to knock mobs over with a quick recharge time so it can be used rapidly against multiple targets.
Jazhul: "I don't like this idea as it would turn the HAR in to the griefer's tool. I can see it now, "He killed me, but F'ed up his 90% krayt composite armor! OH YEAH!""
My fault. I meant all HAR effects should be temporary.
Yes, there must be some kind of Rapid Firing Weapon. Be movies or in real-life, commandos know and use rapid firing weapons, either SMG's (SWG IE: Carbines) or MG's (SWG IE: Doesn't exist) or HMG's (SWG IE: Doesn't Exist). The E-Web and Repeating Blasters are good examples.
Secondly the Heavy Weapons will need to be upgraded. AT-ST's are getting bumped to 55k HAM, correct? There goes the realism of being able to bring out the rocket launcher and knocking out a tank. AT-ST's are scout vehicles, just like M-3's and M-2's AFV's (Armored Fighting Vehicles). They are not M-1's MBT's (Main Battle Tanks). With such upgrades, the anti-armor weapons will need to be upgraded as well.
Grenades also need the ability to be tossed while not exposing one's self. For example, being near to a corner of a building and lobbing the grenade around the side. May be too challenging of a code to program. Great to use if there was Line of Sight (LOS) rules involved.
The Unarmed Combat Tree needs to be dropped unless there was some reason for commandos to kill someone/thing quietly or were using weapons would be bad (ie: fighting in a fusion reactor facility). That would involve some role-playing game content to be added. Unarmed combat for commandos only exist for role-playing purposes, which is absent in this "hack & slash" system. Such a skill set would be more appropiately spent on the Exploration tree due to land navigation skills (IE: How to use a compass and protractor and how to pace count).
Right now our heavy weapons are well . . . I'd say decent to be optimistic about it. The thing is they seem to lack the punch they are made to do, we have to stop and kneel to fire them, so we become vulnerable each shot. Besides they are way too expensive per shot, to make them viable in many situations, making it hard for Commando's to gain access or afford them. Ideas for the HW's we have:*
Personally I think that the heavy weapons are ideal in how they are used, the fact you need to be positioned right and use them with much preperation is idea. The power on them at the moment is ideal, however with the new CL rating system we're seeing things like the AT-ST increasing to around 55k HAM which means that weapons like the rocket launcher aren't even going to make a dent before the AT-ST blasts it way through your group. You'd need around 7 clear shots and 1/3 of a rocketlaunchers charges to kill a single AT-ST which is 'supposed' to be a lightly armored scouting vehicle. If a pair of logs can be swung down and totally crush an AT-ST cabin then a rocklet launcher blast or two should utterly ruin them.
Under the new system these weapons need to have their power DOUBLED to still be worthwhile, either that or the charges on them needs to be drastically increased to compensate for the fact you'd need to waste almost half of 130k spent on the weapon to take down a single mob which wouldn't redeem the cost for it in resources, loot or even in exp.
Increase the number of shots to each weapon, or make ammo kits, so that it is not so expensive to use. Also running out mid combat, with limited inventory to carry another weapon or five is not a good situation. A crate of ammo might help with this.
One solution might be to have the rocketlauncher itself as a costly weapon however it needs to have rockets loaded into it which are a very cheap item to produce. It would kind of be like how a fishing rod works by dropping bait into it to provide the charges, the difference is that the items are produced in seperate crates. This could actually be done for all disposable weapons meaning they are still costly to operate however not nearly as bad as at the momenet, you'd pay a one time fee for the expensive launcher which would decay like any normal weapon and very small fee for the projectiles that you load into it.
This also adds an additonal stage of preperation to the heavy weapons as you need to 'lock n load'for each shot 
.The grenades need an overhaul to become something viable within the game. Issues from range, expenses, number of grenades in a stack ... Increase the actual accuracy of the grenades.
I'd say the number one reason why I don't use grenades is the accuracy, i mean these things may be difficult to hit the target with since they're hand thrown however they are area of effect weapons so they should almost always hit something. You can't cause an explosion and find that someone who was 2m from the impact point is unharmed. Ideally i think that a novice commando should have accuracy at +50 giving them a nice decent amount of accuracy. Then increase the speed and last +50 points on the way to master. The damage for these weapons is nice, the range is terrible as they need to be used at 15m when it should be around double that specially since their blastradius is around 7m!
Add Special Abilities for Commandos. Something like military style Unarmed hits, brutish, slow, but damaging and debilitating.
Commando's in real life were originally well know for a single reason, the combat knife and dirty fighting tactics. This might be why the unarmed requirement was added however in the game that potential has been left untouched. Perhaps along with field tactics you gained additional unarmed abilities and a certification for a special commando knife. This could be used for a number of nasty special attacks like a heavy bleeding strike.. ideally the commando should have an extention of the melee fighting similar to how a smuggler has extensions of pistols skills. I hestitate that a knockdown might be needed however when someone rams a 4 inch piece of sharp metal into your gut you tend to fall to your knees in aggony
Perhaps the knife could even have AP1 as it's part of the weapons a commando uses against light infantry who would typically have basic body armor.
Nothing causes fear greater than that little puff of smoke and small, "tink" sound the HAR makes when firing. I know this is a wish, but I would think it could look a little cooler, any ideas on how to make it look? This is one I think should be changed, but not always great at the "cool look" aspect.
The HAR is a total joke when it comes to being fired, the visual and aureal effects make even a common slap to the face sound more powerful. I'd personally like to see the HAR fire large grenade-like canisters of acid which is similar to a grenade launcher and have a similar meaty sound rushof pressurized airthat the M47 does. The impact from the canister should be fairly messy and scatter the acid around the area, where the dropplets land the ground should smoulder as the acid eats away.
The acid spray i think needs it's speed increased and should have a similar 'splatter' effect, at the moment it moves and sounds just like the flamethrower effects but it's green. If this is supposed to be liquid thats being fired then it needs more weight and substance.
One nice thing might be that any target hit with the HAR should still smoulder and release a bit of smoke as the acid continues to eat away, this doesn't have to be accompanied by a DOT effect but the visual feedback would be impressive and satisfying. Hhhsssssssssssss......
well the unarmed requirement is really ridiculous for the commando.. we are really a ranged class, with no actual melee attacks in our trees. so why unarmed? engineering4 oth, with ability to craft our own average quality expendables is a much better solution imo. it dont put wepsmiths out of bussiness..it will give them more bussiness if the material requirements are changed letting them mass produce it, resulting in commandos buying them by the crateloads... and it wont make a commando not be able to use 2 of his skill trees because he is too poor to afford them or because there is no wepsmith around that is willing to make them (the last 2seem to be the case right now).
a while back i suggested commando receive a 'support machine gun' sort of weapon.
SPD 1.0 , damage 20 min 50 max, accuracy -10 @10m, +20 @ 25m +20 @64m, kinetic damage.
weapon must be fired from kneeling or prone position (making it a static weapon).
this machine gun, instead of being a damage dealer, will, per shot fired, hit the target with one of the following random effects : blind, dizzy, stun, knockdown, warcry1,supression fire, warning shot, threaten shot. weapon will fire in 'area of effect' and 'single target' modes, with aoe mode hitting targets 20m in radius of target being shot at.
for groups, this weapon will allow the commando to be the crowd-controller. if group gets aggroed by 10 red creatures, this weapon can potentially fend off most of them by keeping them away or unable to overwhelm the group. this goes nicely with the flamecone ability of the commando..if theres another commando in group, he can flamecone while the other guy uses the machine gun.
in pvp this is even better. a pair of commandos with MG's set up can seriously hamper the ability of an incoming group of faction hostiles from long range. just like in real life, a well placed mg nest can keep an even larger force at bay... only that the low damage of the commando mg will not turn it into a deathtrap, but rather into a weapon that will allow your faction-members to attack and repel attacks with their own firepower.
-Field Repairs
*A Commando, I feel, is the overall field fighter. These are the guys, besides a BH, who can go into the wilds and come out the other side just as "pretty" as when they began. Now some sort of field repair could help this: It would be a temporary fix to armor or weapons, but at a higher risk and worse fix than a Master Armorsmith/Weaponsmith could do. But in a pinch if that armor is gonna bust the next shot you take, you can squeeze out an extra few hits from it.
I like this, the concept of a commando being able to field strip a weapon and reassemble it to recover it's condition is perfectly valid but not fantastically useful, so I'd suggest and extention of this. They also know how to squeeze more damage fromweapons according to the notes about how they produce the cone attacks so how about this... the commando could make temporary adjustments to the weapons similar to if someone applied a power up to them. This would kinda be like a temporary slice however it doesn't require any tools and is focussed totally towards increasing the power output of the weapon. This might drop the need for weapon powerups a bit however it makes the commando even more useful in groups, the commando could even do this to heavy weapons to compensate for the fact they cannot use power ups on them anyway.
Perhaps even a minor armor protection boost would be possible as well, that would be very handy as temporary armor power ups don't exist so it's not cutting into anyones market.
There is also one other thing that I think a commando needs to have the ability to do, plant explosives. This would be similar to a temporary minefield with the exception that the commando can trigger the explosion. That opens up new combat possibilities as commandos can set up explosives while others lure the target near to them, the commando trigger them blowing the hall out of the target. In PvE this isn't very useful unless your lure a group of mobs into the blast radius however in the GCW this would bring in some great possibilities for tactics and even more so when vehicles are added.
I didn't read all the posts b/c as passionate as we are about our class, we tend to be long-winded.
There's a bug that wasn't mentioned before. HW's can't be used inside caves (possibly indoors at all). A little tough to use my lightning beam cannon on those droideka's in the droideka cave.
As for the other stuff the only thing I can say is, I truelly hope we can get some sort of e-web weapon. This just sounds like too much fun and it seems to fit what a commando should be.
ah for an edit button.. Anyway, i didn't read them all so i won't repeat what's been said before. The original ideas are for the most part very representative and good. Although I myself don't care for the field repair idea.