Commando Archive
Thread: Well...At least someone has fixed Grenades... (semi-rant)
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SinjenRandall
Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:54 am
#14
Well, since we are ranting, let me tell you what isn't fun about this from my perspective.
I am averaging about 5k per shot on my Heavy Support weapons when you count misses, counterattacks, dodges, blocks, and whatever else. To my knowledge, the credits per shothasn't changed today.
Why would Ispend a fortune on Rocket Launchers, Thermal Detonators, Proton Grenades, Cryoban Grenades, Lightning Beam Cannons, Acid Stream Launchers, Particle Beam Cannons, grenade wiring kits, slices, and whatever else in my pack that I am leaving out?
Why would I do that? Because I was having fun shooting them. Because I could.
But what has changed is nowNPC's will be doing Cho Mokk or Advanced Strafe shot on my defenseless rear-end while I am waiting for the delay on my weapons to go through the queue. What does this mean for me? Well, it means I won't be using any of our expensive limited use weapons because they will only get me killed for trying. Before, I at least had a chance to play and have fun.
Nice way to highlight with intense neon what is broken about our profession so soon after telling us that fixes won't be coming any time soon. I know that everyone has been complaining about this very thing for a long time, but at least before today I didn't let my complaints, or anyone else's for that matter, stop me.
Today is different.
Vagrantprodigy
Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:50 pm
#15
I also noticed the grenade issue on the TC.When I waskilling Pirates from Imperial missions out of skystone, I kept getting spammed with Cybrobans. I didn't really mind, since I only got hit once, for like 100, and I wasn't armored, but still, it kinda bugged me that they weren't getting hurt by them.
StarNick
Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:34 pm
#16
Heh I wanna be an NPC... 
Seriously tho, this...is stupid...I haven't tried out combat yet since this update, but hopefully we won't be having NPCs all of a suddenly hitting for 500-1k dmg (LOW lvl NPCs for that matter)
We have always been at a huge disadvantage to NPCs....less HAM, but always better with firepower (in -some- cases....only should be for soloeable stuff, NOT things like Nova Troopers and whatnot)...making basic NPCs with 3+ times the amount of ham we have, hit for the same amount, and further injury as well as insult....make it so they do not adhere to the same delays/ham costs/etc (except for dmg modifiers!)
/shrug\ Hopefully this isnt the case (as i havent tested the new changes on live or TC)...but even though there should be grouping, especially for higher Mobs...Im not exactly enthralled of having to find a group or have friends on each time I want to go hunting...
Kershakk
Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:53 pm
#17
As a weaponsmith with a soft spot for heavy expendables, I've always been curious what the beta grenade enhancements that were commando crafted? Does anyone happen to know? All I know (or have heard, really, so it's hearsay) that commandos during beta complained about not being crafters and asked for this ability to be removed (which I never understood, if it was not taking anything away from the profession - it's not like it was choose between flamers and grenade part crafting, was it?) and what we're left with is useless grenade experimentation skill tapes and empty slots when crafting grenades.
I'd be very keen to see a return of crafted grenade enhancers which come in a variety of state application effects. Example, there's a couple of slots to enhance a proton grenade say, in which you could add up to two state effects. Could be a combination of something like :
- Concussion Pulse Channelling - add a KD
- Photon Flash Flare - add a blind
- Sonic Amplifer - add a stun
- Monofilament fragmentation casing - add a bleed
.... etc
So you could put a concussion pulse and a photo flash into a proton grenade and have KD/Blind chance effects on the grenade. I don't think you should be able to make a Dizzy/KD grenade though, that would probably be asking too much 
I know I've strayed off the topic, sorry
Evelas
Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:54 pm
#18
My theory is that the dev team split in half, 1 half doing JTL, the other half continuing SWG. However, my theory sadly states that the half covering SWG is the newb half, while the half covering JTL is the uber half.
meeuki
Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:28 am
#19
recently i decided to pick up commando and i was *astounded* at the damage of some of your weapons....
until i fired them.
i hope you all get your love and get it soon, without a doubt this profession has the coolest damn guns in the game and it's a crying shame you haven't gotten your fixes yet.
until i fired them.
i hope you all get your love and get it soon, without a doubt this profession has the coolest damn guns in the game and it's a crying shame you haven't gotten your fixes yet.
Datchery
Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:10 am
#20
/agree Garvin
That's what saddens me most about Commando, my grenades are/were worthless to me as they took forever to throw, often missed, and if the radius was big enough, would hit metoo...(making them utterly worthless vs anything that closes to melee range...i.e. flamethrower range.
StarNick
Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:22 am
#21
Devs said for them to put code in for NPCs to have time delay and such would take a week of the devs coding and working with QA...
Whenever something like this happens they always fire back they would have to put most of the team on it for a few days....so what? SO BE IT.
They can't multi-task and yet still try so. Its better for them (shouldve been done at first) for them to work things out fully and such rather than let it pile up.
Most likely we wont see this new code till publish 12 (like how Publish 7 introduced the bug, that this fixes)
Still tho.....why would this require new code? why not slap and past while tweak the same code from the user side? Make the NPCs follow the same rules as we do...
Ster
Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:22 am
#22
I might be looking at this too simply as well, but I would think it isnt that bad. Whenever I go code, once a rule is set for one object it is usually relatively simple to set it for another similiar object.
StarNick wrote:
Devs said for them to put code in for NPCs to have time delay and such would take a week of the devs coding and working with QA...
Whenever something like this happens they always fire back they would have to put most of the team on it for a few days....so what? SO BE IT.
They can't multi-task and yet still try so. Its better for them (shouldve been done at first) for them to work things out fully and such rather than let it pile up.
Most likely we wont see this new code till publish 12 (like how Publish 7 introduced the bug, that this fixes)
Still tho.....why would this require new code? why not slap and past while tweak the same code from the user side? Make the NPCs follow the same rules as we do...
DragonSnack
Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:00 am
#23
I Just a couple observations in the vein...
((Just got trained on Master Commando the other night and I'll wear the tag when I think I've earned it. Meantime I'm sporting an Explorer tag. I'm adding MBH to see what I get.))
While running around Corellia Iencountered 5 or 6 Grek(sp) smugglers. I tossed a proton grenade at them and I didn't see any graphics that looked as if the grenade exploded. My first grenade toss so I didn't know whatI'd see.
Even though I dropped it at the feet of two of the NPCsit had absolutely no effect on them. Cost me some HAM points though.
I'll need to experiment with grenades before I use any more of them,
The other item:
For some reason whenever I venture into Kareen (Flurry) I manage to get scanned. I had a BH mission or I would have stayed out of there.
Anyway...
My mark was at the top of the first set of "steps" leading away from the star port and as I approched him a ST decided that he wanted to take a look atmy stuff. I objected by using my FL on him. Of course the ST resented that so he attacked back bykiting me. It was really funny to watch the ST dance around while I wastoasting him. The St looked as if he was taking part in a square dance.
I also didn't seethe ST using a weapon but he was shooting me. What I also didn't wsee was his two buddiies standing behind me.
I go the ST, one of his buddies, and the other got me but it was close. I did go back and let that guy know how I felt about being DBed.
Oh well more experience and i'll learn to take on groups.
By the way I do have some CH so I let me little dog take on the BH mark. He killed my little dog.. I should have used my big one.
He also paid for abusing my poochie.
Evelas
Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:12 am
#24
Wear the Demolitionist tag, thats the coolest one
DragonSnack wrote:
Just got trained on Master Commando the other night and I'll wear the tag when I think I've earned it.
.
lisasdarren
Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:38 am
#25
Justa thought, but have the way NPCs perform these actions changed from how things were before they were broken and stopped doing specials?
I suspect that the way NPCs throw grenades now is how they threw them before, when they could...
All that is happened is the code that allows them to use specials has been fixed and they are now back where they were several months ago...
I agree that they need to fix grenades so that we don't hurt ourselves when using them, but thats not really the point. You cannot compare AI controled NPCs abilities to players abilities. They have to be different, thats how challenges are added and exploits avoided... AI can never match a player for the ability to plan and problem solve and so cannot be given exactly the same rules.
They have not fixed grenade use for NPCs if you think back nothing has actually changed from before publish 7 or whenever it was NPCs were broken.
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