Commando Archive
Thread: My Brothers!
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StarNick
Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:22 pm
#14
on that day the skies will be filled with the ominous trails of our rockets and the skies will be lite with the belchings of our flamethrowers...
Heh, is that all? I was thinking of bringing some machine guns and Nukes... =)
And ahh yes...the Return of the Commando...it'll be a glorious day....
The few of us who have stood together and for so long....our wrath shall finally be unleashed, and all hell will break loose!
-Commando Prophesy, 334-25 Chapter 4 of the Commando Scriptures
Excess3
Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:07 am
#16
Is that a wookie tanking in that screenshot???
Oh, and nice wounds. Very nice wounds.
Oh, and nice wounds. Very nice wounds.
tacwraith
Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:39 am
#17
Starnick, Commando IS a support class.
Before you blow off let me tell you why: We're not tanks. Anything that is not a tank in this game is a support class. (im talking someone who is just master commando, not master commando/master tka)
Riflemen, Pistoleer, Carbineers are all high DPS (damage per second) proffessions, read: firepower support classes.
Commando however, is not a high DPS class. Its a front-loaded damage class. We fire ONE shot that should do the same damage as any of the other proffessions do in the same amount of time we take to fire another shot.
Front-loaded damage classes are always more 'support' than any other combat classes, for we do rely on other classes to work with us (or to have several other commandos with us..the point is we need someone ELSE) to be truly effective.
Go out with a group, pack some powered up and sliced proton grenades and rocket launchers/HPBC's. Go hunt something big..like a kimoglia or something. And use your weapons freely.. dont cheap out. Go in, fire dot the kimo, then lob rockets at it and chuck protons into its gut.
Time how long it takes for your group to kill it with you doing that. Next kimoglia dont use your rockets or protons, just go in there and use the flamer or HAR or LP. Time how long it takes your group to kill it.
Even though your group remains the same, just by using your expendables you drastically reduce the group's time to kill the kimoglia, not because you outdamage them (we all know all other combat profs outdamage commando), but because you PUNCH in ONE combat round what other profs would need to do in 5 or 6 combat rounds. Target's ham bar moves down a lot quicker with you doing the front-loaded damage with rockets and your team-mates doing high dps in the same time.
Yes, we commandos ARE support. The kind of support that makes things go BOOM.
Before you blow off let me tell you why: We're not tanks. Anything that is not a tank in this game is a support class. (im talking someone who is just master commando, not master commando/master tka)
Riflemen, Pistoleer, Carbineers are all high DPS (damage per second) proffessions, read: firepower support classes.
Commando however, is not a high DPS class. Its a front-loaded damage class. We fire ONE shot that should do the same damage as any of the other proffessions do in the same amount of time we take to fire another shot.
Front-loaded damage classes are always more 'support' than any other combat classes, for we do rely on other classes to work with us (or to have several other commandos with us..the point is we need someone ELSE) to be truly effective.
Go out with a group, pack some powered up and sliced proton grenades and rocket launchers/HPBC's. Go hunt something big..like a kimoglia or something. And use your weapons freely.. dont cheap out. Go in, fire dot the kimo, then lob rockets at it and chuck protons into its gut.
Time how long it takes for your group to kill it with you doing that. Next kimoglia dont use your rockets or protons, just go in there and use the flamer or HAR or LP. Time how long it takes your group to kill it.
Even though your group remains the same, just by using your expendables you drastically reduce the group's time to kill the kimoglia, not because you outdamage them (we all know all other combat profs outdamage commando), but because you PUNCH in ONE combat round what other profs would need to do in 5 or 6 combat rounds. Target's ham bar moves down a lot quicker with you doing the front-loaded damage with rockets and your team-mates doing high dps in the same time.
Yes, we commandos ARE support. The kind of support that makes things go BOOM.
aeuralis
Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:05 am
#18
It has been written that the sign that will hearld the coming of the age of the commando is the opening of the heavens. Even now we are beginning to see the strange signs that herald that opening of the heavens. Signs like shiny armor and Strange people offering mysterious skills.
Keep the faith, my brothers. Garvin has said that the opening of the heavens is upon us and soon we shall be avenged. Soon the flame will burn our enemies and they shall be afraid.
StarNick
Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:01 am
#20
Tac,
Point taken, however....we are more of a Hybrid Support Class (not fully a support class, as many non-commandos think we should be) Gernades and Disposables are only half of our profession, that does not constitute us being full support and nothing else.
As long as we have Disposables and Gernades, that will always be considered support - im talking about for the rest of our profession that involves our badly wanted Assault Rifle/Repeater Rifle....Flamer...HAR...LP, those weapons make us unique (or will)and not just another class to support the backs of a FOTM.
Anyways not to mention, usually our Disposables aren't really all that useful when you group up with profs that actually do AP on their standard weapons....
Everything you said is in the now, most of us I would think wouldn't want to be limited as we are now in the future....and thats exactly what a full support class is...which should not be in a 169 sp profession, there should be broad characteristics rather than just one role of support - after all, we are a hybrid of various skills, why should our role be that narrow?
Grakis
Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:09 am
#21
The fact that we even HAVE "tanks" is kind of silly. Think about it. I mean, we can't damage people who we aren't in a duel with/opposite overt factions from. But seriously, if you were in a firefight, would it be beneficial to have your friend up there fighting hand to hand with the same guy you're shooting at? No, he' get shot.
I personally think that ranged classes (especially commando and BH) should have the same kind of defense against ranged attacks that melee have against melee attacks.
tacwraith
Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:02 pm
#22
star, the flamethrower is also a front-loaded damage weapon (high damage but long delay remember?) ..the HAR , well we both know its useless now anyway.
The LP is about the only true non-frontloaded damage weapon we have.
So tell me, are we not the heavy firepower support?
The LP is about the only true non-frontloaded damage weapon we have.
So tell me, are we not the heavy firepower support?
VolvoSsixtyTsix
Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:55 pm
#23
Well guys, commando ruled when there was no buffs or armor. One /aim/flamesingle2 was doing the job, and people were running away from you when you show your "grenadier' title. Now with amor and dot that dies in 40 seconds or less, commandos come with 'shock trooper' titleshoot once get KD and die. I think this is not fair, since in the RL if you set someone aflame they burn, and while they on fire they don't think about attacking you, they think of how to extinguish themselves. Commando should be a PvP proffession,commando sets someone on fire causes them to burn, then with heavy acid rifle finishes them. But I also think that commando needs some defenses, and faster execution of attacks with flame/HAR.
SPARTAK
StarNick
Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:02 am
#24
Heh, as I saw today in PvP...the Flamer couldnt even beat an buffed unarmoured player on a mount 
...
...Anyways, Tac....again, you're talking about in the now, rather than in the future...you don't know exactly what will become of us...none of us do, save for that one special person....
As it stands now, we're not really anything of support anyhow, sure we make some groups have an easier time in various dungeons due to the stacking of our dots (which IS a bug afterall, how much do you think we'll be effective if they ever fix this bug before the combat upgrade?), but most of the time we get little reward, and as a result are fairly limited.
How as I see it, theres a difference between Support and Hvy Hitters....we're a combo of the two....a Rocket Launcher is a support weapon, as its a special case scenario-used toy (in many aspects to how our FT/HAR were originally intended back so long ago, hence them being "Special" and that our LP would be our main weapon - perhaps our Hvy Hitting frontline action weapon....if the Assault Rifle ever was implented, we could actually go back to this system...but we'd need a new Assault Tree to do it...), then we have the unique hvy hitting weapons....just because the Flamer hits hard (or at least, heh, should) and has a long delay, doesn't necessary mean its a support-only weapon.
I guess its our perspective on the meaning of Support....a Sniper is technically support, and not a front-line soldier...but if properly used or hidden, he can operate on his own. Our HW weapons is this type of support, but we do have (and want) the skillls of hvy hitting frontline action.....for BH,their bounty hunting reflects thescout pre-req for BH (rather than our Support abilities) but at the same time are also frontline soldiers (or should be, before things got messed up)....the all combat pre-reqs reflects for us,coupled with UA IV...we gain the Support abilities, but from the Marksman abilities we gain frontline abilities similiar to BH as well...
Anyways, this is my opinion on what commando -should- be, what it is now...is going to change greatly...and hopefully to the hybrid described above, which based on the pre-reqs, is how it should've been in the first place....
In the past, we've always talked about how we wanted to be versitile...being restricted solely to front-loaded dmg style support (in perspective of just being a support class that makes things go boom, rather than a seperation of general HW support and Hvy hitting frontline action) would do away with this versitile yearning...
Its late...post may not read fully right heh...but in summary:
Commando should be versitile - meaning: Support/Frontline abilities....all Frontline....or all Support, defeats the purpose of the commando as the community wants it to be...
Message Edited by StarNick on 10-24-2004 04:05 AM
StarNick
Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:12 am
#25
Dont want to re-edit it again...but heres also another point:
We're a Hybrid....this can mean two things:
1) We're a Hybrid of Support Skills
2) We're a Hybrid of Skills
#1 Is what you're taking the perspective of commando on....for #2 is my arguement. In my opinion, the latter fits commando more as neither Master Marksman or UA IV denotes Support, combined definately...but thats not our only skill...we're a composite of many combat skills that make (or should make) the commando a force to be reckoned with.
Whenever I think of commando solely being support, I always think back to Infantry Online...the Heavy Weapons Specialist....who had powerful ka-boomly rockets, mortors, MMLs, etc...but was both slow in movement, slow in reloading, and very easy to kill (was not certed to wear hvy armours). This does not translate very well in a skill point system...especially into a profession with the most skill points to master.
Instead, we're deeper and more versitile...
Also, in Infantry Online....the Commando (later named Infiltrator) was the weakest of all the classes, but had cloaking and sniping abilities...so really, there are many takes on what exactly makes a commando (take Battlefront...the ARC Commandos are the Missile Troopers...all Support in that game)...so it is up to us to find out who we are. From the boards, I think the majority want versitility and depth in the profession, consisting of several combat roles (allowing us to adapt to battlefield conditions quickly....since we're an all-combat hybrid)
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