Commando Archive
Thread: HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO GRIND WHEN ALL OF OUR WEAPONS DO AREA ATTACKS!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Raanan
Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:55 am
#14
/sigh
/begin mutter to self
Why must people not pay attention to their weapons?
/end mutter to self
You do not need to even switch your weapon to a non aoe weapon to pull. Look at your weapon description. See that line called "range?" It has a small number and a big numer known as minimum range and maximum range. (caps lock for emphasis) KNOW YOUR F-CKING RANGE! (end caps lock for emphasis).
What surprises me is, no one seems to understand, the radius of a weapon doesn't not extend past the maximum range of the weapon. Once a mob is beyond the maximum range you will not hit it no matter if you shoot at something right in front of it.
1.Place yourself so the mob is at your maximum range (just until the "out of range" text goes away if you're too lazy to read the meter you have between you and your target).
2. Make surethere is no mob in front of your target or within the radius on either side.
3. Fire and run back a few meters so another mob doesn't wander into your weapons range.
It's as simple as that. Amazing what you can learn from just bloody reading your weapon's description.
Knowledge is your friend!
Raanan
Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:13 am
#15
I'm completely and totally serious when I say all you have to do is pay attention to your range and radius. There is no excuse for a commando pulling to much agro. It's not a failure of the profession but a failure of the player. Use your God given mind and figure out how to use the profession. Aside from some bugs and alot ofbalancing oddities, commando is really not that bad. It's actually pretty good.
Skabik
Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:33 am
#16
I am sure someone else has thought of this, but...
Couldn't they make an aoeskill for commandos to do aoe with their weapons (and their weapons only). All of the specials that the commando would have would be single target. It could be either an attack special or a toggle of somekind so that they could do aoe specials. I think this might help out... 
Raanan
Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:12 am
#17
We had that. It was called flame single and flame cone. This way is better. Quit your b-tching and learn to use our weapons to their full potential. Unless of course you want to be a sh-tty commando. For that matter, if you can't take the time to at least TRY to figure out how to use our inherent aoe succesfully (which isn't hard at all), then why bother playing a game like this at all? Go pick up the latest single player rpg and the strategy guide and have everyone tell you how to do it.
Yes, I'm flaming (commando pun! yeah! lol) but there is NO PROBLEM with our inherent aoe except the fact it doesn't do damage like it's supposed to. We don't need to go back to how we were, we just need what we have to be fixed...
I find it really funny I'm saying the exact same thing I used to say ages ago (directly post the 2.5x damage modifier if any of you remember that). It is the truth though. Was then for that system and is now for this system. Hopefully the devs get it through their heads and don't nerf us or do something stupid which didn't need to be done... again. Anyway...
Tangent aside, STOP FREAKIN WHINING and please just try to figure it out! Each and every one of you fellow commandos and aspiring commandos can do it if you just persistently try. I know that's the truth because I've figured stuff out on my own and if I can do it, anybody can. So do it!
Tyyylowyspetily
Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:23 am
#18
Raanan wrote:
We had that. It was called flame single and flame cone. This way is better. Quit your b-tching and learn to use our weapons to their full potential. Unless of course you want to be a sh-tty commando. For that matter, if you can't take the time to at least TRY to figure out how to use our inherent aoe succesfully (which isn't hard at all), then why bother playing a game like this at all? Go pick up the latest single player rpg and the strategy guide and have everyone tell you how to do it.
Yes, I'm flaming (commando pun! yeah! lol) but there is NO PROBLEM with our inherent aoe except the fact it doesn't do damage like it's supposed to. We don't need to go back to how we were, we just need what we have to be fixed...
I find it really funny I'm saying the exact same thing I used to say ages ago (directly post the 2.5x damage modifier if any of you remember that). It is the truth though. Was then for that system and is now for this system. Hopefully the devs get it through their heads and don't nerf us or do something stupid which didn't need to be done... again. Anyway...
Tangent aside, STOP FREAKIN WHINING and please just try to figure it out! Each and every one of you fellow commandos and aspiring commandos can do it if you just persistently try. I know that's the truth because I've figured stuff out on my own and if I can do it, anybody can. So do it!
You have a point, to an extent. Yes, people need to put effort into learning the profession. No argument there. Yes, the ALL CAPS in the o.p. are annoying. But there does need to be something that allows for progression to the more useful weapons for a commando with a little more ease. I'm not concerned for the people like you or me that by now have an almost instinctual sense of burst radii or cone size for their weapons. I've been at it since EP-3, testing, and learning, and the experience of using flame cone previous to the CU gave me a good idea of what to expect. My concern lies with the neophyte commando, and the expected learning curve. Hunting groups may not be very understanding after your second or third "oops" where you get the whole group incapped. Weapon descriptions are innacurate, and this lack of a single target weapon, both for the novice, and the master (barring the lootable proton rifle) is a definate hinderance. You can say "learn your weapons", but in the end there are situations both when leveling, and in high end group efforts, where a.o.e. is just suicide. For the player that does not wish to be a rifleman powered up by commando, but rather a commando with other skills, relying on thier commando weapons first, and viewing those other skills as backup, the lack of such a tool is crippling.
It's well and good to say "quit whinning, life is tough, suck it up and move on" but I think we need to be mindful of the 90-some odd percent of the player base that does not come here to read up, and just wants to try out commando. Imagine this is a player new to SWG, and combat in general, and their first experience with commando, is an increasinglyhostile hunting group that is constantly telling this novice commando "no more area attacks" and all this player can do is feel badly because they are worthless or even a hinderanceto the group, shrug, and say "I have no other attacks", then wait to be kicked from the group. The current state of affairs is bad for the long term health of the profession IMHO.
PyscoJuggalo
Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:03 am
#19
Grinding will always be harder for us because of our AOE. If you are going to master multiple ranged professions, I would master them first so you could get the Corellian Destroyer as someone mentioned. I mastered Commando by using my smarts and avoiding groups with a combined IQ less then 50......
Raanan
Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:23 pm
#20
Tyyylowyspetily wrote:
Raanan wrote:
We had that. It was called flame single and flame cone. This way is better. Quit your b-tching and learn to use our weapons to their full potential. Unless of course you want to be a sh-tty commando. For that matter, if you can't take the time to at least TRY to figure out how to use our inherent aoe succesfully (which isn't hard at all), then why bother playing a game like this at all? Go pick up the latest single player rpg and the strategy guide and have everyone tell you how to do it.
Yes, I'm flaming (commando pun! yeah! lol) but there is NO PROBLEM with our inherent aoe except the fact it doesn't do damage like it's supposed to. We don't need to go back to how we were, we just need what we have to be fixed...
I find it really funny I'm saying the exact same thing I used to say ages ago (directly post the 2.5x damage modifier if any of you remember that). It is the truth though. Was then for that system and is now for this system. Hopefully the devs get it through their heads and don't nerf us or do something stupid which didn't need to be done... again. Anyway...
Tangent aside, STOP FREAKIN WHINING and please just try to figure it out! Each and every one of you fellow commandos and aspiring commandos can do it if you just persistently try. I know that's the truth because I've figured stuff out on my own and if I can do it, anybody can. So do it!
You have a point, to an extent. Yes, people need to put effort into learning the profession. No argument there. Yes, the ALL CAPS in the o.p. are annoying. But there does need to be something that allows for progression to the more useful weapons for a commando with a little more ease. I'm not concerned for the people like you or me that by now have an almost instinctual sense of burst radii or cone size for their weapons. I've been at it since EP-3, testing, and learning, and the experience of using flame cone previous to the CU gave me a good idea of what to expect. My concern lies with the neophyte commando, and the expected learning curve. Hunting groups may not be very understanding after your second or third "oops" where you get the whole group incapped. Weapon descriptions are innacurate, and this lack of a single target weapon, both for the novice, and the master (barring the lootable proton rifle) is a definate hinderance. You can say "learn your weapons", but in the end there are situations both when leveling, and in high end group efforts, where a.o.e. is just suicide. For the player that does not wish to be a rifleman powered up by commando, but rather a commando with other skills, relying on thier commando weapons first, and viewing those other skills as backup, the lack of such a tool is crippling.
It's well and good to say "quit whinning, life is tough, suck it up and move on" but I think we need to be mindful of the 90-some odd percent of the player base that does not come here to read up, and just wants to try out commando. Imagine this is a player new to SWG, and combat in general, and their first experience with commando, is an increasinglyhostile hunting group that is constantly telling this novice commando "no more area attacks" and all this player can do is feel badly because they are worthless or even a hinderanceto the group, shrug, and say "I have no other attacks", then wait to be kicked from the group. The current state of affairs is bad for the long term health of the profession IMHO.
Yes, there are some situations where aoe is a death sentence. High end combat which is indoors (corellian corevette, DWB which is a death sentence anyway, Geo Caves, etc). I will concede those situations necessitate a single target weapon. However, that isn't the point of this thread. This thread is about grinding to master and unless you're grinding stuff indoors, there is no problem. Even if you are grinding stuff indoors, it's your own bloody fault for getting incapped. Part of the game is learning your profession, learning what you're strong against and what you're weak against. I haven't done much with high end combat post CU (unless you count unsors on Kashyyyk which I've spent alot of time killing) so I'll use an example from pre CU. Nightsister Elders had high resistance to pretty much everything except for blast damageand had AR3so the people you'ld see taking them were swordsmen, not TKM, not Pistoleers, Swordsmen. Strengths and weaknesses.
Yeah, weapon descriptions have inaccuracies but not so big of inaccuracies to make the descriptions void. That's where using your head comes in. Assume the description is correct, attempt to use the weapon as you should, adjust your tactics based on the reality of how the weapon works. Easy as eating pie and drinking beer. Most people do it subconsciously when they stop whining about everything.
I know what you're talking about with Commando/ non nuker proffesion. My main toon is a MSmuggler/MCommando. All I had was a root. Woo. Doesn't do much good when you miss. However, it's for that reason, I know you're talking out your ass. It isn't crippling in the slightest. It's not as easy as having powerful specials to use but that's where thinking before you do something comes into play and that's all I'm asking my fellow players to do, Think before you act.
Grouping is grouping. There will always be morons. I believe it has been stated though, it's smart to avoid groups with a collective IQ of less then 50.
The current state of affairs is just fine for the health of theprofession. It's the current state of players which is viral to the game as a whole.
Zotux
Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:49 pm
#21
Raanan wrote:
/sigh
/begin mutter to self
Why must people not pay attention to their weapons?
/end mutter to self
You do not need to even switch your weapon to a non aoe weapon to pull. Look at your weapon description. See that line called "range?" It has a small number and a big numer known as minimum range and maximum range. (caps lock for emphasis) KNOW YOUR F-CKING RANGE! (end caps lock for emphasis).
What surprises me is, no one seems to understand, the radius of a weapon doesn't not extend past the maximum range of the weapon. Once a mob is beyond the maximum range you will not hit it no matter if you shoot at something right in front of it.
1.Place yourself so the mob is at your maximum range (just until the "out of range" text goes away if you're too lazy to read the meter you have between you and your target).
2. Make surethere is no mob in front of your target or within the radius on either side.
3. Fire and run back a few meters so another mob doesn't wander into your weapons range.
It's as simple as that. Amazing what you can learn from just bloody reading your weapon's description.
Knowledge is your friend!
Man, you need to lighten up a bit. Not everyone is as serious about a game as you are. Yes there are a few things that need carfull consideration, and knowing your weapond well does make for better success with this prof. But there has to be a more diplomatic way of bringing this point accross than deriding the ones who are struggling with it.
I do agree with you message, just not with the delivery of that message.
Raanan
Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:22 pm
#22
On the contrary, friend. I don't take this game or any game seriously at all. They're just games after all, meant to be fun. There is where it begins to ruffle my feathers though. How many completely ridiculous and unfun changes have been made to this game simply because people would rather whine about any difficulties they have instead of figuring out a way to surmount them? It's a very poor attitude which is detrimental not only to my own pursuit of having fun but yours and every other players. If it was just me who thought this way and it wasn't happening across all games these days, I'ld just switch games and forget about it. However, this attitude has infected the entirety of gaming so where would I go to have fun playing video games? No, I'll not go. I'll stay and I'll fight against whiney b-tches until I have nothing left to fight with or for. If that means hurting some whiners feelings, then so be it. Perhaps with someone verbally smacking them instead of placating them, their eyes will be opened and they'll see the fun they could be having if they'ld just quit seeking the easy way out. A martial artist is only cocky until they get their ass kicked.
Then again, perhaps you're right and my frustration with all the whining across the entire SWG forums finally got the better of me. I don't think so. Normally, I'm not one to flame at all. I try to bring reconciliation between differing points of view. What I think has happened is, my frustration with the "I want my cake fed to me off a silver platter" attitude has finally spurred me to be active and vocal against that kind of ridiculous tripe. I don't want to stand for it anymore. I don't want to just bury my head in the sand anymore. What I do want is for people to quit being so lazy and try. Simply try and persevere because they can if they choose to.
My point is, a game is just a game. It's the quick fix, "gimmie! gimmie! gimmie!" attitude which I'm serious about.
Zotux
Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:32 pm
#23
Oh I know what you mean. The whining and constant flaming is annoying as h*ll. It is really bad with jedi and bh, which has kept me from grinding either. If everyone could learn to work with each other, there is room for just about any prof in a group. Commando just needs to be carefull when useing AOE weapons. I can use my flamethrower in groups esily without p*ssing everyone off.
Too bad we are on diff galaxies, id like to hunt with you Raanan
Higherho
Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:42 am
#24
Just get heavy acid weapons 1 and use the acid rifle.. No AOE ( well its broke) and causes the target to become blind. SOMETIMES. In anycase thats what i did and guess what? i allraeady have acid weapons 4 and i am using the acid beam one and geting the rest of the trees. I got rid of the launcher pistol right after i got acid weapons 1.
If people pull single chars ur fine. If not make sure uh ave a master defender jedi in the group i did sometimes and heck it went fast. plus now with double exp! i am going to be master commando sooner than i thought 
Raanan
Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:49 am
#25
Higherho wrote:
Just get heavy acid weapons 1 and use the acid rifle.. No AOE ( well its broke) and causes the target to become blind. SOMETIMES. In anycase thats what i did and guess what? i allraeady have acid weapons 4 and i am using the acid beam one and geting the rest of the trees. I got rid of the launcher pistol right after i got acid weapons 1.
If people pull single chars ur fine. If not make sure uh ave a master defender jedi in the group i did sometimes and heck it went fast. plus now with double exp! i am going to be master commando sooner than i thought
NO! No freakin jedi! We do NOT need them to level our profession. Yes, they make things easier but then so does using your brain like you did to figure out the acid rifle was something which suited your needs. Kudos for thinking
That gives me hope.
Message Edited by Raanan on 06-25-2005 11:51 AM
Raanan
Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:54 am
#26
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
Grinding will always be harder for us because of our AOE. If you are going to master multiple ranged professions, I would master them first so you could get the Corellian Destroyer as someone mentioned. I mastered Commando by using my smarts and avoiding groups with a combined IQ less then 50......
Grinding is not harder it just takes more consideration then running in and blasting whatever moves and that is where your smarts show show, just like you say, because you avoided groups who would treat SWG as they would Doom. You also give me hope.