Commando Archive
Thread: Q: to the Commando Correspondant or a likewise Knowledgeable Veteran Commando.
deedabug
Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:20 am
#14
Uh Darth - these peeps responding to you are some of the "Most Veteran" in our forum, as you will probably get the same answer from our correspondent. They are some of the most knowledgable veteran commandos in the forums. Hate to burst your bubble.
DarthMaximillian
Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:47 am
#16
I see your post but frankly unless you have links to threads that involve 'stright from the Devs" mouth, not to be harsh, but i dont really care. Devs stealth change things all the time to 'test' things. Im looking for hard as concrete proof not speculation or 'tribal knowledge'. And i dont even have acommando toonso its not like i even know about 'still dont count'. For me there is no still, just now.
Thanks again.
e Tavian Brae'Monte
You can't stop him...
You can only hope to contain him.
--------------- I O I ---------------
"If our answers frighten you,
then perhaps you should cease asking scary questions"
Skeptic666
Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:50 am
#17
Yur silly you should believe in us over the devs we have lived the commando for over a year. They said they were sapose to fix it but they did not. Maybe if you do all the dot with One Flame yes but since our flame stack is really a unfixed bug maybe our initial dot only counts not sure. But if you stack up the flames and bring them down you will not get loot rights if there are other people shooting and do more then your initial hits.
Ive had it done many times to me. But if you don't want to believe us its ok man. Try it for your self 
DarthMaximillian
Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:58 am
#18
Skeptic666 wrote:
Yur silly you should believe in us over the devs we have lived the commando for over a year. They said they were sapose to fix it but they did not. Maybe if you do all the dot with One Flame yes but since our flame stack is really a unfixed bug maybe our initial dot only counts not sure. But if you stack up the flames and bring them down you will not get loot rights if there are other people shooting and do more then your initial hits.
Ive had it done many times to me. But if you don't want to believe us its ok man. Try it for your self
The phrase not sure is why id like to get a response from someone who can see the code. Its either there or it isnt. Its very simple to see that and commensurately more difficult to test it.
The reason i ask is that over the past month there have veen instances on my server of a certain master commando with a very respectable flamethrower (over 1400 damage and 2.5 speed) outdamageing Jedi on giant and above krayts. any krayt hunter worth his salt knows that high endkrayts are nigh invulnerable to flame and highly suceptable to lightsaber damage.
If the commando dot does not count towards loot rights i see this (the commando earning permission) as impossible.
Im simply trying to understand what is occuring here that im not seeing. The only pertinent information is what i just described. The type of specials the jedi was using, his saber damage, none of that information should matter. What does matter is that no jedi 'could' be outdamaged with respects to loot permission by a master commando if DoT damage didnt count. Think about that for one second and youll understand why i need cold hard facts.
There are screenshots and combat logs. Im not trying to bing up an argument here, its already well proven as fact on my server.
Im seeking a diffinative answer, plain and simple.
e Tavian Brae'Monte
You can't stop him...
You can only hope to contain him.
--------------- I O I ---------------
"If our answers frighten you,
then perhaps you should cease asking scary questions"
Message Edited by DarthMaximillian on 11-03-2004 04:01 PM
Jhyson-Bria
Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:53 am
#19
Never gonna get a diffinative answer from anyone officially at SOE.
DarthMaximillian wrote:
Skeptic666 wrote:
Yur silly you should believe in us over the devs we have lived the commando for over a year. They said they were sapose to fix it but they did not. Maybe if you do all the dot with One Flame yes but since our flame stack is really a unfixed bug maybe our initial dot only counts not sure. But if you stack up the flames and bring them down you will not get loot rights if there are other people shooting and do more then your initial hits.
Ive had it done many times to me. But if you don't want to believe us its ok man. Try it for your self
The phrase not sure is why id like to get a response from someone who can see the code. Its either there or it isnt. Its very simple to see that and commensurately more difficult to test it.
The reason i ask is that over the past month there have veen instances on my server of a certain master commando with a very respectable flamethrower (over 1400 damage and 2.5 speed) outdamageing Jedi on giant and above krayts. any krayt hunter worth his salt knows that high endkrayts are nigh invulnerable to flame and highly suceptable to lightsaber damage.
If the commando dot does not count towards loot rights i see this (the commando earning permission) as impossible.
Im simply trying to understand what is occuring here that im not seeing. The only pertinent information is what i just described. The type of specials the jedi was using, his saber damage, none of that information should matter. What does matter is that no jedi 'could' be outdamaged with respects to loot permission by a master commando if DoT damage didnt count. Think about that for one second and youll understand why i need cold hard facts.
There are screenshots and combat logs. Im not trying to bing up an argument here, its already well proven as fact on my server.
Im seeking a diffinative answer, plain and simple.
e Tavian Brae'Monte
You can't stop him...
You can only hope to contain him.
--------------- I O I ---------------
"If our answers frighten you,
then perhaps you should cease asking scary questions"
Message Edited by DarthMaximillian on 11-03-2004 04:01 PM
Nicko_
Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:33 pm
#20
'lo people
Lately, I've been over damaged by almost every profession one on one.
I've runn some test with a couple of friends.
I recognise I don't own a krayt flamer, but any mob with more than 30k HAM I couldn't loot.
We tested a couple of mobs, each proffesion against another. Took us a couple of hours on dath and dantooine.
conditions of the tests :
both players starting at 60m, solo and buffed.
Only Masters with their titles.
no skill buff.
The average : I overdamaged a fencer , was on par with a pikeman, a carbineer and a BH.
(the carbineer was also M masrksmann and a tad BH)
The pistoleer was using a DE-10.
This is no true code review.
I'm only commando since april, that also a fact,... but still seem a proof of something
Lately, I've been over damaged by almost every profession one on one.
I've runn some test with a couple of friends.
I recognise I don't own a krayt flamer, but any mob with more than 30k HAM I couldn't loot.
We tested a couple of mobs, each proffesion against another. Took us a couple of hours on dath and dantooine.
conditions of the tests :
both players starting at 60m, solo and buffed.
Only Masters with their titles.
no skill buff.
The average : I overdamaged a fencer , was on par with a pikeman, a carbineer and a BH.
(the carbineer was also M masrksmann and a tad BH)
The pistoleer was using a DE-10.
This is no true code review.
I'm only commando since april, that also a fact,... but still seem a proof of something
DarthMaximillian
Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:27 pm
#21
One last plea. And to all the veteran commandos who responded with their findings, knowledge, etc., thank you.
I appreciate the help but im sure this systemhas changed, either recently or stealth-wise for a period of time.
The reasons im posting this are events i have described elsewhere that i dont really want to clog up the commando forums with as well, but none-the-less i have found that recently(notice my wording please before you 'flame' me) DoTs specifically from flame thrower specials are counting towards loot permissions. Either it was temporary or as has happened periodically in the game at varying times, has been stealth fixed. Many of the systems especially combat and loot are changed all the time and no one, even correspondants are told either way. Im sure all of you remember instances where this has happened. It is also possible that this is somehow a ground game regression due to JtlS. Many things could explain this and seeing as how everyone tends to agree with one another based on tribal knowledge without a deffinite way to test this system, many as i have assumed cetain things. Im not going to assume anymore.
So if our higher ups wont give us a straight answer go out there and test it for yourself. Heres the scenario i have personally witnessed, for whatever that is worth:
A master commando, Tk 4/40/4, medic 0/0/4/0, on my server outdamaged a Dark jedi master with a 4th gen polearm saber. Im not entirely sure of the exact damage of said saber but know that several well tuned pearls were used in the saber.
The target was an Ancient canyon krayt dragon. if im not mistaken anceints have about 95% heat resistance. Im not sure of Lightsaber resistance however im sure someone who reads this will know and be able post in response. The master commandos flame thrower was 1400+(not sure of the exact amount but it was under 1450 but not by much) 2.5 speed.
I just find it physically impossible for a commando to outdamge and gain loot rights over a Jedi, if you count jedi DPS and the lack thereof of commandos.The only way to prove this possible is to take into account Damage from flame DoTs.
Anyhow im still seeking a difinitive answer...still seeking...still seeking...
e Tavian Brae'Monte
You can't stop him...
You can only hope to contain him.
--------------- I O I ---------------
"If our answers frighten you,
then perhaps you should cease asking scary questions"
Gaius_Kavadas
Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:09 pm
#22
The reason he was out damaging jedi is because of the flame DOTs stickings to the krayts. It's like a rancor, for example. When it get hits with the standard flamethrower, nothing happens. But when you hit it with flamesingle or flame cone, the DOT sticks and a 1400 damage FT would have a hefty DOT. Now stack four DOTs on top of that and that is why this commando can out damage a jedi against krayts.
I do it all the time against Giant Dune Kimoglias when I'm scale hunting. Nearly all of the damage I do to the GDK is burn wound damage from my DOTs. In the meantime, while the DOTs are doing their business, I whip out the VKs and punch it. I can solo GDK faster as a commando than most groups of 3-5 people who don't have a commando among them. On average, a GDK takes me just barely over five minutes.
DarthMaximillian
Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:13 am
#23
Gaius_Kavadas wrote:
The reason he was out damaging jedi is because of the flame DOTs stickings to the krayts. It's like a rancor, for example. When it get hits with the standard flamethrower, nothing happens. But when you hit it with flamesingle or flame cone, the DOT sticks and a 1400 damage FT would have a hefty DOT. Now stack four DOTs on top of that and that is why this commando can out damage a jedi against krayts.
I do it all the time against Giant Dune Kimoglias when I'm scale hunting. Nearly all of the damage I do to the GDK is burn wound damage from my DOTs. In the meantime, while the DOTs are doing their business, I whip out the VKs and punch it. I can solo GDK faster as a commando than most groups of 3-5 people who don't have a commando among them. On average, a GDK takes me just barely over five minutes.
No arguement there. Though if you would read a bit closer the 'outdamaging' im refering to isnt necessarily refering to how fast you kill it, but whether the damage from those dots determine whether you get loot permission or not.
Im quite aware commandos do alot of raw damage. Probably the only profession that can kill a ancient canyon krayt Solo because ofthe flamethrowerDoT, but does that damageequate to loot permission? Ive seen evidence thatindicates they do, which totaly disagrees with current belief about the system hence my question.
e Tavian Brae'Monte
You can't stop him...
You can only hope to contain him.
--------------- I O I ---------------
"If our answers frighten you,
then perhaps you should cease asking scary questions"
Wabit
Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:28 am
#24
ok here is the closest offical word that i've found... do a knowledge base search from the main page...
SWG for game and looting rights... answer ID is 7906...
Corpse looting permissions are granted based on the amount of total damage dealt to an NPC by an individual or a group. If multiple players are grouped, their combined damage output will contribute as a single total to looting rights. Damage done by poisons, diseases, bleeding and fire all contribute to the damage value. Additionally, damage dealt to all HAMs is added to the total. It is possible for one party to exclusively deal fatal mind damage to a creature yet still lose loot permissions to a second party who damaged all 3 HAMs to a higher value than was done to the mind pool.
updated 11/2/04
in my experiances its buggy for looting rights... soloing enough giants/canyons i know roughly how much blackbar will be on the health bar with just stacking burns and intimidates... add in someone trying to outdamage me with their highest damage special (strafe2 for example)... i can estimate if i'll get the rights based on how much blackbar there is upon the dragon dieing...
if it gets into a p1ssing contest i'll use a stack of rockets in conjunction with the burns... it is the extra little bit that helps me get over the top... but the FT's i'm useing aren't kryted, one is a 35% dam, the other 35% speed of off the shelf...
if its anyone other than a swordsman, i'm evil and wil wait till the intim i spammed wears off then /feigndeath... let the dragon chew on whatever else is trying to beat me...
Wabit
Zhorx
Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:46 am
#25
Wabit wrote:
ok here is the closest offical word that i've found... do a knowledge base search from the main page...
SWG for game and looting rights... answer ID is 7906...
Corpse looting permissions are granted based on the amount of total damage dealt to an NPC by an individual or a group. If multiple players are grouped, their combined damage output will contribute as a single total to looting rights. Damage done by poisons, diseases, bleeding and fire all contribute to the damage value. Additionally, damage dealt to all HAMs is added to the total. It is possible for one party to exclusively deal fatal mind damage to a creature yet still lose loot permissions to a second party who damaged all 3 HAMs to a higher value than was done to the mind pool.
From my experience i would say the damage part of the DOT counts, but the wound part doesn't. Only way to explian what i have seen. And it accounts for teh different opinions posted in this thread.
SkinRudenko
Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:33 pm
#26
Zhorx wrote:
Wabit wrote:
ok here is the closest offical word that i've found... do a knowledge base search from the main page...
SWG for game and looting rights... answer ID is 7906...
Corpse looting permissions are granted based on the amount of total damage dealt to an NPC by an individual or a group. If multiple players are grouped, their combined damage output will contribute as a single total to looting rights. Damage done by poisons, diseases, bleeding and fire all contribute to the damage value. Additionally, damage dealt to all HAMs is added to the total. It is possible for one party to exclusively deal fatal mind damage to a creature yet still lose loot permissions to a second party who damaged all 3 HAMs to a higher value than was done to the mind pool.
From my experience i would say the damage part of the DOT counts, but the wound part doesn't. Only way to explian what i have seen. And it accounts for teh different opinions posted in this thread.
That actually makes verymuch sense... I wouldn't doubt this is the case.