Commando Archive
Thread: 2.5x multiplier = GOING OUT THE WINDOW!!!!!
Consider this to be a cross-proffession 'toughness' modifier.
You can be commando , rifleman and tkasi and you will get both melee and ranged 'toughness'.
If you are a melee class, you *really* need more melee 'toughness'.. i think they are doing this so melee players can TANK for a change.
OTH, ranged players get ranged 'toughness' ..probably because in pvp, its been shown that guns are the weapon of choice and too many people cry that they get 1 or 2 or 3 shotted .. decreasing their fun.
Melee classes cant get 'ranged toughness' because then any melee class would be unstoppable.. just like if they give lots of melee toughness to ranged players. There wont be any difference between melee and ranged except for the amount of running.
But you can get these mods if you skill up in trees from both proffessions..meaning melee wont have points to become as 'tough' vs ranged as a ranged will be ..and ranged wont get as tough in melee as a melee character.
A nice thing IF it goes live.
Who cares if we get ranged mitigation or melee mitigation? Either way its better than 2.5X damage! Thank god. Its about time.
Your only looking at the "now" with only Commando Glasses on, and not the ramifications of what it going to lead to...It's like credit cards...sure they can buy you what you want, but if you don't watch your back, the debt will eat you up down the road...
So they get rid of the 2.5x damage...the current proprosed change will take us back to a similar set up as to before the 2.5x damage issue was forced upon us...Melee fighters upset over what they believe is an unfair advantage over them by ranged professions...They'll complain, the dev's will act and we will have something like the 2.5x damage penalty forced back upon us...We need to have a solution that will make Melee fighters feel they have a fair chance against Ranged fighters...and this can be accomplished defensively if Melee fighters get Ranged Mitigation benefits...
If you want the 2.5x damage issue to stay dead, it's in your best interest to see the Melee fighters happy...We need the Dev's to have a reason NOT to re-add it...Ask yourself, "Why did the Dev's ever add the 2.5x damage penalty?" and then take a look at the proposed changes...will this resolve the original issue?
I can promise you...if these changes go through as is...probably around 3 months from now (if not sooner) we will all be suffering from some new Melee penalty and we will wish we addressed the issue before it became a problem.
The only way I see the melee comunity being happy is if they make an elite melee profession that makes them very evasive to shots fired, and extra toughness for starters.
EXACTLY!!! that's my point...thanks for restating it..lol...
Giving Melee Fighters Ranged Mitigation would accomplish this to some degree (the extra toughness)...and all the Ranged Defenses (maybe should be more) that are sitting on TC for Melee professions helps with the evasive issue...I'm not even asking for Ranged Professions to have Melee Mitigation...honestly, without the 2.5x melee damage bonus, I don't think we need it (at least to the degree the proposal sets)...we can still stay out of range for the most part (except for our broken specials)...
I'm not complaining...I'm just thinking we should push for Melee Fighters to get Ranged Mitigation for the exact reason you stated above....Making Melee professions have Melee Mitigation is just like them saying we are trading in your 10% eff bone armor for a set of 60% composite armor....but you can only use that composite when fighting other Melee fighters...if you go fight a ranged fighter you have to put back on your bone armor...Both Melee fighters are still on the same ground, just equally tougher...doesn't solve the ranged vs. melee issue...
And I agree about "bringing a knife to a gun fight" in the real world...but in game that arguement just creates more arguements...I'll put it to you this way, what do the dev's do the more people complain? Imagine the all the Melee professions up at arms again screaming that the ranged professions have an "unfair advantage"...the Dev's will completely ignore the "bringing a knife to a gun fight" logic and Nerf Ranged Professions...
I just dont think the meleers should expect to do well against comandos or BH's, which are elite hybrid professions without them having one themselves. I feel the same way about pistoleers, carbineers and rifleman at least with just that for combat. They can always make up for it through being a medic much higher than what we could acomplish, or a CH since they could still be a master at CH and just an elite, non-hybrid. But you are right, the brawlers that have an equal skill requirement to a marksman class profession should have an equal oppurtunity, just not sure how they could pull it off without someone else yelling. It seems eitehr way we are going to be in a circle of everyone thinking they should be tougher than the next profession.
I may sound like I think comandos should be tougher than everyone but actually I think if the comando just has comando, a BH should win everytime. But we have the option of more skill points to use after comando than a BH so that should be what puts us on even ground, not a nerf. And I restate your point again that yes a TK should be on even ground with a pistoleer but our ideas would not help since we are obviously ignored, nor would it make the brawlers happy cause if you ask most TKA's they'll tell you they feel they should be on even ground with comandos and BH's as well as a pistoleer, with just TK.
For one thing, I think this is going to be VERY good for guys like me and Garvin, we should have good mitigation in all things. Heh heh.
I think that one major reason the devs want this is to make certain weapons better than they are now. Example: T21 vs. Laser Rifle. A laser rifle's damage range is very, very wide, T21 is tighter. When someone with ranged mitigation 3 is hit by a laser rifle they won't have any worry of being hit by the massive 600 max damage plus the damage mods. They will only get hit by the lowest end of the weapon which is something like 100-200 damage or something like that, can't remember for sure on that. A T21 has a tighter damage range, meaning that even a high damage mitigation will still get hit by near max damage simply because the weapon has close min and max dmages. Just a thought, this may be one of their main perspectives on the subject.
Trust me...I agree with you 100%....but we are looking at it from a Commando view point looking down...unfortunately you have to know that most Melee profession players don't see it the same way...No matter how logical it is that a Hybrid profession should be stronger, that won't stop them from whining...and the Dev's are famous for caving (hence the 2.5x melee issue)...
Maybe we should look at it as, let's say Elite Melee professions are tougher (can take more damage via Ranged Mitigation...all Ranged Def does is make us miss more), but we are more powerful (thanks to being a hybrid profession and therefore the reason for the big guns)...We should get some Ranged Mitigation (similiar to what I'msuggestion forthe Melee Professions)for having Master Unarmed (they should add some form of the ranged mitigationthere, which inturn would make getting unarmed for commando make more sense) and therefore we have that slight advantage over say a BH who has no melee requirements in that category...BH's will still have an advantage over Commandos in that they have a powerful weapon that works with ranged specials, but we then get some Ranged Mitigation where they have none. Does that make any sense.
In the end, truthfully, both sides will (if the player has any dabbling sense) get bits and pieces from both melee and ranged professions to balance out...But not everyone will look at the big picture...most will focus on the weakness of their choosen profession and whine about how everyone else "owns" them all the time...
I think the concept the dev's came up with is a good one...just reversed...Anyone who goes Melee should get some Ranged Mitigation and Vice Versa...I'm not stating that I think the dev's idea shouldn't go through, I'm just offering up ideas for possible suggested alterations...that way we don't get caught with our Commando Pants down when the folks start to complain....
At any rate I am happy for now and hope to never go through that again.I know you are right that whiners seem to get their way, I just hope the devs handle it better next time.
At any rate I am happy for now and hope to never go through that again.I know you are right that whiners seem to get their way, I just hope the devs handle it better next time.
I agree with you. Although I am sure the cry to nerf commando will be heard in the land again I for one am happy now
. If trouble comes tomorrow due to this change we will facethat trouble if and when it comes. We are commandos and we will see to it our class is fixed and defined not to mention even more fun to play!
Well, if this ever goes thru, and these changes ARE comming...and the devs show some mercy and fix the HAR......its time for me to move out of the darkness called "Investigation" (BH 0-3-2-4 going for master)..and get my old Master Commando dogtags back on.
gimme a week or 2 before these changes come, a gurreck..err..lvl 10 pet..there are any lvl 10 pets?...well..give me 2 weeks before these changes come..and I'm back to haunt the Commando profession again