Commando Archive
Thread: OK, with fire extinguishers and DoT resists, we need a new top 5.
Oh yah....we need a new top 5. Here's mine for the week....
1. Heavy Support Weapons
Problems:
- Accuracylacking at Master. No accuracy rating for a heavy support weapon tops 100.
- Heavy Acid Beam Cannon is redundant with the existance of the Heavy Acid Rifle.
Suggestions:
- Consolidate all heavy support weapon accuracy mods into a single mod called "Heavy Support Weapon Accuracy". Consolidate all heavy support weapon speed mods into a single mod called "Heavy Support Weapon Speed".
- Accuracy at master should be 120, speed at 60.
- Scrap the Heavy Acid Beam Cannon and give us a Heavy Ion Cannon that does heavy AP stun damage similar to a Heavy Particle Beam Cannon.
2. Heavy Acid Rifle
Problems:
- Accuracy & speed mods don't stack.
- Functionality & attributes (speed,ideal range, special attacks, etc)does not resemble a "rifle" per say, but more of a diet flamethrower.
Suggestion:
Heavy Acid Rifle
Certified: Yes
Condition: xx/xx
Armor Piercing: Medium
Speed: 6.4s
Damage: 420-820
Damage Type: Acid
Point Blank (0m): -45
Ideal Range (46m): +30
Max Range (64m): +15
Health: 51
Action: 53
Mind: 57
....and the mod problem is too obvious to bother suggesting a fix.
#3. Grenades
Problems:
- 32m range is illogical considering the unarmed requirements of the profession.
- Blast radius synonymous with ideal range on the Proton Grenade.
- Ideal ranges on most grenades illogical to begin with.
- Accuracy for "Thrown Weapons" at master is lacking.
- Glop grenade is redundant, considering the existance of the Heavy Acid Rifle.
Suggestions:
- Grenades should work from 64m and the ideal range should logically be as far away from the target as possible (64m).
- Accuracy at master should be at least 20 points higher. I know I'm not supposed to bring real life into this but you don't need a direct hit to kill someone with a grenade...
- Flash grenades? Zero damage, causes blind + stun + dizzy? Where are these things, huh huh huh???
4. Field Tactics line
Problems:
- No Terrain Negotiation bonus.
- Grenade mods & certs in the line.
- No abilities in the line present us with "tactics".
Suggestions:
- Terrain Negotiation can justifiably be added into this line, for using the terrain itself to your advantagecan be considered a tactic of combat and this is a line titled "Field Tactics". +50 by the time one hits master (+20 at box II, +30 at Master).
- The grenade mods & certs should be moved to the Heavy Support Weapons line and the line should be renamed to "Demolition Specialization".
- I really liked the recent suggestion of giving Commandos a "grapple" move. Such a move would disable both the Commando and their victim from moving or attacking while said grapple is in effect. Each grapple should last for 5 seconds and there should be no lock timer on it. Grappling should not be possible if a weapon is equipped.
#5. Flamethrower special attacks
Let me be very clear about this: NO MELEE ATTACK OR WEAPON SHOULD HAVE THE SAME RANGE AS A GUN, REGARDLESS OF WHAT KIND OF GUN IT IS.
That said, ALL of our flamethrower specials (and all of the Bounty Hunter's LLC specials for that matter) should be hardcoded for 32m range rather than 16m.
Can someone explain to me why Commando's need Terrain Negotiation? I keep seeing it come up but I don't know why we need it? Mounts and Vehicles make it obsolete (especially with upcoming changes in Feb's patch) andsince we don't have any Scout pre-req to me that would also mean we don't deserve it...
One thing we have stated is that due to our unarmed pre-req we should have some abilities in our Commando Profession related...how does it look if we keep asking for Terrain Negotiation with no Scout Pre-Req...to me that does the Scout profession a disservice...
Besides...I haven't had any Scouting skills for over 2 months and haven't missed it once...Let's leave that one out and focus on our more important issues...
When looking at our profession look at how things currently stand...
We are a ranged profession with 16m Melee ranged specials...who else has 16m specials? Melee Professions...We are also a profession with a pre-req from both Ranged and Melee...
So basically we are a Ranged Weapon Profession with Melee Specials...That's where the inbetween idea comes in...
Since we are obviously an "inbetween" profession we need to be treated as such...This is why I push for 32m specials (half way between melee and ranged)...as well as some of the other suggestions...We shouldn't dominate both ranged and melee professions, but we also shoudn't be dominated as we are now...
We need ranged specials and melee defenses...those are 2 key issues that fit this theme...how ever they are fit in (whether the HAR gets fixed, or the LP get's ranged specials, etc), this is one major premise we should be pushing...ranged specials & melee defenses...right there we would be helping 2 of our major weaknesses....
Ok guys...
First lets look at the cool things about being a Commando...
Number one, first, formost, and the ONE reason people (Forgive me for a better term) dabble in our proffession is the FT. The flamethrower is a cool weapon...cool graphics, sound, damage, and a nice DOT.
Second to me personally is actually the name. The Genre! COMMANDO...come on...we all like that. But what does it mean?
Third...heavy weapons are pretty cool. Not the best, not cost effective, and certainly not on the nerf list...but they look cool and are fun to fire.
Last, for me anyway, Commando is a proffession needed to take down a Faction Base....but WHY?
So really...what do commandos really have? ONE effective weapon that is risky to use and is complained about by the nerf punks. Close to being a joke in pvp.
To effectivly compose a legitimate "TOP 5" issues...let's see what we have. WHAT DO WE HAVE?
Answer that...I'd like TH to answer that to us. I'll bet he says "Flamethrower". He could never DARE say the HAR. Half the commandoes I meet don't even own one.We can use Grenades? Is that cool when they don't work? Maybe the devs will say Heavy Support Weapons are cool...but how? In effectivness or just how the graphic looks? Let's not even bring up the LP...that at least 3...yes 3 other proffessions can use better then we can. Tell us TH...what do commandos have in your eyes and the devs eyes that justify the skill dump?
Flamethrower? Which now you seem to so joyesly post it's end? Rediculose!
Top 5 issues?
1- The Field Tactics Tree
2- The Heavy Support Weapons Tree
3- The Heavy Acid Rifle Tree
4- *comming soon to a galaxy near you* The Flame Thrower tree
Not to mention our role in the GCW. We die to maybe DOT the enemy...and hit a terminal. Fitting for Commando...
Change our name to Kamikazi.
Oh...sorry. We can kill animals and NPCs...but we're not hunters, scouts, or rangers. We're Commandoes people...
...thanks to the devs, SOE, and TH, we have brought SHAME to the name of the many proud indeviduals who have sacraficed everything to bring pride and honor to such a title.
Heh, Braven you hit it right on the nose whenyou talk about us and NPCs. The reason we are good there is NPCs are to stupid to stay out of 16m.
Really maybe they should just call us big game hunters.
Why make a top 5 of what we want it does not matter clearly we can do nothing now so here is my top 5 of who can now take us out with ease.
1. Bounty hunter pistoleer dabblers who bring shame to BH's everywhere
2. Anyone with any level of TKA
3. A chef no doubt can reak havoc upon us with ease
4. A noob fresh of the shuttle with a cdef in his hand
5.The developers who make are profession worthless and make this game less and less fun for those of us who dedicated are time and skill points to it.
Now if any wants me i will setting something on fire that does not have an extinguisher oh wait maybe the npc's have them now too and pets. HEY PISTOLEERS STAY OFF OUR BOARDS.
I don't get why people want Commando Unarmed moves, I mean unarmed is just a skillpoint dump, just like rifle and carbine training. Bounty hunters dont have any scout-related skills, nor do Bio-Engineers. Just sayign that pre-reqs aren't that important.
But that doesn't answer the question...why do we need Terrain Negotiation?To be truthful, I'm not sure why combat medic has it...
Unarmed makes sense because we are forced to fight in melee range...with the delay on our specials wecould make use of faster unarmed specials in a pinch...apply DoT...go unarmed if needed...
Pre-Reqs should be important...as the building blocks of a profession they should have impact on the further development...from our building blocks we get pistol speed & accuracy...we get /overpoweredshot1 (and a few other minor specials, etc...we even get a few unarmed moves we can use when needed...
The Dev's have set up Commando's as being the "inbetween" profession...we are both melee and ranged...we require both Melee and Ranged pre-reqs...therefore we should attributes of both in our skill trees...
But I still don't see a reason for Terrain Negotiation...if our choices are limited to what we can have, that would be the first request to get thrown out in my book...
I never thought of a Commando as In-between Melee and ranged. I think of a commando as the slow-moving death character. I'm slow, but if I can hit you, you're dead.
I got TKA novice myself, but honestly i don't like punching things, its just a way to get SOME defensive mods. I much prefer blowing stuff up. That's what I see commmando as, the guy that blows stuff up.
garvin wrote:
5) If extinguishers are going into effect, then we need some thingsto make us balanced as a Hybrid Profession. Some suggestions:
- Make Master Commando's have Flame Thrower Damage enhancements as well as more Def Mods, Speed, and Accuracy. Give Commando's a reason to get to the Master Level...currently a Flame Dabbler is as powerful as a Master Commando. Don't Nerf the dabblers, fix the Master...
- Make our range go to 32m instead of 16m on our specials (half way between Melee and Ranged...since we are a halfway inbetween profession).
That reminded me of one of the little know features of mastering brawler. I agree with everything else alot of you guys are posing.
Let me just *tweek* one portion a bit:
What about instead of increasing the range of flamer/HAR(?) specials from 16m to 32m, how about at Novice Commando |Flame1 (ie Flamesingle 1) - specials range of 16m. <--- And have this 16m range up through flame 4.
Master Commando | Full tree's skill points later - specials range of 32m. <--- Would drastically increase the usefullness of Master over Grenedeer.
For anyone who doesn't know about the Master Bralwer connection im making...Master Brawler gets a 20m posture change move. Add that with a dizzy at closer range and that equels a dizzy/knockdown. I dunno about you, but why can a Master Brawler (even with a weapon) make some one kneel (or prone) at 20 meters? Or has everyone forgotten that 20m is approx 60 feet!?
Extending flame/HAR specials to 32m is not that unreasonable if a melee weapon profession can posture change at 20m.
just a thought.
garvin wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Commando's need Terrain Negotiation? I keep seeing it come up but I don't know why we need it? Mounts and Vehicles make it obsolete (especially with upcoming changes in Feb's patch) andsince we don't have any Scout pre-req to me that would also mean we don't deserve it...
One thing we have stated is that due to our unarmed pre-req we should have some abilities in our Commando Profession related...how does it look if we keep asking for Terrain Negotiation with no Scout Pre-Req...to me that does the Scout profession a disservice...
Besides...I haven't had any Scouting skills for over 2 months and haven't missed it once...Let's leave that one out and focus on our more important issues...
people are asking for it because MasterCombat Medic (using the same number of skill points) gets the same terrain negotiation as a Master Scout. They also have no scout prereq.
garvin wrote:
people are asking for it because MasterCombat Medic (using the same number of skill points) gets the same terrain negotiation as a Master Scout. They also have no scout prereq.
So it all comes down to "they have it so we should too"...sorry, but that kind of sounds juvinille...
The sole reason why I threw the idea out (again) has nothing to do with who already has or does not have this mod. No, I wanted to toss the idea out when I saw the words "the only ranged profession that gets kited". It isn't hard to see what +50 to TN would do for a Commando in a situation where staying out of melee range (hands down, the absolute best defense against melee attackers) is key, especially when the terrain is uneven (which it commonly is).
We don't need it...so I don't even think it should be a focus...personally I don't think Combat Medic should have it either, but that's up to the Scouting and Combat Medic Profession to work out...The only reason I can think of for Combat Medic to need that skill is because they often need to run all over a battle scene healing their allies...Do we need to run all over the place as much as them...can't see a reason...just hope back into your vehicle or on your mount and ride where you need to go...I do it all the time during a battle...
Why Combat Medics got TN despite their ability to lob heals & poisonballs farther than we can toss grenades, I have no idea. But that is a moot point. As for us having to run all over the place, I think you're forgetting to consider the tiny spread at which most of our weapons have positive to-hit modifiers and the differences in where the ideal ranges our amongst the weapons we have. Also, as I've already said, staying out of melee range is the best defense against melee attackers and doing so over uneven ground without any sort of TN is impossible.
...and when they fix the vehicle bug where you can fix disabled vehicles, I don't forsee leaving your vehicle or mount out so that you can readily mount / dismount them in the middle of PvP combat. Tell me, who's going to be nice enough to not disable your vehicle? And then tell me how much do vehicles go for on your server?
We have tons of other things we need...is we ask for to much or use the reasoning of "They have it so we should too" the dev's may ignore our other more important issues...I say drop that whole request for terrain negotiation...
Do we really? I see a fixes to our existing weapons dominating the list of things we need and at this point, you could subjectively list them and they'd only fill up four slots on the infamous top five issue list....
I say consider the request for terrain negotiation as a defensive enhancement. The use of terrain & line of sight cannot be overlooked as tactical advantages in combat. As a hybrid profession designed for nothing but, I think it would be both logical & beneficial to Commandos to have this mod.
If and when we get our major issues fixed, then we can start looking at adding the "shinny bobbles" to our profession...right now let's just focus on the meat and potatoes...Let's work on getting Ranged Specials and Melee Defenses. All of our Top 5 should have this focus...from the fixes to our weapons to even the enhancement request to our grenades...we need better ways to fight ranged opponents and defend better against Melee aggressors.
Hmmm...
First, ranged specials.I can see adding ranged specials into the profession should the HAR actually start resembling a rifle instead of a diet flamethrower, but beyond that, we already have our long range abilities (and very damaging ones at that) in the particle beam cannon and the rocket launcher. They just need minor fixes (accuracy at master needs a tiny boost, area effect attacks need to inflict damage on all targets in the blast radius regardless of whether or not they are in combat mode..).
As for melee defenses? I've alreadystated how TN would help in this department twice over. Beyond that, what else could be done to enhance our ability to deal with melee attackers?
Adding mods is out of the question:doing so is a dangerous thingbecause the total skill points consumed by the profession when mastered leave us with 81 points to dabble with. Using 79 of those 81 points, I've already pushed both my front line defensive mods (melee & ranged defense) above 170. Melee defense is actually at 216 right now. While I am a rare case, I'm still within the realm of possibilites and it is when one is inconsiderate of the limits of those possibilities that oversights are made and bugs / design flaws are born. While mod stacking is currently under the microscope at SoE, I seriously doubt any changes will affect it because despite such a level of defense, I'm nowhere near invincible or unhittable. Add to it, however, and who knows what could happen.
Giving us a knockdown ability of our own wouldn't be such a bad thing, be it ranged or melee-based. Funny that we don't have such an ability. You would think that the kinetic force from a rocket or grenadedetonating less than 10m away would have some sort of effect on your balance, but indeedthis is SWG where one can shoot right through the ground to hit a target on the other side of a hill and a 1.3m high non-force sensitive Bothan can PISTOL WHIP a machine 10 times its height and 1000 times its weight and actually KNOCK IT DOWN.
I really did like the grappling idea and would love to see it in action.
One thing I do find strange concerning melee defensive ability within the profession is the lack of melee mitigation. Considering that one of the our profession's prerequisites is brawler / unarmed skill, Ithink melee damage mitigation 1 in box 2 of Field Tactics is justifiable.