Commando Archive
Thread: More on the commando change
Holo, I'm going to keep saying it until someone gives me a good reason why I'm wrong.
1. Eliminate the Heavy Acid Rifle. All it is is a flamethrower Jr. In it's place put some speed and accuracy mods for the launccher pistol as well as some specials for it. THIS is ont of our glaring weaknesses. I remeber you devs claiming that the launcher pistol was suppose to be our main weapon and the other were suppose to be used in certain situations. That's fine by me but how can you give a class a "main weapon" and not give them ANY mods or specials for it. Bh's get a pistol tree for their scatter. Smugglers get some pistol mods and specials, why then can't a commando have some mods for his laucher pistol?
Someone please explain this to me. Please.
My thoughts on the subject ...
According to the Strategy Guide from Prima (which I assume was done with SWGs cooperation) Commandos are the demolitions and heavy weapons experts. I would also assume from the requirements to make novice Commando that were are one of the best in combat. This is all we do and we should do it well. We don't hunt down bounties for money or have any crafting skills to make items or taming skills to sell animals. I realize that thegame is constantly evolving so please tell us the role of a Commando now.
The Flamethrower (before the large patch) was one of the best weapons in the game. Many people were going 0/0/4/0 strictly for the flame DOT which 90% of people used with the revenge TEFrules. The DOT is powerful and should dothe wound damage as well as the normal damage it used to (it is supposed to be like napalm.) However there should be a system of checks and balances just as with poisons and diseases, there should be a way to remove the "burning effect" without running in water (which shouldn't douse napalm.) How about a chemical fire extinguisher ?Give the burning victims a way to remove the DOT just as a doctor can cure bleeding, poisons, and disease. Maybe even make it so it can only be used on someone else. You see a teammate on fire andrush over to put it out.
With the action delay on the Flamethrower a melee penalty seems a bit excessive. That's basically turning us into kamikaze one trick ponies. Give us a bit of variety.
Hence my next suggestion, make the Heavy Acid Rifle a medium or long range weapon with the appropriate range modifiers. Maybe make the specials correspond to the range also since it has a weaker dps than most weapons. Also spice up the visual details of the weapon firing (looking cool is 90 % of it.)
To recap my suggestions in a shorter list :
1. Remove revenge TEF (didnt state that above since its in the works I think) and give everyone a way to remove the Flame DOT (fire extinguisher.)
2. Make the Heavy Acid Rifle longer range so it doesnt overlap the basic function of the Flamethrower.
3. Remove the melee bonus since one would think that a Commando (master unarmed brawler) would be able to recognize the damage potential andprotect himself better.
Also just to point out, theCommandos Heavy Weapon'susually have a higher delay (one miss can ruin the dps rating) and can't use weapon power-ups.
Thank you for your time,
To add my thoughts in:
The problem to me seems to be that the game doesn't actually account for "heavy weapons" as it should. Before, we were 'swinging' flame throwers when we should be 'using them' or 'firing them', now we 'fire them', but we received a penalty that was meant to be applied to all (non-commando) ranged weapons users.
Personally - I shouldn't be doing extra damage to a ranged weapon user, unless I'm using melee attacks, and even then, I shouldn't get that much of a bonus. The 2.5x penalty is harsh to anyone that it applies to. A 1.5x (150% bonus to melee damage) would be about right. Even say 1.75x (175%) would be 'tolerable', but 2.5x is just way too much.
It seems, as is, that the 2.5x penalty is basically ignoring armor, but I could be wrong. Either way, if that mod were to stay, then it should be negated by bonuses obtained through the unarmed brawler tree.
Actually, it would seem in many ways fixing things by giving defensive bonuses back to the unarmed brawler tree might be the best over-all option - that makes that whole sink hole of points more valuable again. Give back enough points along the way (between novice brawler and each of the unarmed boxes, plus the novice commando box) so that Commandos would get extra defense against melee based on their class (a bonus given at Novice Commando), but also such that getting novice brawler (a 15 point sink hole) would get the damage modifier reduced back down a little, a little more at Unarmed 1, a bit more at Unarmed 2, etc., up to Unarmed 4. That would reward the Unarmed brawler with defense against melee, and other ranged classes could then opt to spend the same points that Commandos had to in order for them to gain back a balance against melee damage.
For weapons, the launcher pistol should be accurate out to 64m, but do minimal damage unless within 48m. Optimum at say 16-32m. No penalty (or a negated penalty thanks to bonuses gained from the unarmed brawler tree) if attacked with melee damage. All normal marksman specials should apply to the weapon (since it's the only one that seems to carry through specials from the whole marksman tree).
Flame Thrower should be most accurate within 16m, moderately accurate for normal attacks within 32m, with lowered damage and much lower accuracy outside of 32m for normal attacks. Specials within 16m only.
Heavy Acid Rifle should be most accurate within 32m, moderately accurate from 48m, lowered accuracy and damage from outside of 48m. Specials within 32m only (offering Commandos a slightly more ranged special attack versus the Flame Thrower).
While I'm thinking about it - I'd like to see weapon certs given to Novice Commandos for all weapons *except* the special weapons for the BH tree. Perhaps give those certs along the way in the Heavy Weapons Support tree. The reason I mention this is, as a Commando, I'm left dumbfounded as to why I shouldn't be able to use a DX2 pistol, or a T21 rifle, when I'm supposed to be a master of combat weaponry. I think of myself as a Navy seal - I should be able to use basically anything I put my hands on, and it makes no sense that I can't be certed with weapons that others are able to use, considering they get those weapons with much less pre-req than the master marksman + brawler with unarmed that commandos get.
Giving these weapon certs to Commandos along the way would also make the Heavy Weapons Support tree more valuable, and perhaps convince more people to go full on commando rather than just dabbler in the flame thrower tree.
I have read just a few of the other posts here and agree with many of them about the 2X damage we now take from melee. I believe that having unarmed 4 as a prereq. for commando should counteract commandos taking extra damage from melee opponents since it is not used in the actual commando class for anything else. And even though getting the 2.5X damage on a rifle user is fun it is not necessary for commandos to have it.
Bryant <KoA>
Commando 2/2/4/0
Holocron,
I hear the explanation of why a Commando is getting the melee damage modifier is because the flamethrower and acid rifle are rifle-sized weapons, and should therefore get the same melee damage modifier that rifle users get.
It appears I am getting the same melee damage modifier when using my launcher pistol.
Can you, or someone, confirm or deny this?
Arasten,
Your thoughts onmaking the FT DoT treatable like the Poison DoT and Bleed is right on the money. This has been at the core of my argument to MasterSynn. The untreatable nature of the FT DoT is at the heart of the constant cry for nerf of the commando class and the reason we are perceived as near ubber in status. Until we make this treatable we will never hear the end of it. I am not advocating reducing the damage or range we can do. I am simply saying we should make the DoT treatable. We have no negotiating leverage now but if we could say to the devs that the other classes can treat the damage of the FT DoT we could justify demanding the removal of the 2.5.x melee mod. IMHO.