Commando Archive

All commando weapons (aside from MKs and Proton Rifles) do AoE. But its also a question for us as well, as the built in AoE is a bit wonky at best. Expect changes to HW AoE to bring it more in line with how our weapons were intended. (Whereas a commando needs to be careful controlling his fire, rather than a weak and underused novelty that only hinders us as it seems now)

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StarNick wrote:
All commando weapons (aside from MKs and Proton Rifles) do AoE. But its also a question for us as well, as the built in AoE is a bit wonky at best. Expect changes to HW AoE to bring it more in line with how our weapons were intended. (Whereas a commando needs to be careful controlling his fire, rather than a weak and underused novelty that only hinders us as it seems now)

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...............understatement of the century.............

Heh

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StarNick wrote:
All commando weapons (aside from MKs and Proton Rifles) do AoE. But its also a question for us as well, as the built in AoE is a bit wonky at best. Expect changes to HW AoE to bring it more in line with how our weapons were intended. (Whereas a commando needs to be careful controlling his fire, rather than a weak and underused novelty that only hinders us as it seems now)

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The problem with that is that we still need some heavy firepower that is non-AoE. Proton Rifle is not the answer, it is an optional quest/loot item and should not be the only option for a Commando to have for a non-AoE. That is fundamentally wrong as it leaves only the loot monger or cash cow commando to be able to attain one. We fall into the category of the DWB again like Mando... it takes a group to get down there and not many folks want to take a group down there just to make someone a helmet when they get nothing out of it unless you give them 15mil to help out with getting the Alum Mineral from the foreman's quest.

How easy is it gonna be to get some group up to run a high level cave to get a rifle for a commando in the group just because he needs one after the newness wears off a cave, and it is no longer the popular hotspot? The DXR6b and the Geo pistol were easy to attain because they were able to be gotten solo. The DE-10 was a little tougher to get, but hey, once people found out about that chest before it would get bugged with a rebreather... it was rare but not that rare. We MUST have a non-AoE non-loot weapon that is able to compete with other profs in damage.... end of story. I was told twice last night that I could not use my commando weapons because of it. Convert all Carbineer specials to AoE since they ARE crowd control and see how quick they get ticked off....

Stern are we now only an AoE prof? Save me the effort of hoping that we can actually be devasting in damage and not to ourselves/group.... went from nades killing us to all of our weapons unless we have someone rooting several critters at once. What happens when some of the roots start breaking on damage? Bam we fire a shot and all hell breaks lose again.

Message Edited by Knightcrest on 05-04-2005 05:42 PM

Im taking commando now as being ment to be primarily an AoE profession but with Heavy Damage. Something that would be "feared" on a battlefield as we could lay the hurt on a multitude of enemies at once. Of course this isn't being lived up to at the moment...

The debate on having at least one new non-AoE Heavy weapon can be added to our current top list, but it may not exactly fly with the Devs since we can rely on high level non-AoE weapons that anyone can use. Remember too that we're better off than some folks with this, as a few professions are missing an entire tier of a certain level of weaponry thats certed only to them...

In my most recent post on the corr forums and to Helios, the two main points was the dissapointing AoE and the fact that we still splash through walls. Both been noted, as well as all the possible solutions I presented (such as bringing us up to par with AoE specials - been stressing at least equalized percent damage, and the such). My main goal is to preserve that heavy damage of ours (which is really: Initial + AoE + DoT + State, thus we truely should shine against MANY enemies, something NO ONE can do as effective [since AoE specials dont have both DoTs/States and the high Initial damage and arent as flexible as our AoE, in theory])

In the next patch or three we should definately be seeing some love from Helios...

Good point. Assuming it's not bugged, the Elite Carbine's CL54 requirement makes it a nice companion single-target weapon. Same goes for the DE-10 and DL44XT.

Message Edited by Raptor2k1 on 05-04-2005 03:53 PM

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StarNick wrote:
Im taking commando now as being ment to be primarily an AoE profession but with Heavy Damage. Something that would be "feared" on a battlefield as we could lay the hurt on a multitude of enemies at once. Of course this isn't being lived up to at the moment...

The debate on having at least one new non-AoE Heavy weapon can be added to our current top list, but it may not exactly fly with the Devs since we can rely on high level non-AoE weapons that anyone can use. Remember too that we're better off than some folks with this, as a few professions are missing an entire tier of a certain level of weaponry thats certed only to them...

In my most recent post on the corr forums and to Helios, the two main points was the dissapointing AoE and the fact that we still splash through walls. Both been noted, as well as all the possible solutions I presented (such as bringing us up to par with AoE specials - been stressing at least equalized percent damage, and the such). My main goal is to preserve that heavy damage of ours (which is really: Initial + AoE + DoT + State, thus we truely should shine against MANY enemies, something NO ONE can do as effective [since AoE specials dont have both DoTs/States and the high Initial damage and arent as flexible as our AoE, in theory])

In the next patch or three we should definately be seeing some love from Helios...

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Thank you for the honest reply man Well, will give it some thought tonight, but I may have to finally hang up Commando. Even with no splash through on walls we cannot use AoE in all situations. DWB for example, some rooms are big enough to pull one or two without making the entire room aggro that will cause death.A Commando should be more versatlie as a prof and not be confined to AoE to cause mass damage. If we cannot perform non-AoE attacks, then we cannot control our fire and are truly not going to be able to call ourselves masters of demolitions if we cannot shape charges or have some heavy assault weapon that is in our arsenal without looting. In the case you mention... we have no precision at all with demolitions.

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Raptor2k1 wrote:

Good point. Assuming it's not bugged, the Elite Carbine's CL54 requirement makes it a nice companion single-target weapon. Same goes for the DE-10 and DL44XT.

Message Edited by Raptor2k1 on 05-04-2005 03:53 PM

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Yep, I have a very nice Elite Carb that has better base DPSthan any heavy weapon that I have... yes it is a good companion, but I still feel I am wasting a profession if it can only be used if the place and timing is perfect. You don't see pistoleers, smugglers, and carbineers afraid to use their arsenal because they have alternative specials (and they are crowd control). We have no specials as an alternate so I am forced to be a Carbineer first and a Commando only if the situation allows it.... is that intended? If we are AoE.... give the Proton Rifle a blast radius... if it is an alternative give us one that is non looted and is attainable by normal means. I am really adamant about keeping Commando but now it is time to get set for final respec and it may or may not be the prof I had hoped... Our general mods are lower than both BH and Smuggler in general ranged speed (+40 BH and +30 Smuggler)... so if we are going to be forced to depend on another prof, ours should not be less than a smuggler (Ours is +25 general ranged speed).

Message Edited by Knightcrest on 05-04-2005 06:11 PM

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StarNick wrote:
All commando weapons (aside from MKs and Proton Rifles) do AoE. But its also a question for us as well, as the built in AoE is a bit wonky at best. Expect changes to HW AoE to bring it more in line with how our weapons were intended. (Whereas a commando needs to be careful controlling his fire, rather than a weak and underused novelty that only hinders us as it seems now)

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Forgive my ignorence but what is a MK?

Massassi Knuckler

Anyways, whats interesting...

My elite carbine has a current modified DPS of 417 dps (thats without my template being completed, im still missing +15 generic speed...as well as +5 carbine speed). Meanwhile my Plasma Flamethrower is at 453 dps. My LBC is only 17 damage points below the Elite Carbine despite being 4 levels below too.

So it is possible to have better HW...but what still stands is that its such a small difference, it doesn't play a key role. Since all our HW can take whichever special and "commando-ize" it, then our HW can easily bypass the restrictions that riflemen have imposed on their heavy front-loaded damage - special delays. If our weapons have more min/max damage or have a certain multiplier applied to the weapons that then apply to any other special - we may have unbalanced gameplay on our hands as everyone will just go for our weapons and nothing else (see: FOTM). The only way to keep us balanced AND to keep us doing heavy damage, would be both innate abilities (weapon stats and DoTs) as well mitigate that damage to surrounding targets (AoE), where against massed targets we'll be super heavy and a very worthy opponent while also forcing a commando to think before he shoots. In a way, its self balancing.

However, thats not the current case as the DoTs are a bit ineffectual (could always use an increase), but more importantly...our AoE sucks.

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StarNick wrote:
Massassi Knuckler

Anyways, whats interesting...

My elite carbine has a current modified DPS of 417 dps (thats without my template being completed, im still missing +15 generic speed...as well as +5 carbine speed). Meanwhile my Plasma Flamethrower is at 453 dps. My LBC is only 17 damage points below the Elite Carbine despite being 4 levels below too.

So it is possible to have better HW...but what still stands is that its such a small difference, it doesn't play a key role. Since all our HW can take whichever special and "commando-ize" it, then our HW can easily bypass the restrictions that riflemen have imposed on their heavy front-loaded damage - special delays. If our weapons have more min/max damage or have a certain multiplier applied to the weapons that then apply to any other special - we may have unbalanced gameplay on our hands as everyone will just go for our weapons and nothing else (see: FOTM). The only way to keep us balanced AND to keep us doing heavy damage, would be both innate abilities (weapon stats and DoTs) as well mitigate that damage to surrounding targets (AoE), where against massed targets we'll be super heavy and a very worthy opponent while also forcing a commando to think before he shoots. In a way, its self balancing.

However, thats not the current case as the DoTs are a bit ineffectual (could always use an increase), but more importantly...our AoE sucks.

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