Commando Archive
Thread: Pub24: Thumbsdown. Sry SOE, it shows this was a 5 minute brainstorm not a planned fix.
Page 1 of 2
tacwraith
Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:49 pm
#1
*thumbsdown*
The addition of specials based on min/maxweapon damageto commando proffession is a HUGE mistake.
Firstoff we are seeing the obvious errors in this idea:
1) cannot be given high damage modifiers because if they do it'd step on rifleman and BH proffessions which are allegedly supposed to be the high damage single target proffs. And face it, if we were to hit stuff HARD in aoe we'd hit them just as hard individual target. Long timers will not help commando at ALL if you have to be stationary. Lag-warps remember? No, guess SOE doesnt take lag into account in their fantasy dev cluster servers. Typical.
2) A door has opened for yet another set of massive problems for commando: Now our AOE works.. but it works BETTER with other proffession specials. Fire weapon by itself you get the 45% splash damage aoe for PFT at 25m. Use spray shot or fan shot ... and VOILA! you hit for FULL damage to ALL targets in area.
So.. umm... double-U tee FF?
conclusion : Its POINTLESS to base commando specials on their AOE. The whole concept is absolutely RETARDED and whatever arsehat dev that thought this up should be fed poothrough a straw.
3) Weapon innate abilities STILL impractical, useless and pointlessly redundant. I can do all of what the entire commando arsenal does without switching guns and by taking just 1 tree in a ranged proffession. So what's the POINT???
4) Grenades - see #3. Except their damage sucks too. Sucks so bad not even light escapes from them. Singularity suck.
I still stand by my earlier proposal:
1) Remove AOE from our weapons ENTIRELY.
2) Switch commando heavy weapon damage to ELEMENTAL. Aka all guns be 400 max damage but have elemental damage above 600 as minimum (depending on weapon level of course).
3) Introduce commando specials that INCREASE elemental damage not base min/max damage. Also specials like demolition shot if we are ever to truly get buildings and other shtuff to blow up.
4) Enchance commando weapons with EXOTIC innate abilities. Weaken, armor break, root, kd, intimidate, paralyze. We can get the other abilities like blind/stun/dizzy from other ranged proffs.
5) Allow commandos to perform any melee proffession attack with a heavy weapon equipped. Weapon damage will be applied to target just like it was a ranged shot. Allows interesting combinations of melee/ranged commando. After all, arent we supposed to be hybrids not some lame ranged specialists?
6) Switch Commando armor cert from Assault to Battle. This armor type is more balanced in protection which resonates with commando melee/ranged hybridization AND the enemies it will face.
7) Add Commando Armor . ARC Trooper craftable, color costumizable armor. Battle Cert.
8) Grenades: Split grenades into 2 types: Damage and Utility. Damage: Thermal, Proton, C22 - these should do high heat/energy/kinetic damage respectively, no effects. Utility: Cryoban, Glop,Imperial Det - Low damage but medium duration, 100% stick rate 75% snare, aoe blind+dizzy, AOE KD+stun respectively.
9) Add /holdsalute emote where player can do military salute and toon keeps hand in temple until he moves again. Helps RP a lot.
Wearrapipple
Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:07 am
#2
All useful ideas which would improve commando, except the /salute emote which would improve the RP element of the game generally rather than commandos in particular.
None of this, of course, will ever come to pass.
After 8 months of commando, 5 at master, I am ready to ditch my flamer. I am about as welcome as a fart in a space suit for top end missions like DWB. About the only place I am useful is in a jhedai spin group and I dislike most spin groups' elitist attitudes and purile txt spk.
This last patch promised 3 things but appears to have delivered one. Better than nothing, I suppose. Not good enough to make commando a viable profession yet.
Oh, who am I kidding? I'm sticking with my flamer!
Galaian
Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:55 am
#3
I'd have to agree on all points, Tac.. Granted, it's better than it was 2 years ago when the only heavy weapon available was the launcher pistol, but the situation is still far from satisfactory.
What we really need is for the devs to actually play a commando. Get on a live server and go out to Lok for awhile. That might give them an idea of what's wrong. (wishful thinking)
Azarken
Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:49 am
#4
they cant go to lok... the terminals there are only giving out delivers atm. at least on eclipse anyway
Manawitz
Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:11 am
#5
I agree w/ you also on just about everything. I don't know what the hell is wrong w/ devs. They don't understand that the player base would rather have a game that works correctly, than bugged to hell contentaimed at the profs they've made a priority. They keep handing out bandaides for gaping wounds. Who out there would rather they shut the game down for a couple weeks and have the devs really try to fix some stuff. I think their going to have to sooner or later
Thatguyfubu
Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:22 am
#6
I agree with you 100%. I especially like the melee aspect as well.
Melvic
Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:39 am
#7
tacwraith wrote:
*thumbsdown*The addition of specials based on min/max weapon damage to commando proffession is a HUGE mistake.Firstoff we are seeing the obvious errors in this idea:3) Weapon innate abilities STILL impractical, useless and pointlessly redundant. I can do all of what the entire commando arsenal does without switching guns and by taking just 1 tree in a ranged proffession. So what's the POINT???4) Enchance commando weapons with EXOTIC innate abilities. Weaken, armor break, root, kd, intimidate, paralyze. We can get the other abilities like blind/stun/dizzy from other ranged proffs.
First off, I see a lot more thumbs up to this patch than thumbs down. AoE alone made my day, the lackluster specials were a bonus anyway so I won't hold that against the publish.
As for the proposal, the redundancy depends on what temp you have. At least 4 of those 'EXOTIC' abilities are already available to ranged professions or ranged support profession (not sure what weaken is and don't SL now have something similar to armor break?), where as a Commando/Pistoleer I don't have any other way to blind, dizzy or DoT. Seems you may want to look at working on a template with some mix of Carbineer, SL, BH, and maybe Ranger instead of turning Commando into that mix.
Above and beyond that, you want to remove AoE, which as a pistoleer (Crowd Control) just sucks. There are enough primary damage dealing profs, AoE is key to Commando, lets try to work with that role.
That said, I can agree to some aspects, such as the grenades and fixing our specials and damage output. Still not sure on the armour thing, I like the assault armour, I just wish the clone trooper armour was assault.
cyrom
Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:20 am
#8
It seems like you want commando to be jedi's with guns. IT just too powerful.
CyberData4
Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:38 pm
#9
cyrom wrote:It seems like you want commando to be jedi's with guns. IT just too powerful.
I just want Jedi to be commando's with lightsabers.
StarNick
Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:35 pm
#10
First off, in my opinion AoE specials producing 100% with our weapons is not redundant...
Mainly, because it would be pointless if we did 65% with fanshot using our PFT, and...we can do A LOT more damage with our AoE and combine it with any ranged special. AoE specials in general really aren't all that useful for the kind of damage we want, save those who produce a state (ie burst shot)...it's nice that we at least can do full damage with them.
I know you're probably going to say that it'll never happen, but if we get the damage that our specials *should* have, commando AoE is really going to be a whole lot better than special AoE...
As for elemental, it's a novel idea...one of many great ones out there that could get us into a nice niche. However, it took us -how long- to get to where we are? I really highly doubt the amount of effort required to go back and change all of our weapons (would screw up those with current weapons as well) will even be considered by the developers let alone acted upon.
Commando could have been done countless of ways (such as with elemental niche, or "marine" niche with assault weapons, etc etc), but despite the ambiguity we're in at the moment, we do have something: Flexible Destruction. We're not straightforward nukers, rather we can deliver damage in a variety of ways (front loaded, at least...soon if the specials get better...and AOE), as well be functional in a general support role with our "utilities". For a while, the devs thought we could make do with just the latter...well, it sucked. Im hoping with everything we have seen in Pub 24, is a step back into the direction of being a flexible damage dealer that we were to be with the CU.
As for the rest of your points (mainly exotic states & melee skills w/ weapons), they're points I've been trying to get the dev's attention on - especially with our new weapons, but it seems they gave us better AoE % instead :/
And before I forget...a talk about changing certs came up on the corro boards (nothing dev-related, just a casual chat among the corro's), I made the point about Battle armour...will we see anything? Probably not, but it has been mentioned up there in dev central.
Mainly, because it would be pointless if we did 65% with fanshot using our PFT, and...we can do A LOT more damage with our AoE and combine it with any ranged special. AoE specials in general really aren't all that useful for the kind of damage we want, save those who produce a state (ie burst shot)...it's nice that we at least can do full damage with them.
I know you're probably going to say that it'll never happen, but if we get the damage that our specials *should* have, commando AoE is really going to be a whole lot better than special AoE...
As for elemental, it's a novel idea...one of many great ones out there that could get us into a nice niche. However, it took us -how long- to get to where we are? I really highly doubt the amount of effort required to go back and change all of our weapons (would screw up those with current weapons as well) will even be considered by the developers let alone acted upon.
Commando could have been done countless of ways (such as with elemental niche, or "marine" niche with assault weapons, etc etc), but despite the ambiguity we're in at the moment, we do have something: Flexible Destruction. We're not straightforward nukers, rather we can deliver damage in a variety of ways (front loaded, at least...soon if the specials get better...and AOE), as well be functional in a general support role with our "utilities". For a while, the devs thought we could make do with just the latter...well, it sucked. Im hoping with everything we have seen in Pub 24, is a step back into the direction of being a flexible damage dealer that we were to be with the CU.
As for the rest of your points (mainly exotic states & melee skills w/ weapons), they're points I've been trying to get the dev's attention on - especially with our new weapons, but it seems they gave us better AoE % instead :/
And before I forget...a talk about changing certs came up on the corro boards (nothing dev-related, just a casual chat among the corro's), I made the point about Battle armour...will we see anything? Probably not, but it has been mentioned up there in dev central.
XakTsaroth
Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:38 am
#11
I will go on record to state that I do not wish a change in certs for armor. Assault armor classification is fine as it provides nice kinetic and since we need to be in close for most attacks it should help us vs. melee. Commandos should be decent vs. them. I do not like the in between idea for battle - just make the ARC armor or clone trooper armor have an assault variety.
Xak Tsaroth
CyberData4
Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:21 pm
#12
The core problem with the commando profession is that there isn't really things for us to blow up. We're not suppose to be that great against single targets. We should EXCELL at destroying vehicles/buildings/structures.
There just isn't enough of that in the game to make us viable. I say they should add some tanks and revamp the mission system to create REAL buildings for us to destroy. Give us the ability to use imperial detonators to destroy buildings and such.
That's what a commando in SWG should be good at....that and burning things....
There just isn't enough of that in the game to make us viable. I say they should add some tanks and revamp the mission system to create REAL buildings for us to destroy. Give us the ability to use imperial detonators to destroy buildings and such.
That's what a commando in SWG should be good at....that and burning things....
Lugiana
Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:00 am
#13
Excuse me if this was already mentioned but here's my idea of a Commando: Commandos generally are shown as people who use a large variety of weapons, and are best known for explosive and heavy weapons like machine guns, rpgs, etc. A commando doing elemental type damage makes sense more than one using a flame thrower that does energy damage. The ability to take down large vehicles and structures is presented as the main concept of their destructive path. By allowing them this ability however, they are still of very little use seeing as how there are not many vehicles other than speeders.As is speeders are not much threat, a rifleman can whoop an at-st without even healing, and a base turret doesn't bother me much. What I'm trying to say is that commando as a class should possess more anti-personel and ways of using these limited-stack explosives in a better way than 800 damage I could have done with a flame thrower. And I don't think an ability that kills your weapon is the correct fix to this by all means.If this class were to get a more balanced arsenal with average combat ability and advanced vs. vehicle that would be great but as is there is no place for a commando that another class cannot fill, and in most cases, do better. Like... Bounty Hunter 
And btw sorry there are no seperate lines for a break on your eyes, but it was being buggy. 
Page 1 of 2