Commando Archive
Thread: Sorry but this needs to be said
they are grumpy about all the jedis running around
grumpy about the game not having any real direction...
its been a year, where are we now? revamping the entire game....
people have a reason.
thepunisher286 wrote:
i think people are grumpy about weapon delay
they are grumpy about all the jedis running around
grumpy about the game not having any real direction...
its been a year, where are we now? revamping the entire game....
people have a reason.
Very true. Here is something else that makes me lose a lot of hope. Have you seen TH's thread on Patch 9 problems? Almost every other post is say how terrible the weapon delay is and that it should be removed. It is up to like page 30 by now. It makes me wonder what the DEVs were thinking when this change was made. They put it in at the last minute (shady at best) and then didnt pay attention to us when we say it is horrible. Why tell people to go on test center and see if they like it when they dont care if we like it or not?
Ster wrote:
Very true. Here is something else that makes me lose a lot of hope. Have you seen TH's thread on Patch 9 problems? Almost every other post is say how terrible the weapon delay is and that it should be removed. It is up to like page 30 by now. It makes me wonder what the DEVs were thinking when this change was made. They put it in at the last minute (shady at best) and then didnt pay attention to us when we say it is horrible. Why tell people to go on test center and see if they like it when they dont care if we like it or not?
Just because people don't like something doesn't make it wrong.
The purpose of the testing servers is to ensure that changes are working as intended, not to see if people like the changes.
lisasdarren wrote:
Ster wrote:
Very true. Here is something else that makes me lose a lot of hope. Have you seen TH's thread on Patch 9 problems? Almost every other post is say how terrible the weapon delay is and that it should be removed. It is up to like page 30 by now. It makes me wonder what the DEVs were thinking when this change was made. They put it in at the last minute (shady at best) and then didnt pay attention to us when we say it is horrible. Why tell people to go on test center and see if they like it when they dont care if we like it or not?
Just because people don't like something doesn't make it wrong.
The purpose of the testing servers is to ensure that changes are working as intended, not to see if people like the changes.
Thats not true. A purpose of test center is to ensure the changes, however another main reason is to get feedback about the new system put into place. For instance, the Jedi started screaming that the revamp needed another week and that they didnt like stuff that was on TC. Next thing you know it was delayed and tweaked. The crafting change that happend a while back is another.
TC is to get feedback from the players which includes bugs and gameplay. If this wasnt the case, then no one would be on TC.This is why Garvin has been telling us to get TC accounts so that when the CB comes we can test and tell them whether it is up to par or not.
Just because people don't like something doesn't make it wrong.
Actually in my eyes it does make it wrong when an overwhelming number of the playerbase (sorry you are in the extreme minority here) states that this was a terrible idea. Just take a look at THs response thread. Every other post is on either the armor or weapon delay. 30 pages of people stating that it was a bad idea! Multiple people in-game, in and out of my guild, saying that their secondary professions are virtually useless. They cannot be blind to it. I am also tired of them insulting our intelligence by saying that the armor delay was not all for the Jedi. I cant think of one exploit for it and I challenge anyone else to find a legitimate exploit for the game right now.
At any rate regardless of what the DEVs thought this fix would do it did not go over well with the playerbase. They continue to state that they just want the game to be fun. That they did something because the "fun" factor of it wasnt high enough. This is the worst change I have seen in the history of the game. And that is coming from someone who has been around since beta.
Ster wrote:
TC is to get feedback from the players which includes bugs and gameplay. If this wasnt the case, then no one would be on TC.This is why Garvin has been telling us to get TC accounts so that when the CB comes we can test and tell them whether it is up to par or not.
Bugs and gameplay, you said it... however something that is good for gameplay may not be something people like.
Just because people don't like something doesn't make it wrong.
Actually in my eyes it does make it wrong when an overwhelming number of the playerbase (sorry you are in the extreme minority here) states that this was a terrible idea. Just take a look at THs response thread. Every other post is on either the armor or weapon delay. 30 pages of people stating that it was a bad idea! Multiple people in-game, in and out of my guild, saying that their secondary professions are virtually useless. They cannot be blind to it. I am also tired of them insulting our intelligence by saying that the armor delay was not all for the Jedi. I cant think of one exploit for it and I challenge anyone else to find a legitimate exploit for the game right now.
Okay we obviously have differing opinions on this, just because the masses, who don't have all the information at their disposal, dislike something doesn't make it wrong. The vast majority of people dislike taxes, however they shouldn't be abolished because of this as they serve a purpose. I am well aware i am in the minority, thats because I tend to try and look at the bigger picture rather than instantly complaining that my favorite toy has gone and i want it back, Waaahhhh!!!
As to the fact that there are 30 pages of posts on the boards... big deal, it has had an affect on the way people play the game and stopped them from doing things they are used to doing, of course they will complain.
As to the armour delay let me see if i can come up with some other senarios where this delay stops people avoiding fiddling the system?
- Unequiping armour between fights in a dungeon to increase your regen speed, one of the penalties for chosing to wear armour is the encumbrance being able to remove it easily to regen negates this penalty.
- Starting a fight unarmoured to keep your special cost down and regen up, then instantly putting it on when you start taking serious damage.
- Being able to not wear your armour while doing other things, healing, buffing etc and then being able to switch into it if you get unexpectedly attacked. Not an exploit, but it does remove the tactics of ambush.
Also it was stated, though i don't remember where, that this change was part of the combat balance brought in early, remember they are re-vamping armour in the CB so there may well be good reason to pick an armour type other than Composite against certain weapons. This change means that you will have to either gather information on your enemy or take a chance on having the most suitable armour equiped when you enter the fight, you can't switch armour to the best sort depending on your opponents weapon. Again this is a tactical descision and one of the things the CB is supposed to be doing is making tactics more important in combat.
They are not insulting your intelligence, the armour delay has other reasons to exist beyond jedi, if they were just trying to stop jedi wearing armour they could do exactly that using the certification coding that already exists.
Ster wrote:
Look, I understand your arguments but I still believe the DEVs put this code in at the wrong time. Even if they thought that this was a good decision it needed to wait till the combat balance. Right now there are two extremely hurt professions in this game due to the bug. You cannot argue with this fact. Commandos cannot win PvE or PvP (which we never have been able to) period. We cannot afford to use the FT and take the hits.
What information do you think we dont have at our disposal? The CB changes? No kidding. Whos fault? The DEVs. Why? Because they have no clue what they are going to do to it. I guarantee all of their resources are on JTL and the Jedi Revamp. Between the two they have done nothing but brainstorm and have general ideasfor the CB. If you dont think that, then you are just naive.
As for complaining about the toy we lost... most of the people complaining have been around for a long time. We know this game and more importantly we know our profession inside and out. A ton of the leadersyou see post were in beta including me. We are not whining because we lost a toy, if that were the case then we wouldnt be able to give actual facts and reasons behind our thoughts. We would just be another ranter on the boards incoherent with huge letters saying, "j00 sux0|2s."
The point that I am trying to make is that you are thinking of us as just ranters instead of people that have had a year (and 3 months of beta) worth of experience in this game. I am not an exploiter, I am not a temploiter, I am just a commando that is trying to play an unplayable profession.
And I can respect your opinion, I can see why people who are used to improving their defences by switching to unarmed to benefit from the unarmed toughness and to lose the ranged vs melee penalty would be upset by this change.
However I do see this switching to gain defences as a type of fiddle or cheat (though not an exploit) you are getting the benefit of using the FT to do your damage, while avoiding the built in penalties of using the FT (defence penalty, no toughness etc). So commando is not good enough without avoiding this penalty? Is that an excuse for trying to get around the game mechanics? I don't think so personally, play it correctly and campaign for changes, showing you can be effective by using these types of fiddles just weakens your case for improvements.
I am sure you are not as effective now, but thats just the way it is. What we need is an improvement to melee and ranged defences for commando and a commando toughness that works whichever commando weapon we are using (plus various other things) and hopefully the CB will bring these things in and make commando worth the points.
lisasdarren wrote:
I agree with not being able to win PVP, since i started commando i have only used my commando weapons, no switching to improve my defences etc. I havn't had a problem with taking the hits in PVE. Most defenses still stack across professions anyhow so you being a TKM should be significantly better off in defence than me, yet i am able to kill critters with ease and your not. I don't get why this should be.
Have you tried Night Sisters or being surrounded by like 8 force crystal hunters at the cave or the DWB or the corvette? Nochance if that FT isequiped. I guess I forgot to mentionthat since I dont have that much play time lately I only go after the big things.You are right my defenses stack with the TKM, but the melee mit 3 and unarmed toughness really really help. (I should also like to mention here that I have never worn comp armor before in a fight. Usually just Padded which has resistances similar to what we will have after the CB.)I suggested earlier to give a toughness when the FT is equiped since we are forced into melee range by design. That probably wont fly though.
Ster wrote:
A real quick post because I think we have both got our points accross.
Agreed
Have you tried Night Sisters or being surrounded by like 8 force crystal hunters at the cave or the DWB or the corvette? Nochance if that FT isequiped. I guess I forgot to mentionthat since I dont have that much play time lately I only go after the big things.You are right my defenses stack with the TKM, but the melee mit 3 and unarmed toughness really really help. (I should also like to mention here that I have never worn comp armor before in a fight. Usually just Padded which has resistances similar to what we will have after the CB.)I suggested earlier to give a toughness when the FT is equiped since we are forced into melee range by design. That probably wont fly though.
Fair enough on the NS etc, i havn't been going after stuff that big...
As to the toughness i think that is the ideal way to give commandos defence, we're the tough guys, the ones with stubble you can strike a match on and always smoking a cigar. We don't care if we get hit, because we're tough enough to shrug it off... Fits perfectly with my image of commandos, maybe we should start a thread requesting that it is seriosuly considered for the CB.
lisasdarren wrote:
Ster wrote:
A real quick post because I think we have both got our points accross.Agreed
Have you tried Night Sisters or being surrounded by like 8 force crystal hunters at the cave or the DWB or the corvette? No chance if that FT is equiped. I guess I forgot to mention that since I dont have that much play time lately I only go after the big things. You are right my defenses stack with the TKM, but the melee mit 3 and unarmed toughness really really help. (I should also like to mention here that I have never worn comp armor before in a fight. Usually just Padded which has resistances similar to what we will have after the CB.) I suggested earlier to give a toughness when the FT is equiped since we are forced into melee range by design. That probably wont fly though.
Fair enough on the NS etc, i havn't been going after stuff that big...
As to the toughness i think that is the ideal way to give commandos defence, we're the tough guys, the ones with stubble you can strike a match on and always smoking a cigar. We don't care if we get hit, because we're tough enough to shrug it off... Fits perfectly with my image of commandos, maybe we should start a thread requesting that it is seriosuly considered for the CB.
Oddly enough, I've had that image too. Arnie in the film "Commando" kind of thing, or the black dude in "Predator" who hasn't got time to bleed.
As for the weapon delay, like the flame DOT change, it's a change that people could learn to live with if they had something to compensate. The DOT change is known as a nerf. Why? Because it reduced the effectiveness of Commando, which was already lower than other classes, but at the same time nothing was given back to keep us at a similar level.
Yes, equipping VKs during special recharge to benefit from their toughness is probably something that the devs hadn't thought of, but at the same time is something I see as a clever way of dealing with a deficiency which shouldn't exist. If Commandos had been given a toughness mod to make up for their strategy being taken away, we wouldn't have been complaining nearly as much. Likewise, if BHs (and possibly pistoleers) had been given some kind of mod to speed up the change, there'd have been less complaining there.
After all, I guarantee that a well trained user of firearms could holster a pistol and draw another one in under two seconds. How long would it take you to sling back the carbine that you've got on a shoulder strap and pull a pistol. I'll bet that if you were a proper bad ass desperado kind of barve like a BH is meant to be, it'd be a second or two as well. But of course, the Devs are left with screams of "NERF!" yet again, as they make a global sweeping change without giving some kind of compenstaion to whoever gets hurt the most.