Commando Archive
Thread: Top 3
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StarNick
Tue May 31, 2005 2:49 pm
#1
Hey folks, Tiggs has asked for the Top 3 issues (with bugs) and one non-profession issue from the Correspondents. Just finished tping up commando's and sent it in. Here it is:
Please excuse me, as these issues are long and outlined in great detail. Within each general issue we have a number of smaller bugs/sub-issues that affects the main issue. None have a single one element that is broken, or one element has too much intended penalty and needs some reworking or etc. Each issue has multiple items that are currently bugged or failing expectations, and thus are gravely hurting the Commando Profession. Each are very important...each have equal footing for commandos:
Commando Issue 1: Area of Effect (AoE) Splash Damage
BUGS:
Heavy Weapon AoE, upon hitting targets in radius, is only doing 1 damage regardless of special or creature. The weapons aggro, but they do not damage.
AoE still hits and aggros targets through walls (however not Doors in the DWB)
SUB-ISSUES:
AoE Splash damage needs an increase to 100% and commandos need additional "power-ups" for weapons. Having an all AoE profession is detrimental for high level boss mobs (we do NOT live up to a 5 offense rating against single mobs, and get outdamaged by non-damage dealers). Having some weapons (non-loot, unlike the Proton Rifle), that have non-AoE capabilities will allow the profession to perform its role in tight spaces like dungeons as well, since our AoE correctly is no longer "group friendly".
Description: Through testing, it has been found that extremely rarely and only produced 4 times during testing and live play personally since the CU launched, we do get 40% and 80% splash damage on the Plasma Flamethrower and Flamethrower respectively, however these are freak occurances. Some weapons do no splash damage whatsoever, yet used to during the CU Beta and are also labelled to do splash damage.
The Community is expecting to see full AoE splash damage, exactly like AoE specials as our weapons either get outdamage DPS wise (which with Post-CU components is VERY common, my alt is a Master Weaponsmith) and since our Heavy Weapons are detrimental to use in high level PvE or dungeons. This bug prevents commando weapons from being used in AoE (groups often are now BANNING commandos from groups or at least their weapons with continual use, as the group gets mob rushed due to aggro - and we're not tanks), hence even with the bug fixed commandos still do not have much to fall back on (having other ways for our weapons to special up, is the primary suggestion...either through damage or an armour break, outlined in our State of the Commando Profession document submitted in the Correspondent Forums).
Commando Issue 2: Grenades
BUGS:
It has been reported that both Pre-CU converted grenades and Post-CU crafted grenades are having timers excess to 180+ seconds. This does NOT fit in with the testing I conducted on Testcenter (where I was able to test out the intended effects), as those grenades were wrought from Blue Frogs
It has been found, in order to produce the fullest and greatest damage effect from grenades, one must have a weapon (tested with ranged weapons only) equiped. Otherwise grenades will do between 80-250 damage rather than upwards to 600-800 damage (in terms of Thermal Detonators and Proton Grenades, the most damaging). Weapons, such as the Proton Rifle, which cannot fire at this time due to a bug also effects this. Where if you equip a Proton Rifle, you cannot throw a grenade.
With grenade radius, it has been reported that radii on grenades are not working as intended. Folks who throw a grenade 40+ meters away, are many times aggroing and hitting (in a radial blast) creatures that are behind their characters. Hence it appears that in some cases the radius either starts at the character's feet, or a "second" blast radius occurs at the thrower's feet while the intended blast radius occurs where the grenade was thrown.
Fire DoTs generated by grenades (such as the Proton Grenades, this also is the same for the Lightning Beam Cannon, and both flamethrowers as they produce fire dots as well), "incapacitate" PvE creatures since DoTs do not kill players/creatures in combat. However, the NPC creature is incapped, all states are wiped off, and it gets up a 1 or 3 seconds later. You must re-initiate combat in order to kill the creature.
SUB-ISSUES:
State Effects are weak - DoTs are negligble and states such as "snare" either last for a second or two, or don't even stick. Only one grenade has been found to perform decently with its intended state (blind), the glop grenade.
Stack size was NOT raised as promised pre-CU. They are still being crafted in stacks of 5.
Grenades are difficult to craft for weaponsmiths, as they require many components which results in many days of multiple factory use to produce a run of grenades. Due to the penalty laden nature of grenades now, there is virtually no market for these difficult to craft weapons. Likewise, because of this...the Rocket Launcher remains the hardest weapon to craft and most resource intensive as it requires proton grenades from a factory crate, and its only a CL 22 weapon.
Grenade Damage is pitifully weak. One must have a weapon equiped in order to achieve the remotest amount of damage to a master weapon using a proton grenade, and even then most novice weapon specials can far out damage if our best grenades when you factor armour and grenade timers. If grenade timers on crafted grenades were not bugged, even the intended grenade timer of 18 seconds (as well as the indepedent timer of some grenades that adds to this) makes grenades virtually worthless.
They are virtually worthless, to a degree, as they're laden with far too many restrictions: Damage is weak, states are weak, timers are painfully long, they're time consuming to make and hence are expensive. There is NOTHING positive in using a grenade, as you aggro a radius of 30 meters with what makes a small pebble a more proficient choice of a weapon.
Description:Grenade Damage, stack size, and Timers are the most inhibiting issue for the other half of commandos that are not Heavy Weapons. Through testing, grenades all have a fundamental time between throws of 18 seconds. Some have added independent timers of upwards to 8 seconds between throws of the same grenade (apparently intended, the Thermal Detonators...weaker to Proton Grenades, have a what appears to be a 24 second independent timer). For the damage being delt (upwards to around 800 energy or kinetic), and the pitifully weak states (DoTs are negligble and most states such as "snare" either last for a second or two, or don't even stick), having these grossly artificially high delays cripples the grenade usage of commandos.
Furthermore, grenades are notorious for weaponsmiths to craft. They're uneconomically sound for commandos, as a crate for even low CL imperial detonators can be sold for upwards to 100k credits. This is due to the fact that it many times takes days, and a dozen or more factory runs of components to produce a one run of one type of grenades. There are far too many negatives for a commando to use or buy grenades, given that both the rocket launcher requires proton grenades to craft it and that the grenades are 25% of our profession, this is a big issue for commandos. If fixed, grenades will be very useful tools to us, maybe even in the form of making grenades ammunition for a grenade launcher at Master Level that significantly beefs up grenade damages, in order for commando not to become a "FOTM" and abused as grenades had in the past, is in order.
Commando Issue 3: The Proton Rifle
BUGS:
The Proton Rifle "misfires" - when trying to fire off specials, the rifle makes a "click" and does nothing.
SUB-ISSUES:
The Weapon comes off of a CL92 boss NPC (NK-Necrosis) that is hard to take down. Furthermore, this is our only Non-AoE weapon (despite its mis-label of having a radius of 6 meters. In Beta it was Non-AoE, and if it was the weapon does not have any innate states anyways), and its only available to commandos who have the new expansion pack. This weapon is also a random loot off of Necrosis
The Proton Rifle is a "Heavy Weapon". However, its DPS is significantly weaker compared to the Proton Carbine (Master BH cert, also around 320 Base DPS compared to 270 Base DPS). The Proton Carbine can be easily soloed by a near CL80 template, and is recieved via a quest, not a random loot. These are two negatives for the weapon, especially for a damage dealing profession that has no other intended non-AoE weapon. The +10 HW Accuracy/Speed helps, but the rifle will always be weaker than a non-damage dealing (as a primary role) profession's weapon.
Description:The Proton Rifle is very important to commandos give its long range capabilities, being a master weapon, and being the only intended Non-AoE weapon in a commando's arsenal. It is not easily accessible to most commandos, and even when it is, it currently cannot fire with any specials. Likewise, when equiped you cannot toss grenades either due to the same bug. Since it was deemed that Commando was to be a AoE-only special, having the Proton Rifle at least to be able to fire is very important...and having it accessible to commandos next.
With a final last note, these issues/bugs have been with the profession since the CU Launched, and this Top Three is virtually the same as the first...expanded, as each weapon and grenade and ability has been thoroughly tested and duly noted with the construction of "The State of the Commando Profession" document. Because of these three issues, most notably the first two, the commando profession has been crippled in PvE and is on the fasttrack to becoming the same one trick pony before the CU.
Non-Profession Issue 1: The Deathwatch Bunker
Description:The Death watch bunker is light-years away from being balanced currently. Whole groups, or even two groups are getting slaughtered within the first one or two hallways of the bunker - by a handful of battle droids. Jedi also fall here as well, and whole groups are cut down before they can even get past the first door. The cause is the fact that these mobs not only have "elite" status, but also are Combat Level 89 or 92, where the damage multipliers cause these NPCs to hit players for 500-2500+ damage. Since groups are regulated to 8 members, dungeons such as the DWB must be doable by a full group. Currently, even with jedi healers and dedicated non-jedi healers, groups get decimated. No amount of strategy can be used as the dungeon has literally hundreds of enemies and the NPCs there are ranged (unlike Necrosis who, a skilled group can continually root and be able to kill the boss from a far). No content in the game should require jedi to tank or to help a group get through a dungeon, but the Death Watch bunker goes further where even the jedi get slaughtered with their non-jedi groupmembers. Either bring these mobs down to CL80-82 and have the sheer numbers be potent enough to take on the groups, or nix the damage multipliers. The same occurance is prevalent in other dungeons such as the Corvette and Geo Bunker.
Please excuse me, as these issues are long and outlined in great detail. Within each general issue we have a number of smaller bugs/sub-issues that affects the main issue. None have a single one element that is broken, or one element has too much intended penalty and needs some reworking or etc. Each issue has multiple items that are currently bugged or failing expectations, and thus are gravely hurting the Commando Profession. Each are very important...each have equal footing for commandos:
BUGS:
SUB-ISSUES:
Description: Through testing, it has been found that extremely rarely and only produced 4 times during testing and live play personally since the CU launched, we do get 40% and 80% splash damage on the Plasma Flamethrower and Flamethrower respectively, however these are freak occurances. Some weapons do no splash damage whatsoever, yet used to during the CU Beta and are also labelled to do splash damage.
The Community is expecting to see full AoE splash damage, exactly like AoE specials as our weapons either get outdamage DPS wise (which with Post-CU components is VERY common, my alt is a Master Weaponsmith) and since our Heavy Weapons are detrimental to use in high level PvE or dungeons. This bug prevents commando weapons from being used in AoE (groups often are now BANNING commandos from groups or at least their weapons with continual use, as the group gets mob rushed due to aggro - and we're not tanks), hence even with the bug fixed commandos still do not have much to fall back on (having other ways for our weapons to special up, is the primary suggestion...either through damage or an armour break, outlined in our State of the Commando Profession document submitted in the Correspondent Forums).
BUGS:
SUB-ISSUES:
They are virtually worthless, to a degree, as they're laden with far too many restrictions: Damage is weak, states are weak, timers are painfully long, they're time consuming to make and hence are expensive. There is NOTHING positive in using a grenade, as you aggro a radius of 30 meters with what makes a small pebble a more proficient choice of a weapon.
Description:Grenade Damage, stack size, and Timers are the most inhibiting issue for the other half of commandos that are not Heavy Weapons. Through testing, grenades all have a fundamental time between throws of 18 seconds. Some have added independent timers of upwards to 8 seconds between throws of the same grenade (apparently intended, the Thermal Detonators...weaker to Proton Grenades, have a what appears to be a 24 second independent timer). For the damage being delt (upwards to around 800 energy or kinetic), and the pitifully weak states (DoTs are negligble and most states such as "snare" either last for a second or two, or don't even stick), having these grossly artificially high delays cripples the grenade usage of commandos.
Furthermore, grenades are notorious for weaponsmiths to craft. They're uneconomically sound for commandos, as a crate for even low CL imperial detonators can be sold for upwards to 100k credits. This is due to the fact that it many times takes days, and a dozen or more factory runs of components to produce a one run of one type of grenades. There are far too many negatives for a commando to use or buy grenades, given that both the rocket launcher requires proton grenades to craft it and that the grenades are 25% of our profession, this is a big issue for commandos. If fixed, grenades will be very useful tools to us, maybe even in the form of making grenades ammunition for a grenade launcher at Master Level that significantly beefs up grenade damages, in order for commando not to become a "FOTM" and abused as grenades had in the past, is in order.
BUGS:
SUB-ISSUES:
Description:The Proton Rifle is very important to commandos give its long range capabilities, being a master weapon, and being the only intended Non-AoE weapon in a commando's arsenal. It is not easily accessible to most commandos, and even when it is, it currently cannot fire with any specials. Likewise, when equiped you cannot toss grenades either due to the same bug. Since it was deemed that Commando was to be a AoE-only special, having the Proton Rifle at least to be able to fire is very important...and having it accessible to commandos next.
With a final last note, these issues/bugs have been with the profession since the CU Launched, and this Top Three is virtually the same as the first...expanded, as each weapon and grenade and ability has been thoroughly tested and duly noted with the construction of "The State of the Commando Profession" document. Because of these three issues, most notably the first two, the commando profession has been crippled in PvE and is on the fasttrack to becoming the same one trick pony before the CU.
Description:The Death watch bunker is light-years away from being balanced currently. Whole groups, or even two groups are getting slaughtered within the first one or two hallways of the bunker - by a handful of battle droids. Jedi also fall here as well, and whole groups are cut down before they can even get past the first door. The cause is the fact that these mobs not only have "elite" status, but also are Combat Level 89 or 92, where the damage multipliers cause these NPCs to hit players for 500-2500+ damage. Since groups are regulated to 8 members, dungeons such as the DWB must be doable by a full group. Currently, even with jedi healers and dedicated non-jedi healers, groups get decimated. No amount of strategy can be used as the dungeon has literally hundreds of enemies and the NPCs there are ranged (unlike Necrosis who, a skilled group can continually root and be able to kill the boss from a far). No content in the game should require jedi to tank or to help a group get through a dungeon, but the Death Watch bunker goes further where even the jedi get slaughtered with their non-jedi groupmembers. Either bring these mobs down to CL80-82 and have the sheer numbers be potent enough to take on the groups, or nix the damage multipliers. The same occurance is prevalent in other dungeons such as the Corvette and Geo Bunker.
Message Edited by StarNick on 05-31-2005 07:48 PM
Knightcrest
Tue May 31, 2005 2:57 pm
#2
Oh, like you were saying 'nades have to have a weapon equipped. I noticed that with MComm/TKM with no weapons equipped... 'nade damage was 690 regardless of the type 'nade. Funny thing is... what is my melee hit attack (basic brawler attack) do for damage with my TKM? 690
StarNick
Tue May 31, 2005 3:13 pm
#5
No responses to anything commando related in the past 3 weeks(except for that issue with the cybernetic arms increasing range and our AoE potentially causing 99 or so range).
I swear, you can't make this up...but we went from the greatest direct internal developer feedback/contact during the CU Beta, to absolutely nothing. Only a week after the CU Launched when Helios came back agreeing to a lot of our top issues as well as Tiggs noting that our updated list of issues have beent sent in have been the two bits of of relief for me honestly. Two Top 3 issue collection lists have come and gone, and our's has only bulged rather than shrunk, and with the same issues.... :/
Don't lose hope though, Im hoping that Helios is somewhere in there working feverishly our grenades and weapons. Both components are significant to our profession and both got redesigned in the CU, but ironically still need redesigning to better supplement each other and elevate the profession to a 5 offense rating.
I swear, you can't make this up...but we went from the greatest direct internal developer feedback/contact during the CU Beta, to absolutely nothing. Only a week after the CU Launched when Helios came back agreeing to a lot of our top issues as well as Tiggs noting that our updated list of issues have beent sent in have been the two bits of of relief for me honestly. Two Top 3 issue collection lists have come and gone, and our's has only bulged rather than shrunk, and with the same issues.... :/
Don't lose hope though, Im hoping that Helios is somewhere in there working feverishly our grenades and weapons. Both components are significant to our profession and both got redesigned in the CU, but ironically still need redesigning to better supplement each other and elevate the profession to a 5 offense rating.
nerfherder321
Tue May 31, 2005 3:14 pm
#6
StarNick wrote:
No responses to anything commando related in the past 3 weeks(except for that issue with the cybernetic arms increasing range and our AoE potentially causing 99 or so range).
I swear, you can't make this up...but we went from the greatest direct internal developer feedback/contact during the CU Beta, to absolutely nothing. Only a week after the CU Launched when Helios came back agreeing to a lot of our top issues as well as Tiggs noting that our updated list of issues have beent sent in have been the two bits of of relief for me honestly. Two Top 3 issue collection lists have come and gone, and our's has only bulged rather than shrunk, and with the same issues.... :/
Don't lose hope though, Im hoping that Helios is somewhere in there working feverishly our grenades and weapons. Both components are significant to our profession and both got redesigned in the CU, but ironically still need redesigning to better supplement each other and elevate the profession to a 5 offense rating.
they have him chained to the basement... along with GM most likely
Knightcrest
Tue May 31, 2005 3:19 pm
#7
Take a look at today's Tuesday Tip. TH acted ignorant to the fact that armor break is borked to the high heavens and now jumps all over checking numbers and comparisons on armor break and saber armor break. You can't tell me that the Melee/Jedi Correspondents have not been making this big issue known in on the Correspondent boards and he sends the playerbase into a shark feeding frenzy because he was blind to that fact. We need them to make the Stopping Shot paired with Heavy Weapons Tip appear again so that we can express there that none of our stuff works right....that the root is the only thing valuable about hitting them all at the same time.... so he can act like Ernest Goes to Camp SWG and fix our freaking weapons/specials.
Message Edited by Knightcrest on 05-31-2005 05:21 PM
Draycan
Tue May 31, 2005 3:52 pm
#9
beautifully done Star Nick...now all we can do is hope that the Dev's listen
liZaRdTrIx
Tue May 31, 2005 3:57 pm
#10
Ahh, i cant wait to be commando again..
Nice post Stern
Message Edited by liZaRdTrIx on 05-31-2005 08:00 PM
VitoGenovese
Tue May 31, 2005 4:03 pm
#11
Good Job Starnick!
The only things I would add to it is
1) we have no specials. Even if AOE was working properly we have no special attack that gives us some bonus or higher damage, or an altered state anywhere in our profession. This is a severe handicap compared to any other profession.
2) Our damage sucks. All of my previously very nice weapons converted into 3-coil peanut-laden steamers. For instance I outdamage my flamethrower with any of several pistols, many of which are not master certified.
The only things I would add to it is
1) we have no specials. Even if AOE was working properly we have no special attack that gives us some bonus or higher damage, or an altered state anywhere in our profession. This is a severe handicap compared to any other profession.
2) Our damage sucks. All of my previously very nice weapons converted into 3-coil peanut-laden steamers. For instance I outdamage my flamethrower with any of several pistols, many of which are not master certified.
StarNick
Tue May 31, 2005 4:48 pm
#12
The issue of the lack of specials or our weapons "powering-up" specials is noted in the AoE greater issue. That we don't get 100% AoE splash damage, and that its detrimental to commando to have just AoE...is our numero uno. This includes the bugs that are associated with AoE, and the solutions of giving either offensive specials or armour break - or just damage in general to our weapons to achieve our role.
And just a note...realized I made an error! Will correct
And just a note...realized I made an error! Will correct
Knightcrest
Tue May 31, 2005 5:27 pm
#13
StarNick wrote:
The issue of the lack of specials or our weapons "powering-up" specials is noted in the AoE greater issue. That we don't get 100% AoE splash damage, and that its detrimental to commando to have just AoE...is our numero uno. This includes the bugs that are associated with AoE, and the solutions of giving either offensive specials or armour break - or just damage in general to our weapons to achieve our role.
And just a note...realized I made an error! Will correct
Armor Break still seems the answer... I mean there is no ranged armor break as it is right? The only I can think of is LS and Twohanded and using Armor Break is extremely handy. In the current system, there is no real point to melee except for extreme high end content to where a MDef Jedi is very valuable. Melee tanks do not draw enough hate from their taunt skills and the recharge on them is slower than Christmas. I rarely have a tank do any good in a group that is not a ranged tank besides holding one critter off while the ranged concentrate fire on the one they hit first with multiple aggro... thus still needing a ranged tank that could be doing them same thing all together, or just rooting them so no one is taking damage. This comes back to the old intimidate... only way to intimidate was having brawler, but they made it balanced in having a ranged intimidate and a melee intimidate now. Why not have melee armor break (base, improved, advanced) and ranged armor break (base[Nov. Comm], improved[3rd or 4th tier box in Commando], [Advanced Armor Break [Master Commando])? I mean we are supposed to be dealing with vehicle, base, turret, busting using artillery... shouldn't we be breaking the armor?
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