Commando Archive

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aeuralis wrote:

TH posted this on friday:

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Court-Jester wrote:

2 more fridays until Jan is over. Combat info?

*edit*

Just noticed this is part 1. /crossesfingers...

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I'm putting together the first CU stuff for next Friday, but its just the beginning. They wont be every week or anything, though Cal and I are working hard to get you a CU update early next week.

Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager

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This is what he posted 5 months ago

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*comandeers the sockpuppet*

The original vision for Commandos is that they are Heavy Weapon Specialists.

What I've done though is communicate to the devs that all the professions consitantly say, "What is our role?"

I'm excited to say the Keldarin has lead a strike team for the combat balance and come up with some very exciting stuff. I'm working on putting it all into a single article and make it next week's Friday Feature

Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager

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Don't they seem remarkably similiar ?

So the question of the week is: After 5 months is TH actually going to do what he says THIS time?

I hope he does but i am skeptical.

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The biggest difference is that SOETyrant also said that we should expect CU info to be coming January...That old FF never came because the plug got pulled on TH...Pretty much nobody pulls the plug on SOETyrant (he pulls the plug on others). Of course, as we've painfully learned, nothing is ever guarenteed and we are getting well use to disappointment sad to say, but still, seeing SOETyrant taking a more active role does make me personally feel more optimistic that those doors that kept getting closed on TH (preventing him from sharing) will finally open wider. Remember...TH doesn't decide what he can share when...He's told what he can and can't share when and where and occasionally (seems like often), he get's a "change of plans" order at the last minute and then he (in his role) is the target for all the heat.

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garvin wrote:

The biggest difference is that SOETyrant also said that we should expect CU info to be coming January...That old FF never came because the plug got pulled on TH...Pretty much nobody pulls the plug on SOETyrant (he pulls the plug on others). Of course, as we've painfully learned, nothing is ever guarenteed and we are getting well use to disappointment sad to say, but still, seeing SOETyrant taking a more active role does make me personally feel more optimistic that those doors that kept getting closed on TH (preventing him from sharing) will finally open wider. Remember...TH doesn't decide what he can share when...He's told what he can and can't share when and where and occasionally (seems like often), he get's a "change of plans" order at the last minute and then he (in his role) is the target for all the heat.

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Sad part is he could have simply made a post prior to that next FF and say sry guys I really wanted to get this to you but circumstances changed and I was not able to and won't be able to. But no he did not such thing. Let the FF post with all the commandos and others eager to see what would be said and instead huge let down. Even then no post saying it cut cut, cancelled or delayed just an open ended promises with no follow up communication. You can give him an out on being nixed but surely can't see an out for him not have the respect enough to follow up on it with community. I know that's probably expecting way to much from a man paid to be a Community Relations Manager but hey what can I say.

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aeuralis wrote:

TH posted this on friday:

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Court-Jester wrote:

2 more fridays until Jan is over. Combat info?

*edit*

Just noticed this is part 1. /crossesfingers...

---

I'm putting together the first CU stuff for next Friday, but its just the beginning. They wont be every week or anything, though Cal and I are working hard to get you a CU update early next week.

Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what he posted 5 months ago

---

*comandeers the sockpuppet*

The original vision for Commandos is that they are Heavy Weapon Specialists.

What I've done though is communicate to the devs that all the professions consitantly say, "What is our role?"

I'm excited to say the Keldarin has lead a strike team for the combat balance and come up with some very exciting stuff. I'm working on putting it all into a single article and make it next week's Friday Feature

Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't they seem remarkably similiar ?

So the question of the week is: After 5 months is TH actually going to do what he says THIS time?

I hope he does but i am skeptical.

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I remember the post about each classes' role. It was a long time ago but he DID make it. But it was just generic stuff like "commandos are good with heavy weapons" and "fencers have high defense low offense". Nothing very useful.

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JuntSmoka wrote:

I remember the post about each classes' role. It was a long time ago but he DID make it. But it was just generic stuff like "commandos are good with heavy weapons" and "fencers have high defense low offense". Nothing very useful.

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My memory serves me right, that was much prior to the statment being brought to memory here. The FF to which TH promised the commando community in teh above replicated post never came to fruition and no follow up was made by TH shwoing any sensitivity to the let down of teh community.

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Novock wrote:

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garvin wrote:

The biggest difference is that SOETyrant also said that we should expect CU info to be coming January...That old FF never came because the plug got pulled on TH...Pretty much nobody pulls the plug on SOETyrant (he pulls the plug on others). Of course, as we've painfully learned, nothing is ever guarenteed and we are getting well use to disappointment sad to say, but still, seeing SOETyrant taking a more active role does make me personally feel more optimistic that those doors that kept getting closed on TH (preventing him from sharing) will finally open wider. Remember...TH doesn't decide what he can share when...He's told what he can and can't share when and where and occasionally (seems like often), he get's a "change of plans" order at the last minute and then he (in his role) is the target for all the heat.

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Sad part is he could have simply made a post prior to that next FF and say sry guys I really wanted to get this to you but circumstances changed and I was not able to and won't be able to. But no he did not such thing. Let the FF post with all the commandos and others eager to see what would be said and instead huge let down. Even then no post saying it cut cut, cancelled or delayed just an open ended promises with no follow up communication. You can give him an out on being nixed but surely can't see an out for him not have the respect enough to follow up on it with community. I know that's probably expecting way to much from a man paid to be a Community Relations Manager but hey what can I say.

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And on that, I totally agree...If I had to critique TH on his job I'd say he's great at giving good news, but not the best on giving bad news or revisiting older posts to give updates (and when he does, it occasionally shows up as a sentence or two in a misc reply somewhere).

Before I became a Correspondent I tended to knock TH a lot for his Customer Service, but behind the scenes I see that he does work extremely hard...tends to get told what, where, when, and how more often then he would probably like...and tends to be the "fall guy" when things go bad. I met him at the Summit and over-all he's a great guy who really cares about the game and it's customers, but he's also the guy who doesn't get to make a lot of decissions. He tends to get told one thing, then later find out things changed and maybe he didn't get the memo.

Communication is a huge issue for SOE in my opinion. A lot of the grief I think that they get coming their way is due to an impression of a lack of Communication...And I think we all have that impression because, in the beginning, when SWG first started, Communication was more forthcoming...We've also been burned a lot by "It's coming on this date" and then seeing that date pass with no further communication except maybe "plans changed". The scary thing is, it only takes a moment to go read the CoH, MxOor WoW forums to see that the Dev communication level is MUCH MUCH MUCH greater with SWG then it is with those other games (I'm not commenting on EQ2 because I don't play it and because it's also an SOE game).

Someone made an excellent comment to me the other day (while I was in Atlanta in fact)...A lot of the grief that been going on regarding the CU can be traced to the mentality of "hurry up and wait" and "we have the info but won't say". I feel like the devs should spin off a seperate team for specifically handing the CU communications so that they can be released publically, monitored closely (closer then any postings in the past) and handled efficiently. I also would like to see the Devs unafraid to state publically "We hope to have this set to go around this date, but bear with us if things get slightly delayed due to hardware or software issues"...Anyone who knows or has worked in a programming environment knows that delays happen and can't really be forseen well ahead of time. Also, sometimes a better idea comes along that "Scraps" plans (like what happened with Publish 7)...

Anyway...I don't want to sound like I'm standing bottom kissing TH, but he does tend to be the target for blame when he's just the messanger...we all can agree, though, that the messagecould get out better and clearer...

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garvin wrote:

The scary thing is, it only takes a moment to go read the CoH, MxOor WoW forums to see that the Dev communication level is MUCH MUCH MUCH greater with SWG then it is with those other games (I'm not commenting on EQ2 because I don't play it and because it's also an SOE game).

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Message Edited by Novock on 01-17-2005 12:00 PM

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Novock wrote:

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garvin wrote:

The scary thing is, it only takes a moment to go read the CoH, MxOor WoW forums to see that the Dev communication level is MUCH MUCH MUCH greater with SWG then it is with those other games (I'm not commenting on EQ2 because I don't play it and because it's also an SOE game).

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yea I heard TH make this same claim when he was asked why he didn't follow up on his communication. he basically said "we give you guys more communication then any other game devs" Another words there was no need for him to say more since he was already saying more than any other game.

There are two problems with comparison though. WoW hasn't been promising to fix combat (I know such a small piece of the game why all the frustartion) for nearly 2 years passing by all concerns with "that will be addressed in teh rebalance" "it will be fixed in th revamp" "the CU will address all those concerns" MxO isn't released yet is still in BETA... oh wait so is SWG so I guess that ones fair. CoH is lame I can't believe you even brought that one up. Beside more communication doesn't equal better communication. Most of Tiggs aqnd THs post about some "Tiggs Toon" or about "yea I like pizza". they very rarily say anything pertinent to the game or whats of the greatest improtance to the gaming community.

When you have to point to someone else as being worse to make yourself look better than you're not doing a good job. SOE has never been upfront with the customer base. I believe they new in October of 2004 (if they didn't know back in August of 2004)that the CU won't impact live servers until somewhere around May of 2005. instead of Just saying "The Cu will totally change the game but don't expect it on live till May of 2005"they made it sound like it was in the near future. Obviously they didn't tell what they new on timeframe because if they did accounts would be cancelled left and right, so instead they have choosen the string-out method tokeep subscriptions in place as best as possible, hoping a the excitement from Episode3 and marketign of the Cu will more than replace the lost subscriptions

Lets be honest if this game wasn't STARWARS it would have crashed long ago under such poor decisions, broken comabt and extremely lack luster customer service. they have taken full advantage of the Starwars fan base which makes me that much more unbelieveably disappointed with Lucas Arts for allowing that to happen.

Message Edited by Novock on 01-17-2005 12:00 PM

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I read the WoW and MxO forums frequently...and I see lots of promises made and a lack of delivery...MxO just keeps getting delayed without much reasons why and WoW has a lack of Dev response to anything except pretty much in one forum (and that's about 4 responses a day on average with a quick little sentence saying "yes" or "no"...most often "no")...no details, not explainations..etc...give WoW and MxO time and they'll either learn to be more responsive or their forum systems will petter off to only be used as a Noob guide instead of a "Player To Company" communication medium...

SOE's biggest fault is not that they've had delays...it's that they haven't better explained to us the delays and what they mean...it's also that they haven't kept us in the loop by giving us frequent progress reports (any delay should translate into progress reports until that delayed item is finally released).

I don't honestly believe that SOE has being "just stringing us along"...instead I believe they came up with a plan to "fix" everything at once...they created a project that would address all the balances at the same time and then decided to have that project go live on at a specific time...then the idea grew which delayed the "going live" date...then the idea grew more which lead to further delays...and the idea just keeps growing which keeps causing further delays...What I saw in Austin in August at the Correspondent Summit is at most, half the size of what I've seen/read since the CU forums when live. And still the Devs are coming up with new ideas and plans all the time (they recently decided to include more "balances" then they originally planned"...The problem isn't in them making things work, it's in them not putting a cap on new ideas going in...So the question is, do you want them to cap any new ideas and just get the CU out, or do you want to try and get as much as possible into the CU (knowing that once the CU goes live, Non-Combat professions will get much of the focus for awhile)...This could mean the difference between Commandos getting one more extra thing we've been hoping for with the CU or us waiting for that one extra thing until at least 4 to 6 months post-CU...

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garvin wrote:

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Novock wrote:

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garvin wrote:

The scary thing is, it only takes a moment to go read the CoH, MxOor WoW forums to see that the Dev communication level is MUCH MUCH MUCH greater with SWG then it is with those other games (I'm not commenting on EQ2 because I don't play it and because it's also an SOE game).

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yea I heard TH make this same claim when he was asked why he didn't follow up on his communication. he basically said "we give you guys more communication then any other game devs" Another words there was no need for him to say more since he was already saying more than any other game.

There are two problems with comparison though. WoW hasn't been promising to fix combat (I know such a small piece of the game why all the frustartion) for nearly 2 years passing by all concerns with "that will be addressed in teh rebalance" "it will be fixed in th revamp" "the CU will address all those concerns" MxO isn't released yet is still in BETA... oh wait so is SWG so I guess that ones fair. CoH is lame I can't believe you even brought that one up. Beside more communication doesn't equal better communication. Most of Tiggs aqnd THs post about some "Tiggs Toon" or about "yea I like pizza". they very rarily say anything pertinent to the game or whats of the greatest improtance to the gaming community.

When you have to point to someone else as being worse to make yourself look better than you're not doing a good job. SOE has never been upfront with the customer base. I believe they new in October of 2004 (if they didn't know back in August of 2004)that the CU won't impact live servers until somewhere around May of 2005. instead of Just saying "The Cu will totally change the game but don't expect it on live till May of 2005"they made it sound like it was in the near future. Obviously they didn't tell what they new on timeframe because if they did accounts would be cancelled left and right, so instead they have choosen the string-out method tokeep subscriptions in place as best as possible, hoping a the excitement from Episode3 and marketign of the Cu will more than replace the lost subscriptions

Lets be honest if this game wasn't STARWARS it would have crashed long ago under such poor decisions, broken comabt and extremely lack luster customer service. they have taken full advantage of the Starwars fan base which makes me that much more unbelieveably disappointed with Lucas Arts for allowing that to happen.

Message Edited by Novock on 01-17-2005 12:00 PM

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I read the WoW and MxO forums frequently...and I see lots of promises made and a lack of delivery...MxO just keeps getting delayed without much reasons why and WoW has a lack of Dev response to anything except pretty much in one forum (and that's about 4 responses a day on average with a quick little sentence saying "yes" or "no"...most often "no")...no details, not explainations..etc...give WoW and MxO time and they'll either learn to be more responsive or their forum systems will petter off to only be used as a Noob guide instead of a "Player To Company" communication medium...

SOE's biggest fault is not that they've had delays...it's that they haven't better explained to us the delays and what they mean...it's also that they haven't kept us in the loop by giving us frequent progress reports (any delay should translate into progress reports until that delayed item is finally released).

I don't honestly believe that SOE has being "just stringing us along"...instead I believe they came up with a plan to "fix" everything at once...they created a project that would address all the balances at the same time and then decided to have that project go live on at a specific time...then the idea grew which delayed the "going live" date...then the idea grew more which lead to further delays...and the idea just keeps growing which keeps causing further delays...What I saw in Austin in August at the Correspondent Summit is at most, half the size of what I've seen/read since the CU forums when live. And still the Devs are coming up with new ideas and plans all the time (they recently decided to include more "balances" then they originally planned"...The problem isn't in them making things work, it's in them not putting a cap on new ideas going in...So the question is, do you want them to cap any new ideas and just get the CU out, or do you want to try and get as much as possible into the CU (knowing that once the CU goes live, Non-Combat professions will get much of the focus for awhile)...This could mean the difference between Commandos getting one more extra thing we've been hoping for with the CU or us waiting for that one extra thing until at least 4 to 6 months post-CU...

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Don't place a choice before me when I'm not priviledged enough to see what I'm choosing. It only amplifies how in the dark we are and how little say we have in a system that suppose to be "worth all the delays and waits". Maybe If I seen it myself I might agree with ya but I haven't nor will I get to see it until its past time where i or so many who are shut outcan make any real impact on it. By the time we see it in BETA it will be in a bug testing phase and if we had a corsesystem idea or change we will be completetly out of luck.

BTW yes I would rather cap it if its going to be indefinite time. Atleast then we can play the game and wait for some changes rather than not be able to play the game (I mean GCW) and still be waiting for allthe changes.

And personally on the comparison, I would rather my customers be happy with me by what I do and do for them rather than try to make them happy by pointing out how bad another company is. I still believe poor Dev communication on WoW CoH or any other game or service doesn't excuse or make btter bad communication in SWG. This game is Starwars and you better believe people are going to be vocal and expecting when it comes to Starwars.

Message Edited by Novock on 01-17-2005 12:43 PM

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Novock wrote:

Don't place a choice before me when I'm not priviledged enough to see what I'm choosing. It only amplifies how in the dark we are and how little say we have in a system that suppose to be "worth all the delays and waits". Maybe If I seen it myself I might agree with ya but I haven't nor will I get to see it until its past time where i or so many who are shut outcan make any real impact on it. By the time we see it in BETA it will be in a bug testing phase and if we had a corsesystem idea or change we will be completetly out of luck.

BTW yes I would rather cap it if its going to be indefinite time. Atleast then we can play the game and wait for some changes rather than not be able to play the game (I mean GCW) and still be waiting for allthe changes.

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I agree with you on the "cap" with one exception...and you know I hate not being able to share details, but honestly, the Commando changes currently planned within the CU are much of the things we've been asking and waiting for...There are even a few surprises that we never thought of asking for...BUT, there is one detail that I and our Sandbox testers are trying to iron out BEFORE testing begins...It's likely not a make or break deal, but something I'd like to see addressed even at the cost of further delays...right now it looks like the Devs want to start up testing before working on this detail, but I'd rather push for it being addressed before.

It's my hope that we've made enough of a stink about this "detail" on the CU forums that part of this delay (besides likely being hardware related) is due to them "fixing it" before testing begins (or at the very least, have the fix ready when we prove we need the fix).

I hate being Cryptic...I have not being able to share...and that's a main reason that pretty much there isn't a day that goes by that I don't keep poking the Devs to release more info or change their communication strategy...