Commando Archive

I just saw comments again in the thread "Challenge to Commando's" and also in the "Give me one valid argument why 2.5 mele damage needs to be in PvE " that talk about the same, but just to be clear here - I don't want to hear crap from others telling me that I should be switching back to a marksman level weapon and use marksman level skills to do my fighting.

As the original poster in the "Give me one valid...." thread said -- I didn't just spend 3 months+ working my tail off to get through the pre-reqs and get into my "elite" level skill tree to find my tools there got ruined in one week thanks to the devs moving our weapons from melee class (where they shouldn't have been) to ranged class (where they probably should be, but probably should be considered "short range" -- actually they should be in their own "heavy weapons" category, but the devs don't seem to get that concept) and having that change toss in a nasty penalty on top of it.

I'll say it here now - the Kryat tissue weapons and other uber weaponry that can be used by non-heavy weapon wielders will get nerfed. You can see it coming. There will be screams that pistoleers are too tough. Nerfed. Rifleman are too tough. Nerfed. BH too tough. Nerfed.

The nerfing has to stop.

The weapons that a master marksman has available should be weaker than anything that an elite class has available. There's a reason that Master Marksman is a novice level/lower level tree. It's not meant for long term use, and those that are suggesting that the tactics should still be used later are full of it.

You don't see BHs running around using CDEFs to kill their marks, nor should you. You don't see Pistoleers running around using non-soupedup weaponry, nor should you.

There's a reason that you get rewarded with new weapon certs, and why you start using those weapons - they are more powerful, and should be. It's the reward you get for working through lower level skills. You get to use better stuff, and it should do more damage.

But, to get back on point - for all of you folks that want to suggest fixes to the Commando - thanks for your advice, but telling someone that is supposed to be fighting up close to use piddly weapons and lower level attacks is the equivalent of us telling you to get your butts out on the battlefield without armor and wielding only the original CDEF pistol you got in the game tutorial. Have fun killing the crap that just hangs outside of town, and enjoy the 2 points of combat skill xp it rewards you with.

Suggesting that we switch to the Launcher Pistol is fine, if you don't mind the graphic lag that is caused by using the weapon up close (not to mention the complete inability to see anything on your screen through the smoke and explosions), but again, you're suggesting that we should switch to ranged attacks, when we are supposed to be short ranged fighters.

I don't think anyone here has a problem seeing brawlers and TKA players get more powerful, but we all have serious issues being told to just accept the penalty and move on.

As someone else also said on these forums, and in movies and elsewhere - don't bring a melee weapon to a firefight. Any idiot that tried to melee awell armed commando would find themselves dead in one hit. If they came with several friends, well, that's what the cone damage simulates.

I don't disagree with your concept here, but I would like to add some. You are correct in saying that an elite profession should be "elite" to the point that it should not have to rely on other professions just to stay alive in normal PvE. However part of our elite profession is the marksman profession, so I feel that the specials that we received there should be considered part of our "elite" profession. In other words, our ability to use supression fire and warning shot are still invaluable tools to our profession for survivability in the wilds.

I definately agree, as I am sure many do, that elite cert weapons should be significantly more powerful than the starter professions. IE fwg5 pistols should not be preferred over dx2's, scatters,or LP's, dlt20a's and laser rifles should not be preferred over t-21's, etc.

All that said, PvP is a different story all together, creating it's own problems with weapons, certs, specials, etc, and I don't even know where to begin with that. And the problem with your last statement about a TKM not being able to survive vs a master in ranged weaponry, while possibly realistic, gives absolutely nothing for melee classes to do in PvP (or faction missions for that matter). That leads to 4 useless classes in SWG unfortunately and would pretty much suck.

Bikebum, with all due respect, I have to disagree with you. Commando is the "ONLY" profession that has been forced to fall back on it's lower skills in order to be viable to a lesser degree. I agree with the original poster completely. All other combat classes have increased specials that greatly enhance their abilities in combat. Even non-combat professions are granted greater "USEABLE" abilities as they progress up through their elite trees. However, Commando has been forced by the "STEALTH NERF" of last great patch to regress in it's abilities.

Secondly, Everyone either forgets or chooses no to aknowledge the fact of our delays that was intentionaly placed their for balance. I will repeat this for the millionth (sp) time. All anybody wants to discuss is our damage and ignore all the other aspects of the commando. We have to take 9-12 sec. delay before any shots when using the HW. I have just recently discovered that I am getting the same delay with my "MARKSMAN" specials as well. Now, as stated before, after using these specials @ 16m or less, which btw is melee range, read it melee range, I can NOT do anything until the timer ends and am under the melee penalty that entire time. I can change weapons go unarmed (usless at 60 damage per hit) and still experience the penalty for the duration of the timer. Yes, I have tested this personally.

I also agree that this NERFING has got to stop. SOE started a snow ball with the first Nerf that is just growing in size. The more they Nerf to balance the more imbalance is being created. What they should have done and should revert to is left it alone and told players to learn to play within their respected professions. I do not believe that balance is attainable within the structure of this game. Balance within SWG is basically an ideal within a perfect world. With the professions and this game structure and the manner in which it was intended to be played each profession excells on it's own merits. I don't believe even in the PvP world, which I don't play, balance is near impossible and each time a class is "NERFED" or "STEALTH NERFED" another imbalance occurs. It's similar to you driving your car and if your a good, safe driver you notice that everybody is in a hurry to be in the lead when in fact you can never be in the lead because there will always be someone in front of you. The same applies here. One class will always be better than another and people will always scream "NERF" the class on top. SOE needs to put a stop to the Merry go Round or it will never stop.

First 2 points I won't argue with. Your point is taken and I don't share it exactly, but I don't totally disagree for that matter.

The last part I have tested and logged many times. The 2.5x modifier does not carry over during the special duration if you switch immediately. You can see my short demonstration here:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=commando&message.id=28383

The long logs here (different test):

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=commando&message.id=28644

Between the 2 posts, there are hundreds of hits, several of which were after FT specials, and only when I was slow switching or intentionally did I actually take the 2.5x modifier.

One thing, if you don't use warning shot because you feel you shouldn't have to step down to Marksman skills, which is a parent profession and skills and the basis of Commando, then, not saying that you do, but don't complain about not standing a chance, it's your fault for being stubborn.

And you are wrong, most combat professions (Except melee) have very effective use for warning shot, that and Overcharge are the only skills"I" personally find still useful in Commando and am not ashamed to use it when the time calls.When things get close, don't be stubborn, use the skills you were born from. It will save alot of complaining and it will clearalot ofthe BS stories people put out there. IE: "Commando's nerfed to hell! Just got incapped by Chuba", "We don't stand a chance against-Insert any lowe level creature-anymore" "Commandos useless in PvE" <---I take offense to that one that I've seen somewhere, I am not useless in PvE, hell im very sufficient in PvE I got flame 4 in 4 days. Flame 2 first day, flame 3 secondday, Flame 4 fourth day. Not grinding on "UberToxicGnort Battlelords-Of-Death" either.

I agree about the weapons though, you shouldn't have to use a Marksman weapon as your primary weapon in an elite profession, which I never catch myself doing and don't know who's suggesting that =0P.

Read more posts bro, everyone is suggesting that.Not sure about your logs, the 2.5x does stay in place, at least for me, even with a weapon switch.It doesnt go away until the cool down period after special is done, this has been reported by nearly everyone in the commando community.

Yes, I use warning shot, and I have suppression fire on my toolbar as well, unfortunately none of our marksman training carries over to the commando tree, leaving us poorly inaccurate with the LP, and having to use whatever the best marksman certed pistol is on our particular servers, yes warning shot is great, no we should not have to rely on inferior weaponry.

Face it, not a single person that does or has played this game, wanted to just be a master marksman.That alone speaks volumes.It's crap, straight up, the sad fact is being a commando has almost NO advantage over being just a master marksman, ESPECIALLY when weighed against the penalties.

Sorry, there is no argument for a class being rendered impotent, both in weaponry AND in combat efficiency, this change defies all logic as well as any and all resemblences of "balance" or "fairness". As stated previously, these two concepts are nearly impossible to achieve, as there will always be a large groups of new players that get killed by more experienced or better players, and they will cry nerf.

If you read through most of the posts by people who think this changge is needed, and is the best thing to ever happen, (and if you are a master commando and have been for a while now) you will soon realize that these people know nearly nothing about the commando class nor do they even seem to read the posts made by people who play the class.They dont care about what penalties were already in place, and they dont care about balance, they got one shot killed once in PvP and that was all it took for them to hate all commandos and post they need to be nerfed.

Personally I thinks its better to find the weakness of a class and exploit it rather than cry for nerfs, unfortunately the majority of the SWG community finds it easier the other way around.The second they see 8k damage done, its over.Delays dont matter to them, accuracy doesnt matter to them, the whole rest of the weapons and class dont matter to them.They simply see it as "He does 8k damage and I only do 1k or 2k!!" True it's a childish mentality, maybe even "penisenvy" but it doesnt change the fact that in their ignorance they miss the fact that with all other penalties in place, they actually out damage that 8k quite easily.

And its more likely 4k

The nerfing most definately needs to stop, because I'm a video game FREAK, and if I'm considering cancelling my account, something is SERIOUSLY wrong, because I can tolerate quite a bit when it comes to gaming.

"Not sure about your logs, the 2.5x does stay in place, at least for me, even with a weapon switch.It doesnt go away until the cool down period after special is done..."

Can you show numbers to back this up Nowakai?

Cause Bikebum has the logs on his side. If you can't prove otherwise, don't post that you "know" otherwise.

Just because people think it works a certin way does not mean that it does. Show the proof.

Like Bobby Sox says, I have a long list of logs showing that switching does work. I also have reams more logs showing the same thing since I have been logging this problem for nearly a week. I will tell you that if I get on my slower computer, I have trouble switching before I take the first hit at the 2.5x modifier. I can do it, but not as consistantly as on my faster computer. Not that there is a huge difference in the computers though, slow = 1.4 Ghz Athlon, fast = 1.7 Ghz Athlon, both set up exactly the same (512M ram, 128M vid cards, cable connection, etc).

Also, just because I have a method of skirting around the 2.5x modifier does not mean I feel it should stay. Quite the contrary, I wish it were reduced. In fact I feel that modifiers based upon weapon equipped, as long as you are certified with it, should be eliminated for all classes. My opinion is that the only negative defensive modifiers should be placed on the stance of the target.

The bad new is that the Devs don't agree, and state that the 2.5x modifier, while it may get tweaked down slightly, will not go away.

Yeah I saw they said that, as a result I wont be playing my commando any time soon.

Not sure about the proof, to be honest I dont know how to get the logs here other than to copy them by pen and post them here, my proof is that mobs that never stood a chance before now kill me easily though 50% comp and an mk3.

If someone is willing to post the process of gettin/postin the logs I'll start gathering info, I'm sure it's insanely easy and I probably look like a dumbass now, I've just never done it.

Dont know if these matter for this, my system spec are:

Abit IS-7 Motherboard gig/LAN i865 chipset, lotsa goodies.

1024MB Kingston PC3200 HyperX RAM

P4 2.6Ghz @ 2.8Ghz

128 Radeon 9800 AGP

120GB WD HD 7200RPM

256K Cable conn/modem

So, there's what I'm running, let me know what differences are and how to get a clean combat log if you would, I'm sure it's as you say if you already have logs, but this will come in handy many times in the future I'm sure, thanks guys

Well, you've got 2x the ram I do and slightly more horsepower as far as CPU than I do, so your latency should not be a problem. As far as doing a log, all you have to do is turn "/log on" and it will go to a file in your \StarWarsGalaxies\profiles\<account name>\<server name>\<character name>_chatlog.txt

Then all you have to do is open the file in notebook, copy, and paste into a post if you want. Just remember that posts are limited to 2000 (or 20000, dont remember) characters, so you might have to chop it up in the replies. Also, what are you fighting that is killing you with composite and a shield? When you have your armor on, do you also equip a backpack, belt, or other non-armor wearable? Do you keep your FT equipped through the whole special cooldown? Do you use pets or not?

The reason I ask is that many people have responded that they have tried what I have done, and confirmed that it worked for them too. Heck the only time I have gotten incapped in PvE post-patch is when I tossed a grenade at a mob and they ran right next to me when it went off (3000 action damage). Just happened this evening.... pissed me off to no end.

I don't get hit with the 2.5X modifier either if I switch out my weapons after I land the special. All that I have to deal with is getting hit by the mob for several seconds if one of my group member's pets has issues keeping aggro.

I don't mind the 2.5X modifer much. Commandos (as much as no one wants to admit it) reallyis a support class. Sure, the way the class is set up and the images of a "commando" don't exactly coincide, but that's our problem, not SOE's. Near as I can see, SOE thinks Commandos should hit for huge ammounts of damage from far away while having no ability to dodge and take extra damage if the MOB runs in. I know that's not how it is current, but that's how I think SOE see's us and where they plan to take us.

Personally, I would like my acid rifle to have a penalty to hit at 0m instead of a +0, and a bonus to hit at 64m instead of a +0. Treat the acid rifle like a friggin rifle with the 2.5X modifier on it. I do like what they did with the FT and the lengthy deley on the specials, however, it is a bit rediculous that it's treated as a rifle when we need to be so close to hit. Make the FT a "pistol" instead of a "rifle" and make it have a max range of 45m or so, though keeping the specials to within 15m.