Commando Archive
Thread: My Top 5 for the Dev(s) responsible for Commando....
Page 1 of 3
RankorCity
Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:47 pm
#1
1. What is our ROLE in the postCU Star Wars Galaxies?
According to the CU release notes Commando, was 5 offense, 3 defense, 1 crowd control. Due to the low damage, slow speed, and high SAC costs of our weapons (all in comparison with other nuker professions - i.e. Swordsman and Rifleman), Commando falls short of attaining a "5" rating,even WITH a working AoE, the 100/40 damage ratio on our AoE weapons is/woud beless than (signifcantly so) other professions AoE attacks. Also, our constant AoE indicates that we would be crowd control - in the fact that it IS AoE, and the damage is just barely significant enough to soften up our opponents.The high SAC cost and slow speed of our weapons could be justified if they were more powerful than other respective CL weapons, AND did 100/100 splash damage.
2. If our ROLE has changed from the release of the CU Docs, what is it? And can we please get an explanation as to WHY it changed?
Its been said that our description set forth by the CU docs has changed, and that we are now a utility / toolbox profession. Other professions can "shop" our profession for added speed, accuracy, and defenses, along with "state" attack weapons. However, the same mod bonuses and states can be found in other professions for a greater return, and with a smaller investment. Not only do they get added mods, they get additional damage dealing attacks, and many AoE attacks that outshine Commando by a great deal. They get 100/100 damage, or state attacks with damage modifiers that can be applied to higher damaging weapons. As example - A Rocket Launcher is a ranged KD. However a ranged KD can be found from Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, and Carbineer (I believe) that can be used with an 900-1100 damage weapon - whereas the Rocket Launcher is in the 400 range. And a MUCH higher SAC cost. Not only are we hampered by low damage, we are hit with high SAC costs. The 65 meter range of the Rocket Launcher IS nice, but the majority of fighting takes place MUCH closer than that. It in incredibly hard to stay that far away.
3. Do you consider our weapons to be balanced against what is available to other professions, specifically nukers (rifles/swords)? If so, why?
Our Heavy Weapons are capped at 100 SAC, and 1148 damage , whereas Rifles are capped at approx 85 SAC and 1184 damage. And the majority of rifles are faster than ours. A rifleman using Carbineer or Pistoleer AoE attacks outdamages the Commando and its "innate" AoE by a wide margin. And lesser penalties (lower SAC). Even a Carbineer or Pistoleer - which ARENT classified as nukers - outdamage the Commando when using their profession specific AoE attacks. Which leads me to number 4....
4. Our weapons have INSANE resource/time requirements in comparison to other weapons. Will this be attended to during the crafting revamp?
Because of this, Weaponsmiths are reluctant to stock Commando weapons. Not only are there very few "real" Commandos - excludingplayers that use the grenades for Force Sensitive experience grinding - the resource and time requirements make them undesirable to produce, thus they collect dust in their vendors if they are never sold. This gives the Weaponsmith a couple good reasons NOT to stock them. A change in schematic requirements would go along way in helping Commandos be better outfitted, and give a reason for Weaponsmiths to keep a stock of them, even for a small niche of players.
5. If our weapons ARE our specials (in the form of various state attack such as blind, knockdown, or stun), do you agree or disagree that this is a significant disadvantage for Commandos?
Other professions have specials that enable them to hit their opponent with multiple states WITHOUT switching weapons. In order to apply these states, we would have to equip a Rocket Launcher for a ranged KD, then switch to another weapon to apply a blind, then switch to ANOTHER weapon to apply a stun. We would do this to "soften" our opponent(s) up, and make them more vulnerable to other more damaging attacks. Other professions can do this with ONE weapon, that the majority of the time has a HIGHER damage output with LESS penalties (SAC cost). IMHO, this puts the Commando at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage in terms of time, damage done, and penalty (high SAC cost).
Message Edited by RankorCity on 07-30-2005 03:17 PM
StarNick
Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:35 pm
#2
Carbineer's Charge Shot is a KD. Also, the SAC for weapons are:
65 - Pistols
72 - Carbines
82 - Rifles
100 - Heavy Weapons
I personally find it odd when theres a 7 SAC gap, then a 10...then all of a sudden a huge 18 gap between the various classes.
Rifles can be more damaging, less SAC...and have the most powerful ranged attacks? They're also faster I may add, and from my own experience in weaponsmithing, its far easier making a 980 max damage advanced laser rifle with 82 SAC than a Plasma Flamethrower with 948 max damage and 100 SAC.
Maybe AoE could make up...but what about against a single target? Our non-AoE weapons have no "bonus" to describe up to make up for damage (as our AoE weapons do), so the justification that we have AoE cannot be the sole justification for no specials. If AoE was, then wouldn't a Carbineer-Commando template be unbalancing as well? That may or may not be the case, but if it is...we're in a position where theres no middle ground between being overpowered and underpowered.
Just a bit of my own verbatim there. I think Rankor brings up some very good points that have yet to be addressed, and if a developer could spend even the smallest of time to answer them...we'd all be very appreciative
65 - Pistols
72 - Carbines
82 - Rifles
100 - Heavy Weapons
I personally find it odd when theres a 7 SAC gap, then a 10...then all of a sudden a huge 18 gap between the various classes.
Rifles can be more damaging, less SAC...and have the most powerful ranged attacks? They're also faster I may add, and from my own experience in weaponsmithing, its far easier making a 980 max damage advanced laser rifle with 82 SAC than a Plasma Flamethrower with 948 max damage and 100 SAC.
Maybe AoE could make up...but what about against a single target? Our non-AoE weapons have no "bonus" to describe up to make up for damage (as our AoE weapons do), so the justification that we have AoE cannot be the sole justification for no specials. If AoE was, then wouldn't a Carbineer-Commando template be unbalancing as well? That may or may not be the case, but if it is...we're in a position where theres no middle ground between being overpowered and underpowered.
Just a bit of my own verbatim there. I think Rankor brings up some very good points that have yet to be addressed, and if a developer could spend even the smallest of time to answer them...we'd all be very appreciative
Message Edited by StarNick on 07-29-2005 12:37 AM
TK-132
Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:56 pm
#3
Couldn't have said it better.
*Tapes Mouth Shut*
*Tapes Mouth Shut*
Message Edited by TK-132 on 07-28-2005 10:02 PM
RankorCity
Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:43 am
#4
Hoorah!
My first sticky!
Lets keep all our fingers and toes crossed for a red letter response...
Message Edited by RankorCity on 07-29-2005 01:44 PM
wetti
Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:01 pm
#5
it seems like the devs focus more on things they got right then the things they broke... so instead of fixing us... they will just try to get everyone to go bounty hunter or jedi....
kaosdivine
Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:59 pm
#7
StarNick wrote: the SAC for weapons are:
73 - Carbines
Fixed
Commando is at the moment more like: 1 in offence, 3 in defence and 5 in crowd control. At least for Commando/Carbineer templates using carbine specials with an ASL or PF on crowds in PvP. I deal almost no damage but can "control" alot of people with nasty states like KD/Snare/Root and so on. I get the impression that this is the new role of a Commando nowadays - support not in heavy damage but in crowd control.
Would indeed be nice to get some answers to RankorCity's questions.
*salute*
Kers
Kesslan
Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:05 pm
#8
Yeah. I mean we also keep being told 'oh well the devs dont have the -time- to answer your questions'. Ermm.. then why the hell do some of them (Such as Blixey) not only occasionally post. But also then all on their own. Go and tweek things like the BH NPC bounties.
I swear. We should get that guy to try out MCommando for a day.
RankorCity
Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:10 pm
#9
Kesslan wrote:
Yeah. I mean we also keep being told 'oh well the devs dont have the -time- to answer your questions'. Ermm.. then why the hell do some of them (Such as Blixey) not only occasionally post. But also then all on their own. Go and tweek things like the BH NPC bounties.
I swear. We should get that guy to try out MCommando for a day.
Blix takes it upon himself to work on BH after hours. We dont have someone on the dev side with his passion for our profession, his dedication. He LOVES Bounty Hunter. And it shows with the attention they have been getting the last couple of months.
As an aside, the current incarnation of Commando IS Blixtevs idea, from what I understand.
So, if you like what Commando is, you dont want him assigned to us.
Message Edited by RankorCity on 08-01-2005 10:12 PM
TK-132
Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:12 pm
#10
Well when we had Helios that was great. However I don't think he is around anymore. It's sad to lose folks like Tyrant and Helios, cause when they were around talking to us I was sure things were going to be great. But now that their gone and whatever Devs work us, just really don't seem to care. I think it's obivious by the fact that they couldn't even take time yet to answer these questions.
This is lousy Communication. You lose folks when you don't talk. If you can't spare 10 minutes, cause really that's how long it would take to answer this, something is rally wrong.
You can't ignore the Community you have to talk with us. Granted we can be childish, though the Commando Community is as civil as they come, yet we are ignored when we should be the easiest to talk since you aren't dealing with the immature folks that you find else where. Ok I might the exception sionce I pretty much number 1 whiney Commando, but it's really discouraging when we ourselves put in our own time in to how to better Commando, basically doing the job we already pay for and it is ignored? Why?
Please, please, please talk with us. You can't fix this game if you just read the forums. You need to discuss, explain, and learn things on these forums with the Community if were going to get any where. I don't know how you expect to keep people happy and paying if you aren't working with them to make the game they want. But that measn everybody. Not just Jedi, not just BHs. I'm talking Rangers, Squad Leaders, Entertainers, and Commandos us plus everyone else.
Look if you think you don't need to come here I pitty you. Your Marketers do not know all. If you think that if all you have to do is Advertise and work on Jedi in this game and everything will be fine your terribly wrong. Now I don't have statistics, but I'm willing to bet you lose more people from those fed up with their Profession being useless or ignored, and well other things like Jedi dominating all Combat. Maybe you guys are lucky and get lots of New Players. But if you can't keep your Veterans happy then this game is going to go under. Why because the people that first picked up this game were those really interested, those of us who thought this would be the greatest Star Wars game of all time. I've been playing since July 2003, but as time goes on I see less and less folks. Your lucky if you can even find someone from Beta Posting on these Forums, much less playing the game. Maybe that should come as a hint to you.
Look stop caving into only the Jedi and other immature Communities who simply post a lot. They don't represent the majority of the Community, they just happen to be the loudest and greedy self centered people. And those types of people don't make up a very good Community as many tend to be greifers, exploiters, and all the other kind of sad things that don't welcome nor help the Community. Yet you give into these people?
Whatever. Regardless of my beliefs it is your job Devs responsible in anything to do with Commandos to respond and answer our questions. We do not pay you to be left unknown in the dark. We deserve to know what goes on. Look I don't mid if we don't get fixed right away, but we want to know why. We want to know what's happening in the futrue for Commando. Yes thing change for good and bad, but we can deal with that. We already have. Though it's mostly bad. Look if your not saying anything cause you guys are afraid to lose people because you really aren't doing anything to fix Commando that is terribly wrong.
You are lying and cheating us, cause we assume that if do not say anything you must be so busy fixing Commando.
And if that's what you are doing that's pretty much what I'm going to assume SOE in general does. And if so I believe I will spread the word. Perhaps even try to inform George Lucas and Lucas Arts of such.
Please prove me wrong. Most of the time I'm just a paranoid pessimist, and to be honest I really hope I'm not right about anything I've just said.
It's been several days, just please talk to us.
This is lousy Communication. You lose folks when you don't talk. If you can't spare 10 minutes, cause really that's how long it would take to answer this, something is rally wrong.
You can't ignore the Community you have to talk with us. Granted we can be childish, though the Commando Community is as civil as they come, yet we are ignored when we should be the easiest to talk since you aren't dealing with the immature folks that you find else where. Ok I might the exception sionce I pretty much number 1 whiney Commando, but it's really discouraging when we ourselves put in our own time in to how to better Commando, basically doing the job we already pay for and it is ignored? Why?
Please, please, please talk with us. You can't fix this game if you just read the forums. You need to discuss, explain, and learn things on these forums with the Community if were going to get any where. I don't know how you expect to keep people happy and paying if you aren't working with them to make the game they want. But that measn everybody. Not just Jedi, not just BHs. I'm talking Rangers, Squad Leaders, Entertainers, and Commandos us plus everyone else.
Look if you think you don't need to come here I pitty you. Your Marketers do not know all. If you think that if all you have to do is Advertise and work on Jedi in this game and everything will be fine your terribly wrong. Now I don't have statistics, but I'm willing to bet you lose more people from those fed up with their Profession being useless or ignored, and well other things like Jedi dominating all Combat. Maybe you guys are lucky and get lots of New Players. But if you can't keep your Veterans happy then this game is going to go under. Why because the people that first picked up this game were those really interested, those of us who thought this would be the greatest Star Wars game of all time. I've been playing since July 2003, but as time goes on I see less and less folks. Your lucky if you can even find someone from Beta Posting on these Forums, much less playing the game. Maybe that should come as a hint to you.
Look stop caving into only the Jedi and other immature Communities who simply post a lot. They don't represent the majority of the Community, they just happen to be the loudest and greedy self centered people. And those types of people don't make up a very good Community as many tend to be greifers, exploiters, and all the other kind of sad things that don't welcome nor help the Community. Yet you give into these people?
Whatever. Regardless of my beliefs it is your job Devs responsible in anything to do with Commandos to respond and answer our questions. We do not pay you to be left unknown in the dark. We deserve to know what goes on. Look I don't mid if we don't get fixed right away, but we want to know why. We want to know what's happening in the futrue for Commando. Yes thing change for good and bad, but we can deal with that. We already have. Though it's mostly bad. Look if your not saying anything cause you guys are afraid to lose people because you really aren't doing anything to fix Commando that is terribly wrong.
You are lying and cheating us, cause we assume that if do not say anything you must be so busy fixing Commando.
And if that's what you are doing that's pretty much what I'm going to assume SOE in general does. And if so I believe I will spread the word. Perhaps even try to inform George Lucas and Lucas Arts of such.
Please prove me wrong. Most of the time I'm just a paranoid pessimist, and to be honest I really hope I'm not right about anything I've just said.
It's been several days, just please talk to us.
Kaytin
Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:15 am
#11
It's very true.A comment on our current "official" status would be nice. Please don't let us fall through the cracks.
RankorCity
Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:15 pm
#12
Kind of an update:
Over a 10 daysago, I sent Tiggs a PM basically BEGGING for someone to come in and communicate with us about our profession...She responded (surprisingly enough), said she would look into the boards and check if anything was coming up for Commando and she would see what she could do to get us some sort of dialogue goinghere IF anything was due for us.
*crickets*
Thus far, I havent received a response back (nor have we received any dialogue from the devs here). I know she went on vacation last week, and is kind of back (she's posting again), but it reeks of the same level of inattention we have received for the last year and a half, except when Helios was posting here pretty regularly during CU Beta v1.0 (current version is v2.0 on the live servers, IMHO), or TH during our numerous nerfs waaaaay preCU...
I'm trying to keep my chin up, but it gets harder and harder everyday....I actually SERIOUSLY contemplated dropping Commando today, and found myself thinking I would rather just cancel that account. I was determined to not let them kill my Commando spirit, but for some reason today, it took a pretty good hit.
I realize they have some pretty hefty problems to work out right now, but I would think someone could come in here, lay down the law (i.e. - WHAT IS COMMANDO?) for 10 minutes, then follow their MO of leaving us alone for another year....
You can only bang your head against the wall for so long until brain damage sets in....
Message Edited by RankorCity on 08-07-2005 12:17 AM
Joshuatree
Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:20 am
#13
Bate is one of my best friends in game, and I agree everything written here.
I have done 31 professions to get my Jedi, and the one I most enjoyed was Commando. It was the only one I did not need agroup to pull missions, I basically went to Yavin, and burned everything I see walking from one side to the other. I had awesome fun. And when I mastered it, I felt myself bad, it only happened with swordsman.
I remember one of my commando friends in game, the first one I saw, with 40% Composite armor ( which was the best at that time ), killing everyone in sight.
I wish devs had some common sense. Basically, common sense tells us that a profession can not be both AOE user and a nuker. It simply doesn't fit. If you give Commando AOE weapons, you can not give them high damage. Because then, they would be insanely powerful. Now, because of that, SOE refuses to fix commando and chooses to ignore them.
I always said, you can not let a Commando do areaconcussion shot or area last ditch. But the weird thing is, how can ANY DEVELOPER not think this before giving commando all those skill trees. Now they know it, but they don't fix it, intentionally. Because they can't. If they fix AOE, a Commando / Smuggler will be God. Now they are in a trap. They need to re-write Commando skills.
I am really sorry, but they choose to ignore you guys. And that makes me sad, because I think Flamethrower is equally cool as the Lightsaber imo.
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