Commando Archive

Great post, lets also highlight the fact that the AI likes toKITE us commandosnow that we arent observed as melee anymore.

This means to keep within 16m to use specials we now have to (a) STAND and(b) RUN.

Both of these drastically reduce our accuracy and overall effectiveness in combat.

Well my 2 cents as follows. Holo, you are correct about what the perception was and what the reality is. I agree mostly with our correspondent but with some caveats. First I don't think that the Flamer should get a 2.5x bonus against rifle users. It got this bonus because it was mis-classified as a melee weapon. It does decent damage on it's own, it doesn't need to do increased damage vs rifles.

Personally I'd like to see something along the lines of what someone else here posted. The flamer should have good specials and have decent accuracy in the <16m range. The flamer should have a 2.5x bonus against rifle users, and it should not incur a 2.5x penalty against melee creatures. It's a close ranged weapon and the balance is the huge delay after a special is used. The flamer should be AP 1 or 2 as well.

The Acid rifle, on the other hand, should be treated like a rifle. It should not just be an acid version of the flamer. I think that the Acid rifle should be able to use rifle specials like the launcher uses pistol specials as well as have it's own specials. The acid rifle should do lower damage on average than the flamer, but be a longer ranged weapon. The specials should do big front loaded damage at medium to long range, but also incur the long delay that the flamer specials do. The HAR should not get a 2.5x bonus against rifle users either, but it should incur a 2.5x melee penalty as it's a longer ranged rifle weapon. It'd be nice to have the graphics updated on it so it doesn't seem like we're firing a paintball gun when we use it. The HAR should also have AP 1 to 2. These are both considered "heavy" weapons and thus should have an armor piercing value that reflects it.

I think that this would work to add good variation to our weapon mix as well as allow us to build on pre-requisite skills that we gained in getting to commando. As it stands right now there isn't any difference between the HAR and the flamer other than the graphics and the damage type acid vs heat.

I totally Agree with MasterSynn here on the situation. I too made commando back in the day before we were even worth being, and i have seen vindication and once again utter defeat. I heard the rumors and though only that people were just sad about getting ravaged in PvP or against a MOB.

I just got done with a quickhunt with my Greater Sludge Pantherforanormal Bol and got wiped out in 2 hits (which was lke 4 seconds). Each sucessive hit scored around 450 dmg, quickly incapping me. After having this occur 3 times, along with being slain on the third time i was disgusted. I wholly agree that we do do some devastating dmg in PvP which ends up being what can only be considered Lame one hit kills, but we are totally going overboard with th balance.... like putting a cast on a scratched knee, this is over kill.

I signed off immedately after this and am now taking a long look at my character and deciding wheather or not I should remain a commando or not. Being forced to close with a MOB only to have it run up and hit me twice and incap me is pretty drastic, but maybe i should be hunting chuba at this point, then again i hear those are pretty vicious now too.

Side note: Id rather have a reduction in the DMG we do to others than an increase in theDMG they do to us..

Sheesh....could they have screwed up any worse? We shoulda saw this coming..... Half the PvP players in the game are screaming to nerf us, and instead of doing the right thing (removing the rifleman/melee damage and lowering DoT wounds) they totally screw us. How can we be brawlers (not to mention unarmed specialist) and yet take extra damage to melee? I hope your foaming at the mouth MasterSynn...I expect big things from you concerning this problem. Not only do they need to remove this nerf ASAP...demand that we get some added bonus against melee (natural resistance or enc redurction for armor). ATM most of us are CH (the ones that can actually kill stuff anyway)....and I for one don't want to HAVE to be one anymore.

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I'm not even going to get into the accuracy nerf and slower firing cycle...I might break my keyboard ARG!

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Spankling wrote:

How can we be brawlers (not to mention unarmed specialist) and yet take extra damage to melee?

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I'm so friggin pissed at the moment, I was having so much fun not needing a creature to solo white con mobs occasionally i could take a yellow too. Now, a **edit** cannibal dewback can kill me in 2 hits. And, if you crouch for better accuracy, maybe 1.

Well, looks like i need to bring that cowardly gurreck back out for more PetWars Episode III: The Commando Nerf.

Btw why the hell do rifleman get a damage multiplier?

Balance is reached when everyone (who whines) wants everything nerfed. (i.e. the swordsman want pikeman nerfed, the pistoleers want fencers nerfed, The BHs want commando nerfed, The commandos want riflemen nerfed, etc...) As it stodd a few days ago before a lameass patch, people wanted Commandos, Pistoleers, and BHs (pistol and LLC line) all nerfed, (ya know professions people were happy with). Now meelers (not as bad since they got a range inrease i beleive) and rifleman, Carbineers, BHs(carbine and LLC lines) and Commandos all seem broken now.

LOL i forgot the best class in the game for PVE! Creature handler!

and stop balancing the **edit** game for PVP! I like friggin PVE just fine atm.

For those of you asking where I've been (Gronchar &Tanhauser), I've explained before. I only post here when I have something worthwhile to say. That doesn't mean I don't read your posts or that I'm not working on you behalf. I post in the commando forum when I have information to pass on. Getting YOUR information to the DEVs requires me posting in the Correspondent Discussion forum and spending time on Test Center trying to track down DEVs. I also have a real life 52 hour per week job, a wife and six children. Plus, believe it or not, I actually play SWG. So, please stop asking where I am.

Now, as Ivoni has graciously pointed out, changing commando weapons to be seen by the game as ranged, rather than melee, was intentional. I'm not happy that the change was made unilaterally and that it was not balanced and have expressed that opinion in the Correspondent Discussion forum. While I am not at liberty to copy other people's posts there, I am passing on a copy of my post to Holocron below. Please read it.

You may not agree with everything I've said but I ask you all to stand with me and stand together on the basic issues: lack of balance in removing the damage multiplier and the lack of availability of someone to hear our issues. The post follows:

Ordinarily, this wouldn't be much of a problem except that changes continue to be made to our profession. Exactly what is my purpose as correspondent? I've spent a great deal of volunteer time keeping up with commando issues, tallying votes, writing updates and composing a lengthy report. Changes to the commando profession are discussed and implemented by the designers and not once in the last month have I been given the opportunity to pass along what the commandos actually want. Frankly, that's poor customer service and they are your customers, after all.

That being said, let me address this specific issue. Yes, recategorizing commando weapons was mentioned weeks ago inthe Designer Notesnotes whichQ-3PO posted on Sep. 18. On Sep. 19, Q-3PO went on to say "remember this is just a proposal. It hasn't been internally approved". In the three weeks since that "proposal" was made, I have not been given the opportunity to pass on any feedback from the commandos directly to Lord_Pall, nor have any of the other combat professions.

Commando weapon specials have a very short range (16m) and commandos are required to become unarmed brawler specialists to qualify for the profession. These and other factors imply that commandos were designed to be close combat specialists. In addition to the short range, our specials also have a lengthy delay in which we are utterly vulnerable. Commando weapons also have some high range penalties.

In practice, commandos end up combating most opponents at very close range, often using powerful specials but with long delays. Since the game saw our weapons as melee, most NPCs attempted to enter close combat with us. At that point, combat was melee and there was no bonus. Reclassifying our weapons as ranged may seem logical but it greatly reduces the combat effectiveness of the profession without giving anything in return to balance the loss. So, balance and lack of communication are the problems.

Now, the AI will see the weapons as ranged and far fewer opponents will close with us. They will sit back and use ranged combat and we will return fire with much less effectiveness since we will no longer receive the 2.5x melee vs. ranged bonus. We won't be able to use our specials unless we close to within 16m. We miss frequently while stationary and halt often when shooting out weapons on the run. So, when we attempt to close with our opponent, we will miss most of the time and stop on the way to take our shots. Those opponents who do close to melee range will now get the x2.5 damage multiplier against us. So much for being powerful close combatants.

Please note, since so many commandos are unhappy with this unilateral change, I will be posting this response in the commando forum as well.

Well said, classing a weapon that requires you to be in close quarters as ranged shows pure ignorance. Unreal. Simply unbelievable.

*at a loss*