Commando Archive
Thread: First response to the Week 1 Report.
1.) Weapon Cert for Heavy Acid Rifle and Beam Rifle. Currently, whenever you
try to use one of these 2 weapons you get the message saying that you are
not qualified to use this weapon, and the end result is 10 to 14pts of
damage per hit.
DEV: This should be fixed on Test Center currently.
2.) Poor stats on the Heavy weapons, basically the 0 ideal range, the
severely unbalanced range mods, and apparent lack of accuracy of the weapons
in general. This is for the Flame Thrower and HAR (Heavy acid Rifle), dpm in
the range of 1200 which considering that you cannot use marksmen skills with
the heavy weapon, you just point and shot, and wait for the mob to die with
no real tactics, these weapons should be in the 1800 to 2200 dpm, otherwise
there isn't really anything "heavy" about them.
DEV: The default attack of these weapons are not impressive. These weapons
shine with special moves. The Update on Test Center increases the power of
special moves. With greater power comes the need for balance (hence
requiring special moves for the good stuff).
3.) Insane delay time to recover from the special attacks. With Flame 1, I
have clocked 12 to 15 sec delay to recover from using this special.
Considering the affect is not nearly as good as healthshot2, this seems to
be a huge penalty to use one of four commando specials. In comparison,
Healthshot2, hits the target for 400pts, no damage initially, but ever 15
secs or so, the target takes 400pts of health damage, over an approximate
1.5 min time frame. The recovery time to fire the next shot, is a sec or two
more than the fire rate of the pistol. Where as with the flame1, it does say
300pt of fire damage initially, then does 150, the does 75 then does 35, and
the stops, all this in about 60 secs, However it takes, a full 13 or more
secs to recover and be able to execute any commands or return fire.
DEV: We're investigating this. With increased damage of special moves (see
above), the delay should be appropriate. Try it on Test Center and if is
isn't, we will tweak them.
4.) The extreme difficulty in getting resources for the weapons which
totally gates the profession. Not only do commandos have to wait for a
master weaponsmith, they have to wait for a whole gambit of rare resources,
that have not spawned once, or they have only been present for one day in
the beginning of release. Seems this is abit harsh considering the 2 primary
heavy weapons (HAR and Flame Thrower) are the only thing we can use to gain
HW exp and this appears to be true on all servers. What most would like to
see, is a few of the specific items required be changed to a general item,
for example, instead of Class 3 Liquid Fuel for the flame thrower, it
should be simply Liquid Fuel. The weapons shouldn't require more than one
or 2 specific items to craft, much like the other firearms in the game.
DEV: We do want these weapons to be more rare than other weapons because
they are more powerful, but we'll look into this more. On Test Center, we've
made some changes to the Launcher Pistol that should help Commandos adance
in heavy weapons.
5.) General components that we craft are in the wrong line, and basically do
nothing to improve the actual grenades. The grenade certs are in the acid
skill line, and they are only used on grenades. Plus I've had a weaponsmith
craft me 10 cryobans with compositions, and 10 without, and there are no
differences, even though I used high quality parts, that gave a 15 to 20%
experimentation on the composition. Commandos being combat classes get very
little experiment pts to make these, if they require 50%+ on
experimentation, its never going to happen.
DEV: Commandos should not be crafting anymore. Beta testers did not like
that commandos were crafters so we moved the grenades to the weaponsmith.
The remenants of that system should be cleaned up on Test Center.
Only pet peeve I have, is that when I use my flame thrower, things con less
than when I use my Launcher Pistol (which gives pistol xp btw), but I cannot
kill anything with the thrower at the same efficiency as I can with my
knucklers or my pistol. I miss my target 50 to 70% of the time with the
thrower, and the damage is sporadic, so I have deal 50% more damage to kill
something, for example, a mob with 1000 health requires on average 1500 pts
of damage to kill. At 1100 dpm (ave), it takes over a min to kill
something. Same mob with a knuckler can be killed in 10 secs, in 4 blows or
less. If the HW cannot target HAM then they need to have far better dpm to
be on par with other contemporary classes.
DEV: Try it with the improved special moves. Remember these are your special
case weapons; they are not intended to be your primary in all circumstances.
So basically nothing has been done or will be done.
Planetside here I come.
Thanks, Garibaldi. Sounds like we're off to a good start.
I'm a bit concerned that heavy weapons may only do heavy damage by using special moves. That's gonna hurt one of the HAM pools I'm sure. And I sure hope they don't decide that the default attack for Launcher Pistols needs to be nerfed on damage dealt.
Kinda wonder why they didn't just say Launcher Pistol will now give heavy weapons xp, instead of being sort of cryptic in their reply on the matter.
Lodacai
I sent a reply back, maybe a bit prematurely, but basically I said.
"with the 10 to 12 sec delay for specials, and the 75% or more chance of missing, this seems to be problem. Now if the specials have improved chances to hit, maybe this is a moot point, but if not, its either death or 0 group exp if you miss with a special"
"basically we are forced to solo due to the group exp"
"How can I test commando no TC? Is there a way to use my current character? To test commando on TC would require a month of grinding and powerleveling, which is very boring"
He states this, like I can just jump on the TC and play with a flamethrower.. Is that possible? Am I missing something?
"Alot of people do not view commando as a part-time profession, If the specials are only to be used sometimes, what suppose to be our primary form of attack?"
And if he says grenades, Im going to scream
"I know many people who have been commando for 3 weeks and have 0 HW exp because the weapons are not available. What am I to tell them? How are you changing the Launcher Pistol? Will people have to purchase new weapons to get the fix, or will the existing weapons be converted?"
My exact words were alittle different, but basically these were my thoughts when I first read it.
So if the patch comes thru and the specials are not impressive, then basically, commando's are a melee class, since the special require a 17m max range to execute, unless this has been fixed.
Well I hope what ever they are trying make us more viable..and not just random_chance_to_do_ungodly_dmg7000 so we shut up about how often we miss etc.
Keks
I want to go point by point on the light side. I'm sure that others with more experience will get deeper.
Point by Point
1) Acid Rifle cert - Of all the issues, this is by far the easiest code to tweak. So it will be fixed. Though, I'm sure that when it is fixed, it will have horrible damage and a short lifespan. Commando = Gimp
2) Special moves - I'm sure this translates into 'BALANCING'. Special moves that will destroy your HAM so that you will be very limited in their use. Commando = Gimp
3) Delay on Specials - It's being investigating as if this is a brand new issue. That equates to no fix. My favorite part is the: 'Try it on Test Center...' Is there a new Profession Vendor on Test Center that I don't know about that will instantly make me a Commando without the necessary 30 days of playing? Commando = Gimp
4) Resource Shortage - I think this gives us a little insight as to why resources are hard to find. The weapons are too powerful. What? DING DING, welcome to fantasy land. So let's gimp the resources so that the Commando weapons are very rare. I would agree with that wholeheartedly if the weapons weren't disposable after a certain number of uses. It has been suggested that 'resources' in general are used to throttle player advancement in the game. For example, the copper needed for Composite armor is no where to be found for at least 2 weeks. Hmmm. Commando = Gimp
5) Crafting Grenades - Another easy one, so it's fixed. Commando = Gimp
Pet Peeve - This is the most scary of all. This says that Commando is a Secondary Profession. That's funny, I thought it was a Hybrid Profession, higher than an elite profession. So I worked up the ladder to become a secondary profession. What should my 1st be? Master Chef? Am I missing something? Commando = Gimp
In closing, has anyone read the description of Commando in the 'Official' guide by Prima. If not, please do. After these responses, you will find the awe-inspiring and forboding verbiage entertaining, or better yet,cute like a little puppy that barks, but has no teeth.
Cepolly
Ok...Gonna Pick it Apart , Well the Peices i found interesting at least :
On Test Center, we've made some changes to the Launcher Pistol that should help Commandos adance
in heavy weapons.
Ok, this Leads me to Believe that the Days of the Launcher Pistol Giving Pistol EXP and being able to use Pistol moves is gone....Point and Shoot gun now?
Commandos should not be crafting anymore. Beta testers did not like that commandos were crafters so we moved the grenades to the weaponsmith. The remenants of that system should be cleaned up on Test Center.
Well, Actualy i Don't think Many if any Beta Commandos Were teribly Pleased with the way a "tree" was tossed together the last day, and Didn't get a chance to Actualy test the Class...I'm Sure the "customers" feel the same way too now 
I myself feel the tree is Build on a Weak foundation and seems kind of Holow....errr, Empty. But i certainly Don't Speak for Everyone However i willadmit i was on the "Crafting+Commando=Bad" side of the fence.
Remember these are your special case weapons; they are not intended to be your primary in all circumstances.
Ok, Now if Heavy Weapons is not our Primary Source of Offensive power (what i'll call it) then Dare i Ask what is Suppoesd to be? Grenades? See this is just a Logical Question the Comes to my mind when you make a statement like that in Refrence to our tree's contents. I see 3 lines Dealing With Heavy, "Special case" weapons and one line dealing with Grenade Knowledge(there are no grenade moves...So basicly it is just a "i know how to use a Thermal Detonator" line ) Ok So, if i Were to Read into What ya Said, Positivly it would be Infered that there are plans to put some more Standard situaltional Weapons and Moves in, Perhaps the Beam riffle and Launcher Pistol...But the question is what has been done to make them more "Heavy Weapon Freindly" ?
Try it on Test Center and if is isn't, we will tweak them.
Do You mean for us to try it on Test Center, or did ya mean, "We'll Try it on Test..." Cause i would rather not Put the Time into making two commandos myself, Just seems a littletorturous
Ok, thats all for the moment, i'm Sure more will come
I don't think your response is premature or out of line, Garibaldi. You know this class a lot better than I do. Heh, I've only been a Commando for a few days so my experience has been nothing more than poppingshots with the Launcher Pistol,gaining tons ofpistol xpand listening to my guildies go "Wow, what was that?"
"The wheel that squeaks the loudest gets the oil"
Lodacai
My problem with the whole "well use the special moves" philosophy is that I can't even GET a flamethrower on my server.
We're not given any special abilities at novice either..
Looks like a lot of excuses with little actual changes. I don't see how its fair that we get weapons less powerful than normal pistols/carbines/rifles yet they're suppose to be more rare because of their power? *boggle* what power?
By the way, who were the beta testers that didn't like crafting? If you ask me I'd love to tinker around to make my own grenades and such. As it stands now weaponsmiths (at least on my server) are charging ridiculous amounts for grenades. I mean c'mon, 2000 credits for 5 throwaways that most likely won't hit?
oy, we have a long way to go I guess.
Many thanks to Garibaldi_di_Alia for keeping us updated on this and trying his darnedest to get the commandos some love.
-Nahela Nira'te, Teras Kasi Fireworks Expert, Ahazi.
Ok I'm a little confused. Our special moves are suppose to be awesome from what I gather. Fine I can get thru the 150k heavy exp to get a special move once I have a weapon to get heavy weap exp with. If thats the launcher pistol great 
.
DEV: Try it with the improved special moves. Remember these are your special
case weapons; they are not intended to be your primary in all circumstances.
I'm wondering about this one. Does that mean the following?
Solo:
I open up with the Acid or Flamethrower. When the enemy closes in I switch to the Launcher pistol?
Grouped:
I'm able to use my Acid and Flame as long as I have people lending me support.
Thoughts?
Garibaldi
I'm glad that we are thinking along the same lines. My post was being written before you posted your second note. It makes me feel very good to know that our correspondent was not hood-winked by half answers and delaying statements.
Thanks for trying.
Cepolly
Drist wrote:Ok I'm a little confused. Our special moves are suppose to be awesome from what I gather. Fine I can get thru the 150k heavy exp to get a special move once I have a weapon to get heavy weap exp with. If thats the launcher pistol great " width=16 height=16 border=0>.
DEV: Try it with the improved special moves. Remember these are your special
case weapons; they are not intended to be your primary in all circumstances.I'm wondering about this one. Does that mean the following?
Solo:
I open up with the Acid or Flamethrower. When the enemy closes in I switch to the Launcher pistol?
Grouped:
I'm able to use my Acid and Flame as long as I have people lending me support.
Thoughts?
My thoughts exactly..maybe we can get some give and take via email if not the boards, so we can get some direction here.
You won't be able to open with the flamer, and maybe not with the HAR either, cause the specials are 17m max range. You may have to open with a cannon, run up and flame and then run like a fool with the pistol. I don't know. But if all these are suppose to be super rare items, then that means you are gated from being a full commando till you have one of each, which is 3 weapons minimum (pistol, cannon, and either a FT or a HAR). Still in group, if your pistol gets no specials (ie they take away the ability to use pistol skills) then you will get far less exp than your counterparts, and if you miss with a special, you'll prolly get next to 0. But its hard to judge until we see the specials on a real server. I still don't see how I can test this on TC before it goes live, in a week I hope?