Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Combat Medic is not Broken. Combat is broken.
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Sarkyn
Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:05 am
#1
Its the COMBAT that's broken, not the Medic
Okay, fine you got a response out of me. I'll try to keep this short because long ranty posts don't get read and the points get lost in the hyperbole.
My points:
Combat medic is not overpowered, and does not need nerfing.
The perceived over-poweredness of them is due to (a) bugs, and (b) incomplete implementation of the combat system, (c) flavour-of-the-month-ism.
CM will be fine if (a), (b) and (c) are resolved. There do not need to be any changes to CM Per se.
My defence for these points:
Yes, range is broken.
Yes, line-of-sight is broken.
Yes, the crappy area-duel thing is broken.
Yes, the venom is too powerful (I started a thread asking for it to be removed).
The Combat system is currently *partially* implemented. We can't even begin to discuss balance when we have half a system. End of story.
AND, the Crafting system is "not as they intended". I think that means that crafted items are more powerful than they imagined they would be. Of particular reference to this debate are 3 things - poisons are too good, armour is too good, and buffs are too good. Since we have _no_ defences, we should be very vulnerable. But since buffs and armour are so good, we have better defences than we should have. I expect that to be fixed as part of the combat system revamp, to be honest.
All the dickheads who were TKA's (until KD fixed), CH's (until nerf), then Stackers (until nerf) are now taking up CM. They don't play fair, they don't play well, and they are univerally quite not-fun. When (A) and (B) are fixed, they will hopefully move on.
Summary:
Yes, you are correct. PvP combat on any scale does now focus on the combat medic. That isn't good. Do you hear me? I agree with you.
But, last month, a stacker could take out me and 10 other Combat Medics, *while* on 1 hitpoint. I didn't moan, I just stopped playing PvP until they fixed it. Combat focused on the stacker.
And, the month before, a CH with 2 Grauls could dominate PvE completely and leave real combat classes feeling inadequate. I didn't moan, I just stopped grouping with CH's until they fixed it. Combat focuses on the pets.
And, my entire first few weeks of playing with PvP was spent on my back due to the TKA's spamming KD/Dizzy on me until I fell over. I adapted, it got fixed. I learnt very quickly that the only good TKA was the one that was far far far away from me. That's a tactic I still employ. In this case, the bug made me better at PvP. Combat focused on the TKA.
So, please don't moan on about Combat Medic needing a fix. It doesn't, and the Devs have said it is currently "exactly as they intended it to be" regarding PvP poison damage levels. Which means, they obviously know something we don't about the new combat system.
I waited for CH fixes, TKA fixes and (the one that really, really sapped the fun from PvP for me) Stacker fixes. Can you not just wait until they finish implementing the combat system to decide whether CM is overpowered?
What do I think will happen from here?
They will hopefully fix all the bugs I list above. The CM will no longer be able to hit you from anywhere, in any building, at any range.
They will finish implementing the combat system. I think stats and secondary stats will work in a completely different manner to the way they do now. This will have a fundamental effect on how toxins work, no doubt. Perhaps we will only be able to poison secondaries, or perhaps we will get "whole red pool" poisons that 1/3 damage but do it to each of the 3 red stats. Perhaps we will get innoculations. Who knows. We can't decide if its balance until we see it.
When they do, the CM will *seem* to be less powered than they are now, and the "flavour-of-the-month" people will move on. A+B+C solved, game balanced adequately, combat medic survives (at least as unscathed as the other combat professions survive).
At the end of all that, I will still be a Combat Medic. I was before it became the flavour, and I will be after. I will still be a very dangerous person to face on the field of Battle.
But at least then, I hopefully won't get hate-tells for doing what my class is designed to do, the way I do.
Okay, fine you got a response out of me. I'll try to keep this short because long ranty posts don't get read and the points get lost in the hyperbole.
My points:
Combat medic is not overpowered, and does not need nerfing.
The perceived over-poweredness of them is due to (a) bugs, and (b) incomplete implementation of the combat system, (c) flavour-of-the-month-ism.
CM will be fine if (a), (b) and (c) are resolved. There do not need to be any changes to CM Per se.
My defence for these points:
- (A) Bugs
Yes, range is broken.
Yes, line-of-sight is broken.
Yes, the crappy area-duel thing is broken.
Yes, the venom is too powerful (I started a thread asking for it to be removed).
- (B) Incomplete Systems
The Combat system is currently *partially* implemented. We can't even begin to discuss balance when we have half a system. End of story.
AND, the Crafting system is "not as they intended". I think that means that crafted items are more powerful than they imagined they would be. Of particular reference to this debate are 3 things - poisons are too good, armour is too good, and buffs are too good. Since we have _no_ defences, we should be very vulnerable. But since buffs and armour are so good, we have better defences than we should have. I expect that to be fixed as part of the combat system revamp, to be honest.
- (C) Flavour of the Month-Ism
All the dickheads who were TKA's (until KD fixed), CH's (until nerf), then Stackers (until nerf) are now taking up CM. They don't play fair, they don't play well, and they are univerally quite not-fun. When (A) and (B) are fixed, they will hopefully move on.
Summary:
Yes, you are correct. PvP combat on any scale does now focus on the combat medic. That isn't good. Do you hear me? I agree with you.
But, last month, a stacker could take out me and 10 other Combat Medics, *while* on 1 hitpoint. I didn't moan, I just stopped playing PvP until they fixed it. Combat focused on the stacker.
And, the month before, a CH with 2 Grauls could dominate PvE completely and leave real combat classes feeling inadequate. I didn't moan, I just stopped grouping with CH's until they fixed it. Combat focuses on the pets.
And, my entire first few weeks of playing with PvP was spent on my back due to the TKA's spamming KD/Dizzy on me until I fell over. I adapted, it got fixed. I learnt very quickly that the only good TKA was the one that was far far far away from me. That's a tactic I still employ. In this case, the bug made me better at PvP. Combat focused on the TKA.
So, please don't moan on about Combat Medic needing a fix. It doesn't, and the Devs have said it is currently "exactly as they intended it to be" regarding PvP poison damage levels. Which means, they obviously know something we don't about the new combat system.
I waited for CH fixes, TKA fixes and (the one that really, really sapped the fun from PvP for me) Stacker fixes. Can you not just wait until they finish implementing the combat system to decide whether CM is overpowered?
What do I think will happen from here?
They will hopefully fix all the bugs I list above. The CM will no longer be able to hit you from anywhere, in any building, at any range.
They will finish implementing the combat system. I think stats and secondary stats will work in a completely different manner to the way they do now. This will have a fundamental effect on how toxins work, no doubt. Perhaps we will only be able to poison secondaries, or perhaps we will get "whole red pool" poisons that 1/3 damage but do it to each of the 3 red stats. Perhaps we will get innoculations. Who knows. We can't decide if its balance until we see it.
When they do, the CM will *seem* to be less powered than they are now, and the "flavour-of-the-month" people will move on. A+B+C solved, game balanced adequately, combat medic survives (at least as unscathed as the other combat professions survive).
At the end of all that, I will still be a Combat Medic. I was before it became the flavour, and I will be after. I will still be a very dangerous person to face on the field of Battle.
But at least then, I hopefully won't get hate-tells for doing what my class is designed to do, the way I do.
Porkchop1
Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:08 am
#2
I did not read this cuz it was too long..
Just nerf this class and be done with it.
Schiller
Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:55 am
#3
Agree.
But i want to add one more thing. There must be an immunity timer on poisons of 30 seconds to stop CMs spamming area poisons on targets that are just cured.
Mophead
Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:40 am
#4
Or you could get more efficient doctors with you? If your in a decent pvp group your doctors will cure the poisons as fast as your hit.
Alternatively, you could shift cure poison from doc to master medic, making it more available.
Neither requires a change to the CM class.
Alternatively, you could shift cure poison from doc to master medic, making it more available.
Neither requires a change to the CM class.
XanderG
Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:42 am
#5
As a TKM who is sick to the back teeth of Nerf cries I agree entirely with Soo.
Combat Medic is not broken. Combat Medic is currently strong due to an incomplete implementation of the new combat system.
If you are not willing to take a couple of minutes to read Soo's post then don't dismiss it out of hand. It accurately reflects the current position of Combat Medic in SWG.
PvP is meant to be fun. It's not life and death. If you get beat by a CM learn from the experience. Try and figure out a way to work around their attacks. Remember - not all battles can be won.
In a word - get up, get over it and get on with your life.
Combat Medic is not broken. Combat Medic is currently strong due to an incomplete implementation of the new combat system.
If you are not willing to take a couple of minutes to read Soo's post then don't dismiss it out of hand. It accurately reflects the current position of Combat Medic in SWG.
PvP is meant to be fun. It's not life and death. If you get beat by a CM learn from the experience. Try and figure out a way to work around their attacks. Remember - not all battles can be won.
In a word - get up, get over it and get on with your life.
Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:58 am
#6
Porkchop1 wrote:
I did not read this cuz it was too long..
Just nerf this class and be done with it.
Whaaaahhh...
attentionspan too short? Maybe you should take up UT2004 as a game more attuned to your perceptive abilities.
Come on, this was quite probably the best motivated post on this topic in a very long time. The reasoning was clear and sound and the presentation spotless. But you feel the need to let us know that reading a text longer than the average "Where's Waldo"-book bores you?
*shrugs*
Anti-Thug
Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:13 am
#7
the only problem i have with this is no cm can really be accused of spamming when their is a 4 second delay, atleast for the animation where we are totally defenseless.
Schiller wrote:
Agree.
But i want to add one more thing. There must be an immunity timer on poisons of 30 seconds to stop CMs spamming area poisons on targets that are just cured.
CMMaster
Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:28 am
#8
Anti-Thug wrote:
the only problem i have with this is no cm can really be accused of spamming when their is a 4 second delay, atleast for the animation where we are totally defenseless.
Agreed, most people trolling the forums saying how they were CMs and continuously spammed mind poisons from god knows where away. Either
A) holo grinded the profession and didnt even stay a CM more than a day
B) Weren't a CM period
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