Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Adding HAM and Speed to poisons
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jfang
Thu May 06, 2004 10:19 am
#1
Assume for a second that there were no technical difficulties in implementing this. How does this idea sound?
There should be a HAM and a speed parameter on poisons and diseases (note, not on stims). Poisons and diseases are weapons, and have frequently been compared to grenades. So why do they not have an explicit HAM cost and speed?
In particular, I envision that the base speed of a poison be something like16 seconds, and the HAM cost be something like 50-50-300 (I just made those numbers up, and didn't actually try doing any math). At master, with 100 speed mods, the speed of a toss now becomes8 seconds (in other words, you would be rooted for8 seconds while throwing, which intentionally is longer than the current 4 seconds).
Next, when crafting the med, the ease of use experimentation parameter now can decrease the HAM costs, anddecrease the speed(a simpler, lighter, faster, easier to use med). So suddenly, that neglected potency-ease of use experimentation becomes much more important, and experimenting effectiveness all the way is no longer the clear choice. So in PvP (and to a lesser extent, PvE) combat, you have the option to throw a long distance med, a strong med, ora very fast (so you can run away sooner) med.
I would image something like when fully experimented, the speed would be something like2 or 4 or so (so can throw every second or 2 at master), and the HAM costs would be on the order of 10-10-70, which would befairlynegligable.
Now, because of implementation reasons (poisons being medicines in the code, etc), this is probably just a pipe dream. However, I thought I would share the idea and see what everybody thought.
jfang
Fri May 07, 2004 11:42 am
#3
Yes, ranged treatment speed currently is being used. However, the weapon itself does not carry a speed attribute (all poisons, ranged stims, and diseases have a single speed). I would propose to add an explicit, experimentable speed and HAM cost parameter to poisons and diseases.
Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Fri May 07, 2004 2:40 pm
#4
It does sound intresting.
Questions to think about though:
How would this affect effectiveness as in how much would a average "fast" poison tick for?
And, how would that affect gameplay?
Iporz
Sat May 08, 2004 12:25 am
#6
Throwing a poison, just like a stim already does cost mind. Just as much as a buff from a doc doesI believe.
jfang
Sat May 08, 2004 12:59 am
#7
I know that currently throwing a stim costs mind. However, like previously noted, much like speed, all poisons and stims are identical.
If you have two grenades, there is no reason to expect they throw for the same damage cost the same HAM. If you are shooting two guns, there is no reason to think they do the same damage, cost the same HAM, or shoot at the same speed. If you are swinging two swords, there is no reason to think they do the same damage, cost the same HAM, or swing at the same speed. Yet somehow, people expect that poisons and diseases should throw at the same speed and cost a constant HAM (or mind alone in the case).
I know that currently the ranged speed modifier exists, and it is not "free" to throw a poison. My idea was to add a level a complexity to poisons which do not currently exist.
Brainplay
Sun May 09, 2004 5:29 am
#8
Pahdbacca wrote:
Oooooohhhh, 35% damages sliced pooisoon. i like the idea
Wow sign me up and dont forget the powerups! Btw, throwing a poison is a pretty mind intensive thing to do already. Rooting us for 8sec is absolutely absurd, 4 sec already is enough to sign many CM's death warrants.
Commando grenades have heavy HAMs because they do incredible amounts of damage the second they land and can take out an entire group of unbuffed players instantly. Grenade powerup + proton grenade = lots dead things. Take away the long delay and HAM costs and commandos will stop being flamethrower_clone_01 and become nade chunkers.
jfang
Mon May 10, 2004 7:10 am
#9
I agree that being rooted for 8 seconds is absurd. Then again, so is a 50 effectiveness poison, or a 25 range poison, etc. The idea of experimenting is to be able to customize the stats of a poison to improve it, and to force the creator to trade off one benefit for another. In this system, you don't need to have a 8 second delay. The question is how much effectiveness are you willing to trade off to go from 5 seconds to 4 seconds, and from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.
Currently, experimenting effectiveness is almost a no-brainer. There are times you want other things, but the vast majority of times, with advanced components as they stand, there is no real incentive to experiment anything else. If we were to add a HAM cost and throw speed parameter to poisons and diseases (re-balancing thebase stats of them appropriately), it would hopefully make a better crafting system where you could get poisons and diseases better customized to how you want to act in combat. Eg. a TK-CM might have a strong, short ranged, slow poison, whereas a Doc-CM might have a weak, very fast poison.
Brainplay
Tue May 11, 2004 4:13 am
#10
jfang wrote:
I agree that being rooted for 8 seconds is absurd. Then again, so is a 50 effectiveness poison, or a 25 range poison, etc. The idea of experimenting is to be able to customize the stats of a poison to improve it, and to force the creator to trade off one benefit for another. In this system, you don't need to have a 8 second delay. The question is how much effectiveness are you willing to trade off to go from 5 seconds to 4 seconds, and from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.
Currently, experimenting effectiveness is almost a no-brainer. There are times you want other things, but the vast majority of times, with advanced components as they stand, there is no real incentive to experiment anything else. If we were to add a HAM cost and throw speed parameter to poisons and diseases (re-balancing thebase stats of them appropriately), it would hopefully make a better crafting system where you could get poisons and diseases better customized to how you want to act in combat. Eg. a TK-CM might have a strong, short ranged, slow poison, whereas a Doc-CM might have a weak, very fast poison.
Gotta disagree with you there. Unless you got some good stuff you'll really need to experiment it up. Effectiveness and distance are the too big ones. Med use is the other in order to make it sellable to those lazy basta...errr 4/0/0/4 CM's who cant make better than master CM's. So which do you want? 64m range or 600+per tick poisons? Unless you're using 900+ on all of your resources you wont get both. God forbidif you go and use a rancor bile.
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