Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Crafting Changes Today (Stealth Nerf, Great Success = 3% above invisible cap!)

Sarkyn
Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:21 pm
#1

Hi


I don't know who else noticed this, but today my crafting is different.


I make poisons LOTS.


Yesterday, a great success got me 7-8% of a bar, every time.


Now, when experimenting for EFFECTIVENESS on a Poison-C,it goes up to 70% doing that, and then suddenly every great success only adds 3%.


If I experiment on other bars, it works exactly as normal.


If this has been changed, I want to know why it isn't in any publish notes.


If this hasn't, then our Correspondant needs to make the devs aware thata new horrible bug has emerged.





Dr. Soo Chee
12pt Master Doctor, 12pt Toxicologist
BlueDog Corp Member and Supporter of Ferocious Kittens
Medicine/CM Vendor:
Corellia, BlueDog Mall -2000 -4660 (everything medical)

Princess Leia: "Darth Vader?! Only Soo could be so Bold"

vortexala
Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:43 pm
#2

Before I begin hammering the devs over this issue, has anyone else noticed this change?



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
Sarkyn
Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:55 pm
#3

I told another Master CM (Shai) and she confirmed my results within 5 minutes of doing them.


Its as if there is some sort of "cap" which, after you hit it, the poisons effect costs twice as many xp points to raise...



I did6 of them, all with exactly the same resources as yesterday, because I didn't believe my own eyes either. Popup still says "Great Success" but bar only moves by 3% instead of 7%. Still managed to cap the Effectiveness, but it took me 2 more Xp points than it would have done yesterday.






Dr. Soo Chee
12pt Master Doctor, 12pt Toxicologist
BlueDog Corp Member and Supporter of Ferocious Kittens
Medicine/CM Vendor:
Corellia, BlueDog Mall -2000 -4660 (everything medical)

Princess Leia: "Darth Vader?! Only Soo could be so Bold"

vortexala
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:01 pm
#4

I'm not showing any patch today. Hm...


What are the specifics? Using any enhancements to your skills? Inside a player city? Next to crafting station or droid? Etc, etc.



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
Sarkyn
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:13 pm
#5

Specifics (same as before today)


Research Centre, Metropolis

Tool +14.43

Station +42.58


advanced IA 54

advanced RC 45pot 80dur

advanced DM 18 charge, 15/12 ranges


Aexoc Non-Ferrous

CD801 MA666 OQ940 UT923


Wosausai LPF

DR506 PE775 OQ983


Eliroupic Fungi

DR840 PE794 OQ842


I have 12 experiment points, and +127 Assembly


When I get a great Success, I get 7 or 8% visible change on the bar.

UNTIL, the bar hits 70%.


Then, when I get a great Success, I get 3 or 4% visible change on the bar.




Thus, by spending more points I can still fill the Effectiveness bar.


But it costs me 2 more experiment points than it used to, thus giving me 2 less points that I would normally spend on range or potency.


Net effect is aless effectivepoison.




This did not work this way Sunday night (the last time I remember making a C-poison).


I am not averse to change, don't get me wrong. If they decided that 300+ poisons should be rarer, then so beit. But to do it without any sort of notification or explanation (or even patch), well, it sounds more like a bug, then.


Hope this helps. If you want specifics, feel free to talk to me in-game... or send me a mail.









Dr. Soo Chee
12pt Master Doctor, 12pt Toxicologist
BlueDog Corp Member and Supporter of Ferocious Kittens
Medicine/CM Vendor:
Corellia, BlueDog Mall -2000 -4660 (everything medical)

Princess Leia: "Darth Vader?! Only Soo could be so Bold"

vortexala
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:21 pm
#6






Sarkyn wrote:

I am not averse to change, don't get me wrong. If they decided that 300+ poisons should be rarer, then so beit. But to do it without any sort of notification or explanation (or even patch), well, it sounds more like a bug, then.


Hope this helps. If you want specifics, feel free to talk to me in-game... or send me a mail.





Lack of communication has always been one of my biggest all-time gripesconcerning this game. So trust me when I say that if that is the case, I will do everything I can to get this rectified.


Thanks for the specifics, much appreciated. I'll ask around to others tonight and see if they've noticed a change in their experimentations. By the way, does this only effect the poisons or has it effected any other schematics? And if it's just poisons is it all poisons or just a specific type?


And if anyone else has experienced this, please post and let me know.





~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
SioBabble
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:33 pm
#7

Yet another stealth nerf, it appears.


The devs, I'm afraid, have fully fallen to the Dark Side.




Tazz vonMannstein Baron-Administrator of Corellia, master navigator of Corellia, captain of the Gregarious Gurreck

Sio Babble MBH/MCH/Cabana Boy; master of Tyson, the GNORT OF DEATH

Jeffn Akbar Nerfed from here to Lok MD/MCM

Zanti Agaesia Bothan MBE, 12 point Master Chef, Havoc Squadron Ace pilot


Sarkyn
Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:12 am
#8



vortexala wrote:

P>Thanks for the specifics, much appreciated. I'll ask around to others tonight and see if they've noticed a change in their experimentations. By the way, does this only effect the poisons or has it effected any other schematics? And if it's just poisons is it all poisons or just a specific type?

And if anyone else has experienced this, please post and let me know.






I tried it with CM subcomps (no change).
I tried it with Doc subcomps (no change).
I tried it with Doc final assemblies (no change).

I didn't have the components on hand to test it with other High-end CM types. The one I did repeatedly was a Mind-Poison-C.

It was also midnight by this stage, so I decided further tests could wait until the morning.

We do need corroboration I agree.

There must be some other CM out there who gets over 70% on their Effect bar. What do you see? 7% per Great Success? Or 3% per Great Success?



Dr. Soo Chee
12pt Master Doctor, 12pt Toxicologist
BlueDog Corp Member and Supporter of Ferocious Kittens
Medicine/CM Vendor:
Corellia, BlueDog Mall -2000 -4660 (everything medical)

Princess Leia: "Darth Vader?! Only Soo could be so Bold"

Zarlor
Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:38 am
#9

Actually that sounds to me like the standard crafting process when experimenting on a bar that affects two different item attributes with two different caps. Once the cap for the lowest resource is hit (even though the bar shows the cap for the higher attribute, from that point on it has always only done half of the amount (3.5% instead of 7% in the case of Great Successes).


Maybe you just didn't notice it before?




Zarlor - Mesric City, Dantooine - Eclipse
Arissi Plains, Dantooine - Test Center
Sarkyn
Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:20 am
#10



Zarlor wrote:
Actually that sounds to me like the standard crafting process when experimenting on a bar that affects two different item attributes with two different caps. Once the cap for the lowest resource is hit (even though the bar shows the cap for the higher attribute, from that point on it has always only done half of the amount (3.5% instead of 7% in the case of Great Successes).
Maybe you just didn't notice it before?





Could you perhaps, Zarlor, let me know a little bit more about what you mean?

This is my assumption:

You mean that the difference is caused by the fact that the "Effectiveness bar" actually affects 2 things, right? In this case - DURATION and POWER.

And Duration is derived from the DR40/OQ60 index, whereas Power is derived from the OQ66/PE33 index.

So if I am understanding you correctly, you mean to say that the 70% point is where I am hitting my cap for the (lower) DURATION index, and that after that I am increasing only the POWER? Hence the 3.5% increase, being half of 7%?

Why would I only have ever seen this for the first time now, in 6 months of crafting on a daily basis?

Might I not have noticed it before of resource variances never having quite this combination?

If you can confirm that my assumptions on your statements are correct, I will pipe down and go bury my head in a factory again

Thankyou again!



Dr. Soo Chee
12pt Master Doctor, 12pt Toxicologist
BlueDog Corp Member and Supporter of Ferocious Kittens
Medicine/CM Vendor:
Corellia, BlueDog Mall -2000 -4660 (everything medical)

Princess Leia: "Darth Vader?! Only Soo could be so Bold"

Zarlor
Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:34 am
#11








Sarkyn wrote:

Could you perhaps, Zarlor, let me know a little bit more about what you mean?

This is my assumption:

You mean that the difference is caused by the fact that the "Effectiveness bar" actually affects 2 things, right? In this case - DURATION and POWER.

And Duration is derived from the DR40/OQ60 index, whereas Power is derived from the OQ66/PE33 index.

So if I am understanding you correctly, you mean to say that the 70% point is where I am hitting my cap for the (lower) DURATION index, and that after that I am increasing only the POWER? Hence the 3.5% increase, being half of 7%?






Yes, that would be correct. That is what I am saying.








Why would I only have ever seen this for the first time now, in 6 months of crafting on a daily basis?




I don't know. Many of us have noticed that before and the issues often gets brought up (probably more often on the Doc forum, though). It's a very, very easy one to miss, though. Many of us often look at the attribute changes, rather than the percent changes or any number of reasons.







Might I not have noticed it before of resource variances never having quite this combination?




Possibly.







If you can confirm that my assumptions on your statements are correct, I will pipe down and go bury my head in a factory again

Thankyou again!



Well, don't bury your head just yet. The whole method that seems to be accomplished by working with two attributes on one bar seems a bit screwy. This halving of the result after hitting the first cap would actually suggest that having a low DR (or duration cap or whatever) would actually have an adverse affect on your potential effectiveness, despite the fact that the equation the schematic tells us about doesn't seem to imply this at all. So it's very, very confusing that it works this way. I'd kinda like to see what, if anything, changes about this with the crafting changes on TC and I'd certainly prefer to see something done about these kinds of "oddities" in crafting. (It's a Top 5 issue on the Doc and Medic lists, that for sure!)




Zarlor - Mesric City, Dantooine - Eclipse
Arissi Plains, Dantooine - Test Center
Chickenlad
Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:12 am
#12

For every experiment I do, I keep a record of the resources and how much each bar is raised (and what the cap and values are) for each experiment point I spend. I was just doing this so I would know at which point I started to get diminishing returns.


I will do some experiments and post my comparisons on Cs in a bit.


Pahdbacca
Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:31 pm
#13

My guild weaponsmith tried to duplicate this with some DXR rifles....and the same thing happened. 7% up to 70 and about 3-3.5 after that.


Funny thing is, all attributes that can be experimented on use the same stats and formula....50/50 OQ and Conductivity.


He is looking into it some more, and I will do the same with meds.





-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata
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