CUEmu - Thread Posts

GrendalP

Mon May 17, 2004 1:44 pm

Made my first batch of poisons and long range heals last night... wanted to run some things by some of ya'll.

Mind C Poison

109 Potency

260ish Effectiveness

don't remember the duration or range, but I recall the range being 30-40m, I certainly didn't have any problems hitting anything i was aiming for.

Ticked for 530-540 range every 10 seconds...

I also made an area Mind C, that ticked for roughly 330-350 range every 10 seconds...

Now I know I didn't list the exact numbers, would if I could, but I don't have them right in front of me.

Anyways... how does this sound for poisons? about 60-70% of my resources were good quality, the rest where basically the best I could find, which in some cases was not saying much.... Using 800-900+ resources, what is most likely the best I can expect to get my poisons at?

Thanks

-Mish

jfang

Mon May 17, 2004 1:54 pm

#2

Using advanced components, and relatively good resources, you should be able to hit 300 effectiveness with individual poisons, and 200 effectiveness area poisons relatively easily with fairly good (not excellent) resources. Your potency and ranges are on par, but your effectiveness does need more work.

If you are using 800-900 quality resources and advanced components, it looks like you experimented charges-range. Since you can toss at the theoretical limit of 65m at a range rating of 33m, there is no reason experiment range (unless you want to take advantage of the known range bug.) The general rule is to dump all your experimentation points into effectiveness.

That aside, if you are using 800-900 quality resources (both OQ and PE, mind you), it's strange for a master combat medic to make a 260 effectiveness individual poison...

Good luck to your crafting.

GrendalP

Tue May 18, 2004 6:46 am

#3

I recently have been told that I should do a few of the following to help improve my numbers...

I should be using a home Chem/Food crafting station, and not my droid / portable chem station, is their any truth to that, and why is it better to use a home crafting station?

I was told that a "Research City" would be better for me... why is that, and what exactly does it do?

I experimented last night with attempting to craft/experiment within a research city, and I noticed nothing different than if I were standing in the middle of a desert. If a "Research City" is indeed better, do I need to be a member of it, or living in the community?

Stacking... In terms of stacking, thus far since a few of my buddies and myself go hunting, i've noticed that I can throw both an Area Health C, and an Area Health B, and they both seem to take effect. Could I also throw single versions of both the C and B, and get 4 ticks going at once?

I'm not using mind, because as of yet my two buddies are not capable of targeting a specific pool, so its in the best interest of everybody to get Health bleeds going.

Diseases... I'm told they are fairly useless, at least in PvM combat... dunno about PvP, still working on getting Master Rifleman, and proficient at crafting poisons and meds before I step into the world of player vs player combat. Can anyone shed the light on the usefullness and/or uselessness of Diseases in PvM and/or PvP combat?

Thanks in advance for any advice...

- Mish

Gnuut

Tue May 18, 2004 9:11 am

#4

One thing you need to check is the DR on your Fungus and Liquid Petro 2. This doesn't affect the overall effectiveness. It actually affects the way you use your experimentation in the effectiveness.

To get the most charges and range out of a pack you want to use an ADM that is max experimented for charges. However during final combine you want to use a non-ferrous metal that is not only high in OQ but in CD as well. Typically copper is best, but if you find a non ferrous or aluminum with high stats in OQ and CD, don't hesitate from using them either.

The reason you are only getting 260ish damage is more than likely because you are using a regular infection amplifier. They top out at about 20-25 power with really good resources. Unless your server doesn't have any Eleton Reactive or Titanium Aluminum available then you should make Advanced Infection Amplifiers. Power on these can range from 30-65ish.

Or you can camp the Fire Breathing Spider in the Geo caves to get some powerful substitutes. Look around on the boards for more info on this if need be.

Grau'din
Elder Combat Medic
Magnumus Mysterium MYST
I am not a support class.
I am a chemical warfare expert.
I am a bio-warrior.
I am a zerg-stopper.
I am a Master CM. Run for your life....

jfang

Tue May 18, 2004 9:42 am

#5

Actually, Gnuut, I do not think that the DR of the components has any effect on the effectiveness of the poison. It is true that both of them affect the "effectiveness" attribute in experimentation, and a higher DR you have, the higher the percentage of the bar will show at the end. However, I do not think the two stats are linked. My impression of how the system works is that the two stats are independent, andco-experimented. (This is why a "failure" can still increase one of the stats.)

Imagine your stats of your resourcesare such that you have 10%/50% effectiveness, and 5%/50% duration. This means the experimentation bar will show 10+5 or 15%/100%. If you experimentone point in effectiveness and get an amazing success, you now have 23%/100%, which breaks down to 14%/50% effectiveness and 9%/50% duration.

Now, imagine you are using perfect OQ and PE resources, but bad PE ones. So your effectiveness is at 30%/50%, and your duration is capped at 20%/50% (and your experimentation bar is at 50%). You can still experiment effectiveness, and if you spend a point and get an amazing success, you will have 34%/50% effectiveness and 20%/50% duration, or that amazing success made the overall experimentation percentage 54%. If you had better DR materials, the duration would have also gone up by 4% making the total experiment 58%/100%. However, note that the effectiveness would still be 34%/50%, and not have changed every though your amazing success made the experimentation bar go up farther.

This information is drawn from a 2 month old post asking if there was a stealth nerf, because when he or she got to around 70% or 80%, each point of experimetation did less that in did initially.

Wow, that was convoluted. Did it make sense, or should I try again (or give up)?

Gnuut

Tue May 18, 2004 11:26 am

#6

Well my experience comes from the following. Using all the same components and resources to make Single Mind Melt Cs. The only difference in each was the Fungus I used. I used the following components and resources:

AIA - 45

ADM - 26x21x11

ARC - 77x96

Ecoite (LP2) - 950ish OQ,860ish PE,600ish DR

Abiwep (Copper) - 977 OQ, 800ish UT, 800ish DR, 960ish CD

The two Fungi I used are :

Imerc - 965 OQ, 940 PE, 250ish DR

Wela - 900ish OQ, 850ish PE, 650ish DR

I have 12 experimentation points with which to play with. I live in a Research city and I have +20 to assembly as well.

Using Imerc I dump 10 points into effectiveness at which point I do not max out. I dump remaining 2 points into effectiveness and I max out at 295 effectiveness. I end up with a 295 eff, 120 pot, 40m, 47 charge Mind Melt C.

Using Wela I dump all 10 points into effectiveness to max out at 296. I dump my remaining 2 points into range and I end up with a 296 eff, 120 pot, 42m, 50 charge Mind Melt C.

After trying it a few times the above results tended to be average. After playing around with it a bit more I was convinced DR did not have a direct effect on effectiveness but it did help with experimentation. It seems to be more bang for the buck if you have a higher DR.

I remember Pip mentioning he noticed something along these lines as well when I first posted this months back.

Grau'din
Elder Combat Medic
Magnumus Mysterium MYST
I am not a support class.
I am a chemical warfare expert.
I am a bio-warrior.
I am a zerg-stopper.
I am a Master CM. Run for your life....

jfang

Tue May 18, 2004 11:34 am

#7

Actually, now that you mention it, Gnuut, I think you are right. I remember a doctor friend of mine commenting that, much like your experiment, using a lower PE butmuch higherDR organic made his buffs actually stronger. I take back what I said earlier.

The question then is, what is the formula for how experimentation affects final stats. based on the 66% OQ 33% PE, it would seem on the surface that a 1000OQ, 1000PE, 0 DR and a 1000-1000-1000 would have the same end effectiveness, although you have shown this is not the case. I wonder if somebody will ever figure out and post the formula for experimentation...

Pahdbacca

Tue May 18, 2004 2:02 pm

#8

Don't know what the formula is, but I think there is a difference. I am fortunate enough to still have some 954/914/904 OQ/PE/DR fungus to play around with...it is entirely possible that I am biased, but I think that I get a boost from the high DR.

I will run some experiments later on...I am running back up to master CM but only have crafting II at the moment and am working off of old meds stashed in the bank until I get master again.

Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 05-18-2004 05:24 PM

-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata

GrendalP

Wed May 19, 2004 6:38 am

#9

So what is the deal with Research Cities? Can you merely just be in one, or do you actually have to be a citizen of the city to get the benefit of its "Research Capabilities"?

Also... home crafting station... is it worth my while to invest in one of these, or will my advanced r2 unit and a chem/food crafting box work? What difference could I expect to see with either?

Thanks

- Mish

jfang

Wed May 19, 2004 7:53 am

#10

GrendalP, fundamentally, there are two ways to improve your items:

1) Get better resources. This increases the base stats of your item, and raises the maximum you can experiment a stat to.

2) Get more experimentation points. This lets you experiment an item more, and thus increase more stats. This is done by increasing your crafting skill points (through tapes or through skill boxes, *not* through foods or other modifiers, every +10 is one experimenationpoint, maximum of 12 crafting points at +20 skill tape)

All the better crafting stations, better tools, assembly and experimentation foods, and city specialization only increases the chance of getting a good result, rather than actually making the final product better, No matter what tool you use or modifiers you have, a "great" success is the same. In theory, an (exceptionally) lucky crafter using a -15 tool and a -45 crafting station can make the same items as a person with a +15 tool and a +45 crafting station eating food in a research center.

The only reason why a better tool, food, and city specialization are used is that they increase the chances of getting great andamazing successes. However, assuming you have infinite time and resources (which you do not), they will not actually improve your meds, they just make any given attempt at making a good med more likely to succeed.

As for "is it worth getting better tools", short answer is yes. You can get a +14 or better crafting tool for a few thousand (if not a few hundred) credits, and you can likely get a +30 or better crafting station for a few tens of thousands credits. As for how much more a better tool is worth to you after that, that is a matter of personal preference. Unless you are a perfectionist, are crafting with loot drops, or crafting hundreds of schematics, it likely isn't worth it...

(Oh, and research cities? I don't know, as I've never used them. I believe you just need to be in the city, but am not completely sure.)

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