Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Why won't they just *listen*?

jfang
Wed May 19, 2004 8:47 am
#1



In reading the forums, there seems like a lot of the nerf cries and counter cries say the same things over and over, And somehow "the other side" never seems to get it. I have tried to compile a list of the arguments to clarify the conversation. The important thing to point out is that all these arguments, from *both* sides, are true. (At least in my experiences they are, and they sound reasonable to me.)


However,none of the arguments address the base concern of the other side, which is why the nerf combat medics argument continues. (I have places the reason why the arugment does not impress the other side in parenthesis.)



My intent in posting this is to try to clarify the arguments behind the numbers, insults, and flames. Hopefully, we can all take a step back, find the underlying problem (if there even is one), and talk about ways toaddressit (rather than just looking at the symptoms and applying a crude blanket nerf).


Please keep any conversation in this thread civil. A conversation or debate about if combat medics are overpowered or not isgood and productive(so long as both sides actually pay attention to the other side). However, flame wars are unproductive, and hurt any dialogue or hope of change or progress.
jfang
Wed May 19, 2004 8:48 am
#2


Combat medics:
-We have low defenses to offset our high offense (as your buffed opponent I'm more interested in living and keeping my buffs than killing you, and eveni if I do kill you, I'm still dead if I'm not a doctor or teras kasi)
-Why don't you bring a doctor (it is hard to find a doctor to PvP with you, especially if you don't know for certain that you will be in a PvP encounter such as going to the rebel outpost, and requiring 90 or so skill points to get doctor for everybody to PvP is just not acceptable)
-Try using tactics, such as spreading out (in a base attack this is not an option, furthermore in combat people move around so it's hard to stay spaced, and by spreading out you disperse fire making it harder to be effective)
-Range/los/poison-disease incap are bugs, they should be fixed, not nerfed (until they are though, combat medics as they stand are ruining PvP combat)
-Wait for the combat revamp before judging mind damage and nerfs (the combat revamp won't be for several months though)
-We don't do that much damage per second, it's just it's mind damage in a large chunk that make people overreact (given the state of foods and armor, in PvP combat medics *do* do among the most if not the most damage)
-We have horrible DPS for PvE, it stands to reason that we should be stronger in PvP (whether or not you can kill a chuba doesn't really matter to me when I am fighting you in a PvP encounter) *author's note: I personally disagree with this statement, but it seems like most combat medics agree with it, so I am posting it anyway.*
Jibbrish
Wed May 19, 2004 9:33 am
#3

I've thought that the issue isn't one of pool target or strength but that poison is a ranged attack. If it were a melee attack or very short range (10m or less)i think we'd see a big change in the way it's used and some of the CM vulnerablities would really start to count. Same time it becomes a more directed attack.


Or keep it an area attack and have it affect ALL characters in the area, including the CM's own group. That would make it more like a chemical attack where a cloud is produced and ANYONE in the area is affected (inlcuding the CM and their group if they are in the cloud).


This type of change would make CM's evaluate whether it's a good idea to use poison or to concentrate on backing up their group ... in fact making it more of the weapon of last resort that chemical warfare weapons should be.





~ERAMBACCA~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ELOISE~
CARBINEER, MEDIC, RESOURCES~~~~~~~MASTER SMUGGLER, GENERAL BADAZZ
CAPTAIN, REBELLION ARMY~~~~~~~~~~~~~COLONEL, REBELLION ARMY
~~~~BANTHA FE, TATOOINE, TEMPEST~~~~

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Stacker4Life
Wed May 19, 2004 10:29 am
#4

I am sorry but Combat Medics are not the problem in PVP today.

Combat Medics are the only class that deal damage. In my opinion Combat medics are the only reason people die anymore. Combat medics are the ones keeping the GCW alive in my opinion. Who wants to fight a buncha super buffed/impenatrable armor toting fencer/Rifleman, with stacked defenses, acklay and krayt weaponry, hell i'll even take it a step further, they have pre-eaten synthsteak, and now are eating 3 canapes, 2 brandies, and popping some spice, giving them not only 3k Health/con/str 3k action/stam/quick and a WHOOPING 5k mind/focus/willpower
how the hell is an average group of players supposed to take down them? one word poison.

See without CM's right now all duels and battles will last indefiently with uber crazed fencer/rifleman trying frantically to kill each other, but each person is soo highly buffed/armored/defensed it takes several hours to kill one person.

Without combat medics battles will last indefinetly, and then the next class all of you people will want to kill/nerf will be riflemen because rifleman will be the people doing the damage. Simply put:

Combat Medics ARE IN LINE AND BALANCED WITH ALL OTHER COMBAT CLASSES.

What is out of wack?

Armor/Buffs/Unhealable Mind Pools/STIM B's available to every tom **edit** and harry.


So all of you people stop being ignorant ot the state of the gcw....and wait for the combat balance. This is bigger then CMS...

COMABAT MEDICS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM THEY ARE THE ONLY SOLUTION.





Rezael Is Dead.
BristaAB
Wed May 19, 2004 10:52 am
#5

COMABAT MEDICS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM THEY ARE THE ONLY SOLUTION.



You didn't understand Jfang's post did you?



[Black] Style is everything - so is winning [Black]
Black Guildhalll: Dantooine Agro Outpost 2052 -6412, Infinity
Merchant Tent: Corellia 308 -6012, Infinity
BristaAB
Wed May 19, 2004 11:18 am
#6

In response to the thread's question the reason people won't just listen is that most posters perceive that Developer reaction is shaped by post quantity not quality


In other words if I start a"Nerf Cm" thread and one of you posts an intelligent rebuttal, it's more effective to me to just start a new "Nerf Cm" thread than to address your points


The 9 consecutive nerf CM threads in the GCW forum that one of the posters here mentioned are probably more effective, even if they are "OMG I just got poisoned for 5k and all my bars turned black" type posts, than a single well-reasoned post would be


The recent reversal of the crafting experimentation changes due to popular outcry is a case in point. The Weaponsmiths (with gated resources) would have been adversely affected and successfully orchestrated a big forum reaction against the changes. Many of the ensuing protests came from professions like Architect and Artisan that actually benefitted from the changes


Very very few of the posts in the campaign were intelligent and yet it was successful


What I would like to see in general is more developer feedback in the forums. Thunderheart does a really great job but I get the feeling they hired him cos none of the other Devs want to talk to us


I would also like to see a re-write of Mods and Correspondents job description. I think the Mods need to be a bit fiercer about enforcing constructive debate by simply deleting new threads about current topics. No way should a forum let 9 consecutive threads about the same issue be posted - just keep the first one anddelete the other 8. This should help people develop their forum skills as well as improving the standards of these boards


For Correspondents I would like them to be urged to bat for their own side a bit less and work out balanced solutions more. If all the correspondents could agree on solutions that solution would have a lot of weight with the wider community. If Vortexa was posting things like "sorry guys, we've wrangled out a CM balancing proposal and I had to give way on 75% PvP reduction. What I gained for us was a reworking of stimming so thatlots of stimming in combat is essential for high end combat or PvPand an acceptance that our bugs should be prioritised above any other professions". (Just an example)


Alternatively the Devs could just stop listening to the players completely, a method which I'd prefer personallyto the current whine-driven system



[Black] Style is everything - so is winning [Black]
Black Guildhalll: Dantooine Agro Outpost 2052 -6412, Infinity
Merchant Tent: Corellia 308 -6012, Infinity
flux77
Wed May 19, 2004 2:36 pm
#7






Jibbrish wrote:

Or keep it an area attack and have it affect ALL characters in the area, including the CM's own group. That would make it more like a chemical attack where a cloud is produced and ANYONE in the area is affected (inlcuding the CM and their group if they are in the cloud).







I say this idea has some merit, except one little issue. If you were to make our area affect poison/diseases affect everyone in the area, a fair exchange would be to also make all area ranged and melee attacks do the same thing. I mean, the only CM offense is poison/disease, they are our weapon as defined by the developers. If you are attacking with aranged weapon and choosing to use area attacks, and you are standing behind your grouped melee or close ranged weapon buddies, shouldn't your area attack harm them as well as your target?An area ranged attack is basically hitting all things in a cone in front of you. I just think that if there is going to be something like forced friendly fire when it comes to CM's it should be forced with all area attacks.







Logaar


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results -- sound familiar?

I hate to see you go, but I LOVE to watch you leave
Blackmoore
Thu May 20, 2004 12:05 am
#8

So you are saying that all DOT weapons should be removed from game too then? Well they deal damage and poison and disease! Heaven help us all. I am running inside to never declare overt again! Sorry some cynical feedback for the whiners. If you actually READ the forums, you will find that there is a plan to make the mind pool healable. Also, there is a poison mitigation spice coming in the smuggler revamp. Really, all you combatants think docs and combat medics are support for you so you can be uber and kick some butt. Give me a break. The profs are set up to be teams. Teams need tactics. Quit whining and learn how to play the game and build teams. The difficulty of theCorevtte should be an indicator. If I am such a support class, then why do I die in the heat of battle? Everyone wants a CM on their side but few are willing to protect them when the crap hits the fan. I just love the way whiners are trying to fix the class without playing it. You just don't like the fact that you have a weakness. I say get over your uber selves and play the game.



Ocore Wavingmist: Jedi

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Blackmoore
Thu May 20, 2004 12:12 am
#9

Amen Stacker4Life!



Ocore Wavingmist: Jedi

Ewang Grandstrand: 12 Point Master WS/12 Point Master AS/Merchant

Chilastra/Corellia/Coronet Vendors at 753 -5233 and the Merchant Tent 717 -5260

New Restuss vendor 5052 6371, New Theed vendor -6667 5028

Chilastra/Tatooine/Ronin City
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