Combat Medic Archive
Thread: CM's single handedly determine GCW base fight outcomes.
I can single handedly DECIMATE an entire base of defenders. You can too if you're a CM. Here's how:
-)Find or place a structure that's about 60-70 m away from the base that gives you line of sight cover.
-)Target a rebel in the doorway of the base, or one in the base courtyard. Run to 64m spamming the ae poison pack, then run back to cover. If people leave the base to chase you, your teammates + the poison will quickly drop them. (If there is no rebel outside the base, use a spy/sleeper agent to provide you with an AE target)
-)Assuming they have a few docs, they start to cure. Docs can only cure so fast, and due to lag, half the docs take 1 tick of 500 mind damage. Eventually, they'll cure everyone, and be fairly low on mind. Don't even let that happen.
-)5 seconds later, go back, & repeat with a disease pack. Run back to cover.
-)Run back out & do it again with a poison pack again.
Walls don't stop the AE. Everyone inside of the base, regardless of their Z axis has been poisoned twice, and diseased. By the time the 3rd poison hits, the Docs are out of mind, and their entire force can be easily rolled. They have no mind, they can't use specials, and they're extremely vulnerable.
Since the cure line is usually the last line docs take, the only people that can cure will be master docs. Unless every other defender is a master doc, there's no way they'll be able to keep themselves cured. Because the cure takes mind to use, with lag, even the docs will take a tick of the disease or poison as they're curing folks. That will eat their mind so they won't have enough to cure themselves, then it's all yours.
If they're being especially pesky, just do the same thing, but use 2-4 CM's. They can land a disease/poison combo every 2 seconds. Docs can't even cure themselves that fast. That means they get hit by a poison tick, and when that happens, it's everyone with 1 mind. Then they black bar, and you just walk in.
Mind poison/disease = auto win.
Counters:
-)Kill the CM. No go. CM can fling from as far as you can shoot. Buffed, wearing armor, the CM is going to get 1-2 AE's off before they drop. With good attackers dragging back incapped CM's & getting them back up, we're nearly unstoppable. Kill me, I'm going to be dragged back to camp, revived, healed, buffed, and I'm back out in 60 seconds.
-)Cure the disease/poison. My guild has 4 CM's. (Soon to be 6) We can poison & disease you all faster than you can cure. Once your docs are hit by an AE, they're out of mind, and can't cure. Then we laugh at you & kill your base.
-)Strike first with your own CM's. This is the only way to stop us. You need to hit us harder, and faster with your CM's than we can hit you.
GCW has turned into CM AE wars. It's lame.
Solutions: (Pick one, or more)
-)Nerf Mind AE's, by either seriously reducing the damage, or removing them entirely.
-)Give CM's or Docs (Or both) AE disease/poison cures.
-)Lower Poison & Disease cure to medic. (Helps, but 2-3 CM's will still pwn you)
-)Nerf AE pack range even more, so CM's have a chance to be killed before we can throw.
-)Turn the current CM mind heal into an AE mind heal, make a single target mind heal at L2 on the same tree that has no wound cost.
-)Give Docs, or CM's the ability to immunize buff people.
-)Make the AE require LoS to hit. I shouldn't be able to hit everyone inside a base, esp at the bottom levels because I targeted a guy just outside the base.
All kinds of CM's will call me stupid, and say that I'm ignoring the obvious, and that they don't need another nerf. CM's that have a lot invested in their class don't want to lose their last broken ability, and will do almost anything to avoid bringing attention to how overpowered mind poison/disease is.
Say what you want. Our last recent battles have been a joke. We CM bomb & walk in unopposed, REGARDLESS of how many defenders they have. The more they have, the easier it is, because we have more targets to AE. The only real losses we have had are when Rebels CM's roll us first, or when we haven't had the CM's online to bomb the enemy forces.
Although I disagree that CM's need another nerf...how about a compromise...or a trade as you will?
Nerf the AE packages...but, give us something to fight off Fire DOTs?
Just a suggestion...
Peeje Aye - Flurry Server
While this might be a rather extreme post, I do agree.
Combat Medics ability to slay an opposing force via attrition is absurd thanks to the power of poisons and ESPECIALLY diseases. I've watched Combat Medics die 20 times in a battle with no care, as long as they get off their AE disease first.
This sounds more like /whine my PA got pwned by a bunch of CM's then a CM asking to get his own profession nerfed.
If you want to see something that needs nerfing, become a Rifleman, Commando or any Elite Melee class.
All you see from them is - KD / Dizzy / Mind Bleed or whatever else they attack with.
Maybe you are a CM, but it just sounds like you are a bitter person who got caught on the wrong end of a battle.
Yesterday, we took out a base an hour after it went up, and then sliced 2 other side-by-side bases 17 times, while some of the Rebels there used the Covert override exploit to reset the base, over & over.
We have 6 detatchment HQ's placed in our city that have yet to have a serious threat.
We don't lose bases, we blow yours up. Part of that is how we use CM's, and it's completely sick how effective the mind poison/disease is.
IT CANNOT BE COUNTERED. Dizzy can be countered. Rifleman AE's are stopped by Armor, are dodge/ranged defense able, and target a random pool.
It makes the GCW stupid. I want a civil war, not a Combat Medic War.
/agree RakeOdimo
Isn't that what CM's are supposed to do, provide support for our group.Looks like thats what your doing when yourraiding with your group, your softening up the enemy, thats what CM's do best. It's up to the other side to prepare for CM's. It's not like nobody knows what a CM is capable of, we can't incap anymore, so the enemy is still up and running. Then the major combat players go in the for the kill. What's wrong with that?
I'm not entirely sure how to react to this. I have no question that this is effective as you describe. I think that the ability to create cover by placing a house may be the bigger problem. But that all said, I am stunned that no one seems to try the obvious way mechanism to mitigate CM effectiveness - spread out! If the defenders are all clustered inside the base, they deserved to get posioned to some extent. Yes, spreading out exposes individual defenders to greater harm, but a CM can't really afford to run around picking off individuals. And if your side comes out of cover to pick off individuals, it's game on.
I'm not suggesting that different tactics completely neutralize the advantage of having a CM (particularly when the opponent does not have one), but your opponents need to develop a bit of a brain before they place expensive faction toys.
just a thought...how about the "other side" fight fire with fire with thier own cm's
i am also a doctor and have NO problem now healing aoe poisons/disease. they are sooo easy to cure with one cure and if your a SMART doctor your mind is dancer buffed and you use foodto increase your focus/willpower or if emergency use muon.
its all about tactics and counter tactics. LEARN TO PLAY SMART simple as that
s'atyr
Adune wrote:
CM's RULE GCW PvP. I have a CM/Doc char. Most CM's will say anything to prevent their class from getting nerfed again, but it's needed.
GCW has turned into CM AE wars. It's lame.
Solutions: (Pick one, or more)
-)Nerf Mind AE's, by either seriously reducing the damage, or removing them entirely.
-)Give CM's or Docs (Or both) AE disease/poison cures.
-)Lower Poison & Disease cure to medic. (Helps, but 2-3 CM's will still pwn you)
-)Nerf AE pack range even more, so CM's have a chance to be killed before we can throw.
-)Turn the current CM mind heal into an AE mind heal, make a single target mind heal at L2 on the same tree that has no wound cost.
-)Give Docs, or CM's the ability to immunize buff people.
-)Make the AE require LoS to hit. I shouldn't be able to hit everyone inside a base, esp at the bottom levels because I targeted a guy just outside the base.
Per our discussion in the BRIA forum over this topic, I can see you are still miffed over this. Hehehe I was trolling you a little. I was bored at work. I am surprised you actually took the time to think about solutions instead of crying nerf.
First off, most of your complaints should really be focused on the root cause. The 3 pool system we have in this game is flawed. The mind pool is just too fragile and promotes way too much profession jealousy. It gets tiring to hear people whine about why they can't do this or that, or why a certain class gets specific skills. News flash: Most professions have SPECIAL things that only they get to use. A CM is crippled with relation to having to spend so many points and still get their butts handed to them when they try to go do a simple mission without pets or friends to back them up. However, we get some nice skills like TN, poison, disease (for the PvPers and med XP exploiters), and mind heals.
As far as your suggestions:
-- I think reducing the effectiveness of poison (single or area) is unwarranted. This would cripple CMs in PvE. PvP is only played by 13-18% of the population out there. Disease perhaps could tolerate some tuning because it is a PVP only weapon and is quite effective at busting up bases through attrition. Removing the poison/disease skill would invalidate the whole class. 169 points for ranged heals and a lobotomizing mind heal...... no thanks.
-- Not sure about the AE cure poison/disease. If that were implemented I am torn on which class should get it and I am not really sure how the balance would work. What resources would be required to make them? etc etc.
-- Lowering the cure poison/disease to medic would overpower medic. That would imbalance a class that costs 169 points with one that costs 77 (i think thats how much is costs.... too lazy to count LOL).
-- Nerfing of pack range makes the plight of CMs even worse as far as survivability. We do pause when we throw those things. Not all of us like to be suicide bombers.
-- As far as AE mind heal..... totally against that. I think they need to fix the overall pool problem before they add yet another bandaid that is catered to less than 1 in 5 players.
-- Immunization is interesting. I need to think about that for a while. My initial thought is that unless the immunization wears off really quickly, it would severely cripple a CMs effectiveness.
-- LOS requirements for AE is absolutely needed. I can't believe the devs missed that one. I think that would be classifed as a bug.
Anyhow, tried to be objective with you Adune. I gave u a hard time yesterday =)
MasterSatyr wrote:just a thought...how about the "other side" fight fire with fire with thier own cm's
i am also a doctor and have NO problem now healing aoe poisons/disease. they are sooo easy to cure with one cure and if your a SMART doctor your mind is dancer buffed and you use foodto increase your focus/willpower or if emergency use muon.
its all about tactics and counter tactics. LEARN TO PLAY SMART simple as that
s'atyr
Two things.
First, Dev repeatly said over and over that they do not want "uber template", meaning they do not want players to feel that they must take particular profession to succeed.
So if solution to CM problem is "then go CM", then it is not the solution Dev will accept.
Second thing is "use tactic" never works. It was favorit advice of CH. "Use tactic, go after the pet owner first", etc, etc. This argument didn't work for CH and it wouldn't work CM since all such argument start with acceptance that one profession have such huge advantage that special "tactic" must be employed to counter it.
I don't think CM believe that they have such vast advantage in PvP to a point where everyone else must constantly employ specific tactic just because of one profession do they?
As Pahdbacca pointed out, every trouble with CM have always been the lack of clear direction from Dev on what their "vision" in role of CM are. Almost every argument eventually come down to that.
You guys got owned... deal with it.
As if the CM was the only one doing the fighting. You bunch of wimps cowered in your rebel base and got owned. good for you.
You are fsckin stupid. Did the CM's own you? Sure they did, but they didn't do it alone.
If you're a doc who thinks you can keep up with area disease AND poison you're smokin something. Even only at only speed 3 on the combat medic tree you can throw out AE's about as fast as cure poison/disease would refresh for a master doc. So how exactly again are you gonna cure 2-15 people of poison AND disease, when the CM can just sit there and lob both types constantly?
Also, regarding the spread out thing.. That's nice and all, but they're still gonna hit at least a couple people, and it just takes 2 AEs to basically incap and kill most people. 2 weeks ago I was helping to deal with a griefer type CM who would just clone, rush us, toss an AE and die. Each time afterwards I had to rapidly run around trying to cure disease or poison my groupmates before more than a tic or two could go by. Eventually it just cost us too much via Attrition.
I agree an overall poison/disease reduction would cripple in PVE, but PVP is another story.