Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Combat Medic Role: What Do You Want It To Be?

vortexala
Thu May 06, 2004 2:28 pm
#1

Since we've been talking about our 'One Question' to send in next week it's become obvious that the whole, "Are we Combat MEDICS or are we COMBAT Medics" really is a sticky subject.


So, with that in mind(and since I'm in the mood to steal an idea from the TK Board), I'll just put this thread up here.


What do YOU Think we are? What do YOU think our Role should be?


If you'd like to see my opinion, you can look at the Developer started thread: In-Concept: Combat Medics to find out. It's also a good place to get ideas of what other players feel we are...


So, let's hear it



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
oblivion3134
Thu May 06, 2004 2:37 pm
#2

Area debuffs and better ranged mind heals.



tepor
Dwarf Nuna Babies 4 Life
SioBabble
Thu May 06, 2004 2:43 pm
#3

What should the combat medic's role be?


1. Healing on the battlefield in ways docs cannot (ranged and AOE damage healing)


2. Combat support with poisons and diseases, which should be insidious, not overpowering.


I honestly think that we've got these two now, but factors beyond our control (buffs making promiscuous use of composite possible with no degredation in combat power possible) cause us to appear to be overpowering dominators of the PvP battlefield. Mainly because our moderate attacks seem devatastaing when we can get past composite armor and other damage dealers, with far greater raw power, cannot.


Alone, we are nothing in PvP. We can "damage from beyond the grave" but only if our victim is unprepared or does not have their wits about them.Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who panic at the first tick of disease or poison, and this gives us psychological power far beyond our real power against a determined, prepared opponent. Pretty much how an MCH who calls out a rancor can psych out someone unprepared for it and win.


Those who have learned, though, and know we're there and know how to defeat us do not fear us, but respect us.


The psychological impact of CMs on the contemporary SWG battlefield is devastating. Between us and the other mind damage dealing profs, we do hold dominance. Mainly because other profs can't get past composite armor like we can. If it were not for the trival ability to wear composite, we'd be seen more as annoyances than serious threats.






Tazz vonMannstein Baron-Administrator of Corellia, master navigator of Corellia, captain of the Gregarious Gurreck

Sio Babble MBH/MCH/Cabana Boy; master of Tyson, the GNORT OF DEATH

Jeffn Akbar Nerfed from here to Lok MD/MCM

Zanti Agaesia Bothan MBE, 12 point Master Chef, Havoc Squadron Ace pilot


OnlyMaestro
Thu May 06, 2004 2:47 pm
#4

Combat Medics are far superior to Doctors in combat healing situations...except for state cures (obviously)


CM's should be squared more to that, healing. And not just "suicide bombers." For PvP people bring CMs not to heal, but to poison.




Then again with buffs as they are, armor absorbing nearly all damage...there is no healing in this game anymore. :/ Debuffs would be great, or even new concoctions of items...ranged status cure heals?



4Colonel Griffin Shade
4Combat Upgrade Tester Team Kick to Face
4Real men wear Marine Armor
4"Never stop fighting till the fight is done."
- Elliot Ness

jfang
Thu May 06, 2004 3:32 pm
#5




I have no idea at all how to implement it, but I want combat medics to be the "combat by other means" profession. There are a lot of standard combat classes, meaning they have a gun or a big stick, and hit each other over and over until somebody falls down. How they attack, with what they attack, where they attack, and all of that vary, but fundamentally, they are all "hit it until it's dead" combat.


I envision combat medics as filling the "other" role for combat. We should be the ones which vary the flow of combat. For example, throwing a disease, which (in theory) causes the other side to start thinking about what to do to address it, beyond simply punchinguntil the problem goes away. Or throwing a poison, which (in theory) causes the other person to react by trying to withdraw from combat to have it fixed, rather than headshooting as fast as possible hoping the enemy dies before you do. Throwing special effects (which might not exist in the game, such as a "glop grenade" which causes opponents to move at half speed, or a "softening agent" which reduces resists of enemies by 1% every 10 seconds until washed off by water or a doctor) would fit in the same category. Even such an effect as area healing, which augments your side by preventing your allies from falling over dead, significantly affects combat without wielding a big stick. (In an ideal world, we would be able to keep our current offensive capability while being able to do these new effects, but this would almost certainly be viewed as making us too strong.)


Basically, I envision combat medics to fill both the cleric and wizard roles from standard fantasy adventures. They should be great healers, have significant impacts on battles, but not simply be raw damage dealers. They should change battle by being in it, but if confronted by a standard combat class, lose. They should be *combat* *medics*, in that they are at home in combat while not really being a standard fighter.


I do not want to be a giant stim dispenser, nor do I want to be a walking nuclear bomb. I want to have a unique role in combat, which is able to do special effects which are useful, and completely unlike anything any other "normal" combat class can do. This might make us a "support role", but I do not want to be typecasted into a "sit here, cute little combat medic, while the real combatants take care of this, just be sure to heal me once in a while and don't get in the way" position.


We already have poisons and diseases, but I want to be able to do more than that. I want a group to say "why do we need a rifleman, we have a pistoleer, a bounty hunter, and a fencer? We might already have a doctor, but let's find a combat medic to round out this party." I would like the damage per second comparison to be possible for a combat medic, but irrelevant in judging the value of the class.


If this were implemented, it might make my character individually much weaker. However, this is a MMORPG, and that is what groups is for. And ultimately, I think what we might lose in being able to do stuff individually will be compensated by the increase in complexity of the game and combat.
jfang
Thu May 06, 2004 3:36 pm
#6

I forgot to add that currently, as poisons and diseases stand, fillsmy idea very well. Since it does constant damage, it is very weak were "normal" combatants are strong (taking out a group of 4 storm troopers), and very strong where "normal" combatants is weak (in PvP combat, and against heavy armor 80% resist mobs).
Marek102
Thu May 06, 2004 5:06 pm
#7

I am old school firm believer in the MMORPG holy trinity of Healer-Nuker-Tanker.


Current state of game make that irrelevant since everyone can be mega Tanker with Buff and good enough Healer with Stim-B.


But ONCE Combat balance is done, and healing mean something in combat, then I for one see CM as healer first and nuker distant second.


Isee CM as other half of Doctor in combat. Better than Doctor in damage healing to a point where most people would PREFER to have CM instead of Doctor when hunting.


I would prefer after combat balance where no group can survive in advanced/elder planet like dantooine/dathomir/endor/yavin-4 without a healer. They would prefer CM as healer but Doctor can do the job if he had to. Ofcourse it would be SO MUCH better if group can have both Doctor and CM.


I would prefer that healing in group is SO important that CM would just have no time to nuke even if there are Both Master CM & Master Doc in group.


There are dozens of profession that canplay the role ofTank or Nuker.


Only two can play the role of Healer


So I think CM should play the role of healer.

RhenGordon
Thu May 06, 2004 10:22 pm
#8


My opinion involves diversity.


I took Combat Medic/Doctor because I wanted to be the best healer in the game I can possibly be. In my play style I am a healer first and an attacker second.


Having said that, I have played many other MMORPG that the healer is essentially a push-over in combat. EQ, and DAOC come to mind. In EQ at least you HAD to have a cleric to go after the tougher things, in this game a healer is not needed for anything.


A player can pick up Novice Medic some powerful stim B's and they can heal themselves almost as good as a combat medic can heal them. Everyone has some medic essentially in this game right now, a Doctor is a buff-bot and a CM is a poisoner. Neither are really needed for their healing skills.


I remember in the early days of the game, as a CM/DOC, I could go hunt Krayt dragons with a group and has the only healer in the group, I could keep 10 people fully healed, ressed, buffed, and their state effects removed. When you have a 10 - 1 ratio attackers to healers in a game it is clear there is no need for healers.


It is nice being aCM in this game though, that is because I have teeth, you want to take me on? Fine, you will kill me I am sure, but you will spend some time in the cantina for your efforts, and maybe if I get lucky enough with the small combat skill I do have, I might beat you.


What do I see as the role of CM? I see the role of the CM as being the profession that makes the enemy plan a little better. What I mean is this: If you take CM away, you will find that everyone will have the best armor, buffs and foods they need to stay alive against health and action damage. They will gear their defenses against the only other class that effectively attacks mind and that is riflemen, they will build up heavily in order to stay alive against them.


The in combat it becomes a case of offense against offense, or Unreal Tournament that you pay to play. Everyone will be running and shooting, without any thought to anything else that might bother them in the game. Since everyone can heal a little, no Doctors will be found on the battle field because face it state effects do jack crap nothing.


Enter the combat medic, and the real reason why everyone wants to nerf us. We make people think beyond the best armor, best heals in the game since we cancel all the millions of points in armor that you have. You have to do something else with that 35 points of filling instead of putting it all in state defense. That is what the CM is all about. Put the CM back in the game and doctors become necassary since they are the only ones that cure.


You see, the model is sound and strong, fix some of the bugs, provide a couple of additional ways to defend and the game will be fine with no other changes needed.


Message Edited by RhenGordon on 05-06-2004 10:23 PM



>~~~~~~~ Rhen Gordon Master Combat Medic / Master Doctor ~~~~~~~
Ahazi Server
Selling Doctor and Combat Medic Medicines.
I am located on Naboo in the city of Lake Destiny not far from Keren.
Look me up on the planetary map, or look for Lakeside General on the map.
NOW ALSO ON CORELLIA NEAR CORONET, LOOK FOR ME ON THE MAP!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
nvoigt
Fri May 07, 2004 3:44 am
#9

I am a CM because I wanted to play a healer in combat. For me, a Combat Anything is someone who has gone through combat drill and is now able to perform his craft under combat conditions. He is not trained in weapons and destruction any more than a normal soldier.


I think in theory CM covers this concept just fine. You have a medic base, then add the soldier part of real combat experience and you are a medic that can operate in combat conditions. For me, that's it. No extra attacks come from that. With that under your belt, it's easier to pick up a weapon skill your fellow soldiers have. Even that is covered by CM because you already have marksman.


In my oppinion, every healing from a non-combat medic should be halved for each participant in combat: target in combat: half heal, healer in combat: half heal, both in combat: quarter heal. That would solve a lot of problems. It would give us the role we were named after: combat medic. It would make novice medic/stim B for everyone less viable though not impossible. It would give us an edge over doctors in combat.


We can take a combat profession on top of CM, the base is already there. What I really don't want to see are offensive weapons from the CM profession. I would like to play a combat medic like Eugene Roe from Band of Brothers, not some WWI gas trooper or even a WWII SS Guard. I am a medic, not a terrorist.


Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Fri May 07, 2004 4:23 am
#10

Even though diversity is a tricky concept I'd rather like to say I'd prefer to be balanced between the two.

The concept of a pure battlefield healer as it is envisoned in the 21th century battlefield medic is not a Combat Medic, that is a role allready filled by the capabilities of the Master Medic.


So really there is little need for us to be battlefield healers.


However, we do have unique abilities that gives us an advantage in the field. Namely ranged and area heals. These we should keep and we should, to make the balance between offensive and healing schematics in our profession more even we should get more healing capabilities. After all, people want us to be healers.

The problem is that any healing capability we get will be an intrusion into the Doc profession. Now, that probably won't be very popular. However, it is needed unless we should go the other way and focus entirely on damage dealing.


We need to get to share some (not all, but some) of the doctors state cures. I suggest perhaps Poison, Dizzy, Fire and Blind. Leaving the rest (I'm not sure of exactly which states doctors get to cure but Disease, Stun and perhaps Intimidate should be among these, right?)


Diseases must be reworked BTW, they are too slow but when they eventually tick they are too powerfull (except that they don't go beyond buffed stats) some compromise here must be found.


I like poisons the way they are. I think they are a bit too weak in PvE, but they do help against mid sized opponents like stormtroopers. However they are a problem in PvP (or rather, the HAM-system is a problem in PvP). I can agree that the power of poisons might have to be toned down. The full 75% is ridiculous though. That would require combat medics to have huge piles of pre-nerf venom to be effective in PvP. somewhere between 25-50% might be acceptable though.


Another role should be assigned to Combat Medics though, as a compensation for making poison heals more easy to come by (giving us ranged and area poison heals) and lowering poison damage. We ought to have more diverse attacks.


I'd like to see poisons causing states (Blind, Stun, Intimidate, perhaps even dizzy) and maybe nausea (which means vomiting must become more than an emote though. maybe loosing a round of combat for puking as well as a posture change)

We could get hallucinogens that affect the players ability to target their opponents.


All these changes call for working defenses against poisons though. There definitiely should be easy (though not free) ways of gaining up to about 50% poison resistance through ordinary means and then loots should be able to provide another 25-30%

I think some professions, Combat Medics of course, and perhaps Doctors,but also Bounty Hunters (face it they need a perk) should be given extra protection in form of both resistances and mitigation for poison and disease effects. (BH should get lower though of course)


So there we have it, a well rounded Offensive and Defensive Combat Medic, reduced somewhat in power in some areas but increased in others.



Carbicide: "The victimless crime!"
BTW Yes it is true, I've tested it myself, poison only ticks once every TEN seconds!

"I lead with my intellect, wits, example and the big nasty gun that I use to shoot everyone who doesn't follow my orders"
Rennec Bibo, proud owner of some sort of carbine since november 2003.
IlyaMasool
Fri May 07, 2004 7:07 am
#11

I remember this question being asked way back when

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=18726&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

although I think we used the word "Dev's vision" instead of "role".

And there were some nifty discussion between Pahdbacca, Zarlor and Vortexala about it I think.

And ofcourse there was that CM Manefesto by Pahdbacca which is very worth a read.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=18538&highlight=#M18538

I think this question will always be asked since SoE tried a profession that can heal good and also can attack well and now they are stuck with it.
DommTrain
Fri May 07, 2004 9:48 pm
#12






SioBabble wrote:

What should the combat medic's role be?


1. Healing on the battlefield in ways docs cannot (ranged and AOE damage healing)


2. Combat support with poisons and diseases, which should be insidious, not overpowering.


I honestly think that we've got these two now, but factors beyond our control (buffs making promiscuous use of composite possible with no degredation in combat power possible) cause us to appear to be overpowering dominators of the PvP battlefield. Mainly because our moderate attacks seem devatastaing when we can get past composite armor and other damage dealers, with far greater raw power, cannot.


Alone, we are nothing in PvP. We can "damage from beyond the grave" but only if our victim is unprepared or does not have their wits about them.Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who panic at the first tick of disease or poison, and this gives us psychological power far beyond our real power against a determined, prepared opponent. Pretty much how an MCH who calls out a rancor can psych out someone unprepared for it and win.


Those who have learned, though, and know we're there and know how to defeat us do not fear us, but respect us.


The psychological impact of CMs on the contemporary SWG battlefield is devastating. Between us and the other mind damage dealing profs, we do hold dominance. Mainly because other profs can't get past composite armor like we can. If it were not for the trival ability to wear composite, we'd be seen more as annoyances than serious threats.








I agree, a lot of it is a psychological factor, most people when they get hit by disease or poison panic, I ve only seen a few that know how to get around disease and poison well.
TaeRocko
Sat May 08, 2004 3:12 am
#13

From a healing perspective, I think that the combat medic profession needs to distance itself from the doctor and medic professions. I think a great way of doing this is having CM stims heal all 3 HAM pools. This really isn't a doctor/cm issue since there is no additional injury treatment achieved in the doctor profession.

The way I see it, CM's should be the ultimate in damage healing and docs the ultimate in wound healing. The docs already have the wound healing with all the wound treatment and treatment speed in the profession, so I think CM's should get a bigger bump in healing capabilities. Since in healing potential, master doctor isn't more effective than master medic, giving CM the ability to heal mind with stims creates a more significant difference in healing potential. I think this would bring healing differences between a novice and elite profession more in line with how combat compares between novice and elite professions.

Do I like poisons/diseases? Sure, they are very effective (I have yet to use any of my spider venom - I see them as ridiculous not only in how they compare to what CM's can craft, but also how dramatically they change the final disease/poison pack), but the main reason I liked the poisoning/diseasing was the uniqueness it brought to the class. DOT weapons have removed that a bit. I wouldn't mind seeing CM's take a damage hit with poisons/diseases. But there must be compensation.

When I first heard of the spider venom, I hated what it would do, and I stated I wished they had given us new schematics to apply state effects to targets.

Honestly, I would give up all poisons/diseases for significant healing perks (CM's being the only ones with stims that heal the mind pool) and significant abilities to apply states (dizzy, stun, intimidate and blind) - i.e. more efficiently than any of the other profession's attacks.

I've got more to say, but Mild-Breeze-Trooper pretty much hit those points pretty well.

-tae



----------------------------

Taeimoe - retired BH 2/4/4/4

Master Doctor/Master Blender
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