Combat Medic Archive

This is not a discussion about the power of poisons, diseases, bugs, or strengthor weaknesses of combat medics in PvP and PvE combat. This is meant to be an comment about the interpretation and possible misinterpretationof results in PvP combat.

Assuming for now that combat medic poisons and diseases are overpowered (which may or may not be true), and assuming for now that cures and preventative measures for poisons and disease are not adequate (which may or may not be true), combat medics do not have an "I win" button as everybody keeps saying. What they would have in that case is a "you lose" button.

The distinction may seen trivial to thevictim, but is very important to the combat medic. Winning implies you do not die: you keep your buffs, you keep your faction,your items do not decay. Winning implies not needing to head to a clone center or being revived by a doctor. As I and almost every other combat medic who has everPvP'd before, just because you toss a poison is no guarantee that you will live through the encounter. This is why you frequently hear the argument"a master musician has more defenses than we do", people are trying to explain that combat medic death is a very real and common occurence.

Very frequently people they can and dotake down the combat medic while poisoned and diseased. This doesn't mean that the encounter was a draw, or that somehow one side or the other won. In a game such as SWG where there are huge losses from dying (buffs lost, lost time, lost faction) but relatively little gain from killing another (a few faction points and ego boost), it is entirely possible for an encounter to end up with no winners, just losers. Would be victims see that they die, and automatically assume that because they "lost" (died and lost a lot of things) the combat medic must have "won" (be somehow better off now than before), which is very wrong.

Combat medics most certainly do not have an "I win" button. If they did, literally *everybody* would be a combat medic, as this in essence would be a god mode. (Despite how it might appear, there are relatively few combat medics around, based on the last census published.) They *might* have a "you lose" button (which is another discussion for another time), and there is a very big difference between the two.

Lol, true. Combat Medic stuff in PvP is more of a "Pyrrhic Victory."

I know I've gotten killed everytime I've gone PvPing after a while. And I don't really get any faciton, b/c my poisons and diseases don't give me credit for a kill...usually someone else deals the deathblow. CMs have the ability to contribute to the "end" of a PvP battle...but that's about it.

Edit: It's like playing Pool. I lose a game to my friend when I scratch on the 8-ball. He beats me in pool when he calls his 8-ball shot and makes it. There's a big distinction between the two.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never piss off a healer. They know how you're put together...they can just as easily take you apart."
Kiarda Kismet
Master (in order) - Medic, Doctor, Teras Kasi, Smuggler, Carbinier, Marksman, Artisan, Architect, Combat Medic, Pistoleer, Scout, Squad Leader, Image Designer, Entertainer, Dancer, Brawler, Fencer, Merchant, Pikeman, Swordsman, Creature Handler, Rifleman, Ranger, Bounty Hunter, Commando, Musician. Droid Engineer.
Unlocked 6/5/04

I have a comment from personal experience. I use to be a combat medic, and as such I knew that I would be targetted and killed quite often. What I use to do to avoid decay was leave everything at home or in the bank and use some cheap clothes and my poisons. When I knew where I was pvping I would clone in the nearest clone centre and start poison spamming my enemies, sure I died a ton but the simple fact is that even if your enemy tries to leave you incapped so your not clone spamming poisons all they have to do is disconnect for a sec, which makes you autoclone when incapped, and your back in action. I dont know any other profession that is just as effective unbuffed as a combat medic is. Not trying to start a flame with anyone just pointing out some common tactics employed by many combat medics. I am sure with all things they will add area cures, or innoculations, or special spices that resist poisons, but it is hard waiting for the devs to get off their asses and figure this one out. The one solution I have found is organized pvp events in private locations that do not allow combat medics to participate, or do not allow mind single target or AoE poisons.

So very true of our sad profession. More often than not we become kamikazee bombers meaning dropping our payloads (poison/disease) comes ahead of all else. I do not get asked to come to a base defense/attack or other mission for my other combat profession which is rifleman. Instead I'm asked to bring my nastiest poison available (not even a whisper about bringing area stims) then then ordered to charge into the mist and be some cheap piece of cannon fodder.

I do not agree with the triple incap bug although from what I've seen the devs are going to have a sec of a time trying to reprogram and fix that one due to its nature. I do not like being the first to die even though my job is fundamentally important.I have assisted in killing many many rebels in the past but I can count the number of single death blows I given with my fingers alone. I wish I could have a "I win" button but with rifleman alone I just can't compete against defense stackers or anyone with 2 combat professions. I cant even get credit in missions for healing my own team.

I have high hopes for the combat revamp. After all what else do I have to hope for....

Just because the common CM dies frequently in a battle does not mean the profession is not overpowered. http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=34681proves my point, 1 CM being able to make every single person in an area useless.

"Those who live by the sword get shot by those who live by the gun."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never piss off a healer. They know how you're put together...they can just as easily take you apart."
Kiarda Kismet
Master (in order) - Medic, Doctor, Teras Kasi, Smuggler, Carbinier, Marksman, Artisan, Architect, Combat Medic, Pistoleer, Scout, Squad Leader, Image Designer, Entertainer, Dancer, Brawler, Fencer, Merchant, Pikeman, Swordsman, Creature Handler, Rifleman, Ranger, Bounty Hunter, Commando, Musician. Droid Engineer.
Unlocked 6/5/04

It is easier not to die now, than ever before.

90/40 Armor

Imperial PSG

2500+ Doctor Buffs

Entertainer Buffs

Foodssuch asBrandy, Vercupti, Canape, Synthsteak, Thakitillo, etc.

Spices for Emergencies, Muon or Pixie.

Other benefits like a SL in the group or a SL bot using /formup and /retreat.

As a doc/cm, who needs defenses when I have all of the above? I feel fairly indestructible with the above setup.

Not everyone has all of the above going for them and no doubt it costs a bundle of credits. But the fact is, there are people out there with the resources and desire, taking advantage of the above on a daily basis.

I remember when we were fairly easy kills. While we may have been able to take people down, we were susceptible to a quick death ourselves. However, that's not necessarily the case anymore. With all this 'stuff', it is not difficult to outlast anyone, in my opinion.

I hope you can see what the underlying problem is. I am not saying it's the CMs, it's all this 'stuff' that basically let's us overcome our supposed weaknesses, i.e. defenses.

Same with Rifleman...they're supposed to be high powered, but have fairly poor defenses (x2.5 modifier to be hit, little to no status/posture defenses, etc), but with all this 'stuff', who needs those?

Fencer, supposed to be a defense oriented class. High defenses, low offense.Acklay stun batons and scatter hit, need I say more?

Their intention was a checks and balances system, but with the influx of all these things, you are able to overcome the supposed weakness yourprofession wassupposed to have. Are HAM costs an issue with buffs and food?

We're (fairly easily)able to overcome the deficiencies in our professions.

That's the problem.

Dang you just got my vote. Best writne peice I have seen in a long time.

Very nicely written peace, i definitely agree with it.

Radiant

Dacee Dustrunner

Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid i'll take over.


office job + SWG + no exercise = fatass

One of the problems is that these days PvP has become a much longer affair. With armor, buffs, and foods it can take 5-10 minutes to kill someone 1v1, even using jawas and stun damage. This is fine and actually adds a touch of strategy to PvP as you have more time to use states and such. Your weapons and armor decay a little faster but thats ok. The problem is that poisons are not effected by armor and equipment and strategy. With the equipment these days It may take several minutes to take down a well prepared CM, but the poison will render you useless in a matter of seconds. They wouldn't be such a problem if somehow they scaled poisons with the speed of combat these days, but that is not the case.

~Enaw~ [PV/XF Da 800g3ym@n] <RebelemO FactKr>

To begin with, the devs likely agree with you. There is a mind poison mitigation spice coming out, which will undoubtably change the timing of combat, as you rightly pointed out.

Second, you are correct that poisons do not scale to the situations of combat and to the timing of combat, but that is what makes them special. Because they are a constant, they are effective where conventional weapons are not (80% resist armor, high HAM or regeneration opponents), and ineffective where conventional attacks work well. I am of the opinion that this is intentional design by the devs.

Third, poisons are not exceptionally strong in general combat. They are very effective in causing a first death, which is why people think they need a nerf. (http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=32907)If you remove the 2000+ buffs, which in turn remove the 80% resistance armors (encumberance), you will find that poisons in PvP combat are not nearly as effective as one might think. In my experiences, against non-buffed opponents (after they clone), my poisons never ticked fast enough to make them effective weapons (I would do 0-1 ticks worth of damage before the opponent was dead from weapons fire).

You say that combat is lasting 5-10 minutes which is good, and poisons are too strong. I would argue that combat is taking too long, and conventional weapons are too ineffective against buffed players, and that poisons and standard attacks are not abnormally balanced for non-2000+ buffed combatant.

You can weaken poisons, but that is justpatching the symptoms of the problem rather than the cause of it. I would prefer to see how the long term solution pans out (the combat revamp), than trying to patch one more problem (as something else will likely come up which needs to be dealt with). Not to mention that a mind poison mitigation spice is coming soon, who knows how PvP will be affected...

Incidentally,a poison can not take a well prepared person down in seconds. Even if you do not include a doctor as part of being well prepared (which I would argue is part of "well prepared"), a prepared person who is just using brandy would take something like a minute or more (calculations below). And against a combat medic who has no combat defenses, a minute is a fair amount of time to dizzy-kd (or posture down to avoid food buffs), and kill them. With the introduction of the mind poison mitigation spice, you will have even more time to have your poison treated, or time to kill the offending combat medic, although as noted before, that is of minorcomfort to the would be victim.

Numbers used: 1000 mind + 800 yields 1800 mind. 1400 willpower (encumberance) will regenerate maybe 300 over time this time, so about 2100 mind to wear through. At 450 a tick for an area mind poison, this is about 5 ticks, or a minute. If you include canape and/or muon gold, it increases, and if you stack poisons it decreases... This does not factor in the use of Halva (PvP breaking, as noted to the devs)