Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Combat Medic/Doctor, a possible solution to the imbalance/PVP aspects.
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Telakyte
Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:13 pm
#1
I've heard so many arguements for and against the changes to CM/Doc etc.
Have to admit I think alot of changes were good, just as many bad.
Here's an idea that's been running in my mind for a bit though. Doctor long ago was considered a medcenter/camp profession to a degree, since wound healing etc. is done there. The CM for a time was likewise considered adapt to in field medicine useage.
The game mechanics have changed drastically since then, and with the arrival of the DoT wars in full force, one must also notice the surge in doctor templates to compensate.
This has thus turned Doctor into an "infield" medical unit. Something drastically different from what one would think. Especially since it negates the CM to merely a Chemical Warfare specialist.
My suggestion is to neither nerf, nor enhance one profession. Rather to increase the original environment for both.
Give the Combat Medic a pack such as a "Poison/Disease Stabilizer Pack" (and the like for each other type of DoT*. THIS DOES NOT CURE THE EFFECT. Rather all it does is what a CM usually would do in such cases. Treat the injury/effect until the patient is able to get to a medical center/camp. This Pack would simply stop a tick, but not cure, thereby leaving the actual curing to a Doctor.
Because of this you could see how a CM would be a viable medical unit, without even touching a doctor's CURE ability. The packs would be timed, so they would lose affect, and would have to be used repeatedly until the patient reaches a doctor. Otherwise the Tick continues and the patient dies.
This would counter the new "Offensive/Doc" templates that are so FOTM, and refute the arguement that CMs get kicked out of the medical arena for the large part.
This would also bring about a new concept of In field camps, needed near a battle, for doctors to remain to treat the DoT'd. Now this concept isn't perfect, there's plenty of room for enhancements, ideas. etc. So give your input CMs. I'll be posting this in the Doc arena once I see the response to this.
Message Edited by Telakyte on 08-30-2004 09:15 PM
La-grange
Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:09 am
#2
Telakyte wrote:
I've heard so many arguements for and against the changes to CM/Doc etc.
Have to admit I think alot of changes were good, just as many bad.
Here's an idea that's been running in my mind for a bit though. Doctor long ago was considered a medcenter/camp profession to a degree, since wound healing etc. is done there. The CM for a time was likewise considered adapt to in field medicine useage.
The game mechanics have changed drastically since then, and with the arrival of the DoT wars in full force, one must also notice the surge in doctor templates to compensate.
This has thus turned Doctor into an "infield" medical unit. Something drastically different from what one would think. Especially since it negates the CM to merely a Chemical Warfare specialist.
My suggestion is to neither nerf, nor enhance one profession. Rather to increase the original environment for both.
Give the Combat Medic a pack such as a "Poison/Disease Stabilizer Pack" (and the like for each other type of DoT*. THIS DOES NOT CURE THE EFFECT. Rather all it does is what a CM usually would do in such cases. Treat the injury/effect until the patient is able to get to a medical center/camp. This Pack would simply stop a tick, but not cure, thereby leaving the actual curing to a Doctor.
Because of this you could see how a CM would be a viable medical unit, without even touching a doctor's CURE ability. The packs would be timed, so they would lose affect, and would have to be used repeatedly until the patient reaches a doctor. Otherwise the Tick continues and the patient dies.
This would counter the new "Offensive/Doc" templates that are so FOTM, and refute the arguement that CMs get kicked out of the medical arena for the large part.
This would also bring about a new concept of In field camps, needed near a battle, for doctors to remain to treat the DoT'd. Now this concept isn't perfect, there's plenty of room for enhancements, ideas. etc. So give your input CMs. I'll be posting this in the Doc arena once I see the response to this.
Message Edited by Telakyte on 08-30-2004 09:15 PM
Hmmm. Amazing what happens when you tell everyone to become a doc to counter you.
Brainplay
Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:07 am
#3
You realize this was alot like what was planned for the smuggler spice Liik. Instead of putting it on hold though it was going to mitigate it. The bonus was that it could be used by ANYONE.
somerandomuser wrote:
interesting..
so are you suggesting that the poison timer gets put on hold for the duration of the stabilization then picks up where it left off??
example:
health poison (duration 300 seconds) lands on target.. does damge..
30 seconds later CM applies 2 minute stabilization pack..
Poison damage gets put on 'hold' for the next 120 seconds at which point it will pick up again with 270 seconds remaining..
is that an accurate summation (with fictional numbers).. of how you intend this to work?
also.. what about re-application of poison.. or stacking of poison.. would these function as short term immunities to stacked/reapplied poisons.. or would you need to reapply the stabilization??
also do you figure on making them single target or area
and will they be ranged or rangeless??
very interesting idea.. i can't say as i 'support' it in its' present form.. as i see some things that would need to be clarified.. but conceptually i think it is worth pursuing
Havoclord
Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:27 am
#4
Very sensible approach...
I think that one of the difficulties is that Doctor and Combat Medic were constructed along the lines of the White Mage / Black Mage in a traditional fantasy RPG where one healed and the other dished-out damage.
The truth is, as it stands right now, apart from Mind Heal & Area Poisons & Diseases, CM doesn't give a lot.
I'm currently a Master CM and Master Doctor because I normally adopt a support role in my guild (of over 100 members) but if I was a lone-wolf, I would have dropped CM.
Your suggestion is great (5 stars) but I feel that CMs need something else to keep them viable - especially when the Combat Rebalance finally comes.
Perhaps CMs should have more Field Medic capabilities? Establishing medical camps and field hospitals perhaps?
Let's see!
somerandomuser
Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:17 pm
#5
interesting..
so are you suggesting that the poison timer gets put on hold for the duration of the stabilization then picks up where it left off??
example:
health poison (duration 300 seconds) lands on target.. does damge..
30 seconds later CM applies 2 minute stabilization pack..
Poison damage gets put on 'hold' for the next 120 seconds at which point it will pick up again with 270 seconds remaining..
is that an accurate summation (with fictional numbers).. of how you intend this to work?
also.. what about re-application of poison.. or stacking of poison.. would these function as short term immunities to stacked/reapplied poisons.. or would you need to reapply the stabilization??
also do you figure on making them single target or area
and will they be ranged or rangeless??
very interesting idea.. i can't say as i 'support' it in its' present form.. as i see some things that would need to be clarified.. but conceptually i think it is worth pursuing
so are you suggesting that the poison timer gets put on hold for the duration of the stabilization then picks up where it left off??
example:
health poison (duration 300 seconds) lands on target.. does damge..
30 seconds later CM applies 2 minute stabilization pack..
Poison damage gets put on 'hold' for the next 120 seconds at which point it will pick up again with 270 seconds remaining..
is that an accurate summation (with fictional numbers).. of how you intend this to work?
also.. what about re-application of poison.. or stacking of poison.. would these function as short term immunities to stacked/reapplied poisons.. or would you need to reapply the stabilization??
also do you figure on making them single target or area
and will they be ranged or rangeless??
very interesting idea.. i can't say as i 'support' it in its' present form.. as i see some things that would need to be clarified.. but conceptually i think it is worth pursuing
Telakyte
Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:35 pm
#7
As to the first questions mentioned: The packs would have to be constantly reapplied in cases of stacking etc. Why? Simply because it cancels a"one shot cures all" event. Some work should be required to treat them. But, so as not to cause a headache, and to also utilize the unique ability CM's havetheStable pack will be Ranged. Thusranged Stable pack affects all within CM's radius and keeps the CM busy "healing," while also allowing them to partake of their chemical warefare talent.
The assessment of the LightMage/DarkMage, yes, sadly that's what was more than likely the forerunner. However CM's do get ranged stims. These would be even more apparent if not for buffs etc. and the lack of taking consider damage to the HA in most fights PVP/PVE. I do however hope that to change in the fabled combat revamp. If it did, the Stable packs, along with Ranged stims would make the CM a powerful in field medic, as the name would suggest.
In regard to making Medical Camps? I really don't want to start tramping on Ranger and Scout's territory since their camps already allow forhealing etc. They were meant to be theestablishers of in field camps/healing areas sothere's little reason to add camps to another professoin. Also you run into the situation of who should make them: docs or CMs? A war's a brewing with that concept. Best to keep as much as possible without disadvantaging rangers/scouts all the more lol.
Final note: This is not a concept from a true Master of the Doctor/CM profession. I'm merely an observer trying to offer some bit of realism and equal opportunity to both professions currently ingame. I'm doing this because right now my area of expertise, WAR, is being influenced dramatically by this current situation. Therefore I'm calling on all True Masters of the profession to comment and give their knowledge etc. to assist in this endeavor. Thank you.
Ternque01
Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:42 pm
#8
To the original poster:that is a great idea about the poison/disease stabilizer packs. However after the recent doc changes you would make poisoning/diseasing someone that much harder than it already is. On the whole it would be nice for CMs to have some degree of poison/disease damage control on the battlefield.
All in all it reminds me of the Red vs Blue (www.redvsblue.com - funny show using the Halo graphics engine - great acting) conversation about medics when someone gets their toe blown off.
Guy: "Holy ****! Can't you treat him?"
Medic: "Nope, I'm only a medic"
Guy: "That's what medics do! Treat people!"
Medic: "Nope, those people are called doctors... Medics are people who can only make you feel better *pause*while you die."
rhaspede
Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:11 pm
#9
I've noticed the same problem; doctors do the majority of battlefield healing now. Allow me to elaborate...
During a fight:
States get applied to you. You want the states cured, you have to find a doctor.
You catch on fire. You want the fire cured, you have to find a doctor.
You get poisoned. You want the poison cured, you have to find a doctor.
You get diseased. You want the disease cured, you have to find a doctor.
You take mind damage. You want your mind damage healed, you have to find a combat medic.
Health and action damage can both be cured by novice medics so those two categories are kinda moot.
State cures come in packs with 25-30 charges on them. So a doc can presumably cure states 25-30 times during a battle.
Fire cures come in blankets with 35-40 charges on them. So a doc can presumably cure fire 35-40 times during a battle.
Poison cures usually come in packs with 25-30 charges on them. So a doc can presumably cure poison 25-30 times during a battle.
Disease cures usually come in packs with 25-30 charges on them. So a doc can presumably cure disease 25-30 times during a battle.
MInd healing can be done by a buffed combat medic about 15 times before their mind is toowounded to do it anymore.
As you can see, doctors are now much more effective at keeping teammates alive and effective in battle than combat medics are.
I like the idea of giving cm's poison/disease stabalizer packs. Either make them work as specualted by the original poster, or maybe make them "slow" the effects of the poison. ie, instead of the poison ticking every 10 seconds, make it 15 seconds or so. (If that were to be the case, I think the disease timer should be 10 seconds as well.) Give the cm something to the make them a valued healer in battle. As is stands now, the only thing we have going for us is a limited mind heal and poison/disease. I also think the state cures should be ours, and some kind of fire suppressant should be ours as well. Not the ability to cure it, but maybe the ability to dampen it down to like25-50% of it's original power.
somerandomuser
Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:15 am
#10
Brainplay wrote:
You realize this was alot like what was planned for the smuggler spice Liik. Instead of putting it on hold though it was going to mitigate it. The bonus was that it could be used by ANYONE.
nope had no idea.. don't pay much attention to smuggler/spice stuff..
Speco
Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:37 am
#11
I like the idea of having some kinds of 'counter' to the CM poisons... in fact.... PvP has 'de'vovled into Poison/Disease vs. Poison/Disease wars....throw in some (Dizzy)Knock Downs and Riflemen Heatshots and u got a complete battle ....
Adding CM counters will will certainly bring some variety to PvP combat....and keep it interesting....
Alluding to the guy who pointed out the Doctor's role....... he is right on the money... accept imo Doctor's are far too central to the game.....
NO Doc... no PvP for more than 30 secs......
Give Plyers more base stats... then have Doc's add 20/30% on top.... currently Doc's add 4/500% to your non mind stats...
If you could log in fresh or run out from a Cloner and have half a chance to fight... PvP would be much more enjoyable overall...
Give Plyers more (faster) mind buffing options.... Waiting for a Dancer then Musician... then Food/Spice buffing the mind is too time consuming ..plus the food/spice buffs durations are pittifully short vs. Doc Buffing....
Balance the mind buff methods vs. the number and strength of mind attack's......Everyone attacks the mind... ignores all other stats ......hmmmm.... balancing is needed in this area...
Lastly.........Take Temporary Enemy Flag status out of PVP..........Only Declared faction players may attack (be attacked).........Get rid of the system where one or two guys Declare and then a mass of blue dots wait to jump in..... this sucks....
Speco <TA>
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