Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Combat Medics Enhance PVP Strategy in SWG

Jacquelyn
Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:45 pm
#1


Before brawlers were fixed, many people were pistoleers, riflemen, bounty hunters, or carbineers. When they engaged in combat, they would stand at point blank range and spam their best specials. People often complained about the PVP system indicating that there was no strategy involved.


When they fixed brawlers, people realized that brawlers were much more powerful than ranged professions up close. Rather than backing up and running around everyone cried nerf. When the nerf did not occur, ranged professions eventually got smart and learned to use some strategy. They began using specials that would allow them to keep their distance. (Suppression fire and other posture changing specials.) Terrain and buildings became strategic considerations. Thus, a level of strategy was born.


Another major impact on strategy in SWG was the emergence of buffs, heavy armors, chef foods, weapon enhancements, slices and spices. As people began to explore all the elements they could use to prepare themselves, a detailed level of preparedness became another element to strategy.


One of the issues at this point was that Docs, Dancers, Musicians and rangers did not have much if any role in PVP other than providing a buff beforehand to individual players. This was solved with the Combat medic. Before CM’s people could just cluster up in a group and mow down anything that crossed their path. As a result of CM’s, people were forced to spread out, creating more 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 encounters in group PVP. Also CM’s drew Docs out of the hospitals and starports and into the battlefields since it required a doctor to cure poison and disease. Docs cannot heal mind wounds from disease, so smart PVP groups started taking Master Dancers and Master Musicians along with them to heal their mind wounds. A nice side effect is that while they were healing up, the entire group could also get the associated mind buffs.


Unfortunately, many PVPers still have not adapted to the impact of the CM’s in the same way that the ranged professions did not immediately adapt to the brawler. Instead of using planning and strategy, (getting dancers, musicians and docs involved, creating a "fallback" point, etc) they just want to curse the CM, die, and then complain that CM’s ruin PVP.


Of course if they would just include these other professions in their strategy, then they would not have to die all the time, and PVP would essentially last longer due to people regrouping and using their fallback points. If done correctly, this would result in allot fewer deaths, and it would actually result in sustained PVP over time. Of course there will always be those who will never adapt.


BTW I am a Master Bounty Hunter.

Marrow1
Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:07 pm
#2

Well, yes and no.


To make things a bit more balanced you would need at least some of the following.


1. Ranged poison/disease cures. At least in a small area.

2. Stims need mind damage healing

3. Longer tick between times a CM can toss poison/disease.

4. Somekind of disease/poison prevention system.Either docs get some inoculationpacks or armor gets somedisease/poison resistance.










__________[Marrow]__________
____[*aka Fringing, Babwe, Hurtz *]____

__/\_/\___/\_____[last of the known Doctor Correspondents]/\___/\_/\__
Gnuut
Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:08 pm
#3

CMs should get innoculation enhances. Docs don't need any more money.



Grau'din
Elder Combat Medic
Magnumus Mysterium MYST
I am not a support class.
I am a chemical warfare expert.
I am a bio-warrior.
I am a zerg-stopper.
I am a Master CM. Run for your life....

Bennyboy4308
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:44 pm
#4

I think CMs are kinda like what guns are in RL. They are the equalizers. A poison is just as effective on a fully buffed 90% armored uber template tank as it is on a unbuffed newbie with a CDEF.



~Enaw~ [PV/XF Da 800g3ym@n] <RebelemO FactKr>
saladin123
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:46 pm
#5

In some ways it does make it interesting, in some ways it doesnt. It doesnt because of the ability to throw through walls and farther than guns can shoot, and tripple incap decay, but those are all bugs ( I think, I have never been a cm) and are not intended to be there.. But when a cm knows that these are bugs, and deliberatly runs to the other side of town behind a building and starts flinging area poison and disease then it just makes your experiance worse. There is no way to "adapt" to something like that.



Havarian
Master Pirate

SaraeItha
Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:02 pm
#6

In regards to Docs being able to throw ranged or area cures, sure that would help eliminate the effects of combat medics, but so would a nerf or simply removing them from the game entirely. This thread was not inteded as a way of "changing" the system to eliminate the effects of the CM. This was intended to point out theavailable strategies that should be applied.


Why not give docs and area stim that makes people invulnerable to melee damage, or give them a ranged stim that makes it so they areinvulnerable to laser fire or flame throwers? It is the same concept.


Buy giving the doc ranged heals, you are requiring the doc to actually get in the middle of battle, putting you doc at great risk. In real war, docs generallyreside in "field hospitals" (I envision large ranger camps, think M.A.S.H. here) theyrarely go out into the midst of battle except perhaps in certain couragous endeavers and heal people while they are fighting. If someone sustains a wound or injury, combat medics and other people with drag abilitywill transport the patients to the docs. If the the patient if able theywill transport themselves tothe doctor for treatment. It would behighly inefficientfor a doc to be able to keep control of everyone's health, running all over the battlefieldto heal everyone while they are probably running elsewhere.


However I am not surprised thatmany people probably try to implement their doc strategy, just as you imply, running around chasing people in the midst of battle. That is probably why they are not successful. I have a TKM/MD toon on another server and I can most effectively heal people by staying in the camp with the dancers while people come to me for heal. If someone is running to me and they oviously need a heal It is much easier to keep control. I can cure their poison or disease and stim them back up withing seconds. If they took on a bad disease, a master medic and musician can heal that in no time.


Additionally, musicians and dancers do not need to be overt and do not get a TEF from healing and buffing people.





The professions of this game are like 32 spice fiends in the same room with a few fences. Everyone is screaming for their their fix. If you try to give everyone a little bump at the same time, nobody will be satisfied and the screaming will never end. If you single out each one really hook them up , you will slowly end the screaming. I know my turn is coming, but it still does not ease the pain of realizing I am nobody's favorite ho. XENOTKM/Master Gunfighter/Master Smuggler
AkamaiMoke
Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:22 am
#7

Very good point, Jacquelyn. That is what I envisioned; a group of combat types along with a few entertainers and maybe a ranger or two. After a battle, fall back and heal in the ranger's base camp.


There was more to my vision, but it has been clouded over reading all the anti-CM propaganda.


I agree with Marrow1 on all points except 2 and half of 4.


2. Mind heal is done by the CM. That is enough.


4. I can agree with Gnuut that CMs should provide the inoculation enhancements, but I can be convinced otherwise. I mean, the CM can cause the Disease/Poison, but not heal it. Why would they also be able to prevent it? But then, it would be nice to give CMs the ability to perform a service like the Docs. And it's not like the Docs need another income








Colain
mka
Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:37 am
#8






Jacquelyn wrote:


As a result of CM’s, people were forced to spread out, creating more 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 encounters in group PVP.





You really thing spreading out does any good when both sides field an equal number of CMs? It just takes maybe a minute longer for the CMs to apply their poisons/diseases to everyone on the battlefield, a minutein which everyone tries to chip away at the enmies' 90% comp and 3k HAM without any effect.


Docs don't do any good, unless you keep them by your side all the time or are one yourself. In large-scale PvP there just aren't enough Docs to effectively counter AE poisons and diseases.


I don't think CMs exclusively ruin PvP, but they don't do any good to the borked system either.



Jeswin Esqui - Master Smuggler - Master Commando - Master Pilot - Chimaera Galaxy
JediMasterZero
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:01 am
#9

/agree



in the real world there are maniacs that can and will use biological weapons against others...granted it's not sanctioned as "fair war" by the UN, but it happens. so, keep tossing your poisons, CM's...maybe the UN will "strongly condemn" your actions....hehehehe. what a joke.



CM's add another level of play to group warfare. makes it challenging.





Kyp Emique ~ Jedi Padawan
Pyk Sesom - Master Bounty Hunter

There is no emotion; there is peace. There is no ignorance; there is knowledge. There is no passion; there is serenity. There is no death; there is the Combat Upgrade.
Rikilii
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:39 am
#10






JediMasterZero wrote:

/agree



in the real world there are maniacs that can and will use biological weapons against others...granted it's not sanctioned as "fair war" by the UN, but it happens. so, keep tossing your poisons, CM's...maybe the UN will "strongly condemn" your actions....hehehehe. what a joke.



CM's add another level of play to group warfare. makes it challenging.







The simple fact of the matter is, anyone can pick up 4040 doctor in about3 hours, and still have plenty of SP to master a combat profession and even stack some extra defenses.


Any group that has about a third of its members with this kind of template will be almost totally impervious to CMs.





---------------------------------------------------

Ahazi: Tekhap Ybrae--Former CM and Homeless Nublar Extraordinaire.

TC: Avaro Tribec--Co-founder of the TC-GCW, and Self Proclaimed Leader of the Imperial Legions
Jacquelyn
Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:03 am
#11


It is obvious that you are failing because you clearly demonstrate that you have your docs running around with you. The strategies work because I was a member of the most respected and feared PVP guild on 2 different servers. We could change the course of battle for just about any offensive, regardless of who we were up against.


We had:


TKM/DOC


RIFLEMAN/DOC


CM/RIFLEMAN


BH


BH


SMUGGLER/MUSICIAN/PISTOLEER


CARBINEER/CHEF


DANCER/RIFLEMAN/?


We would frequently find ourselves up against superior forces. People used CM’s against us all the time, but with 2 docs, a Master Musician and a Master Dancer in our group we always had good mind buffs, and there was a good ratio of docs.


You claim that there are not enough docs for large scale PVP. Any guild leader should be able to get together a couple docs or have a ratio of people become docs. If you refuse to use strategy don’t go blaming others when you fail. I point out the available strategy. Do you want to use that strategy? No. Taking the time to prepare and tweak your group to be effective in PVP is allot of work. Spamming the boards with nerf cry requires little forethought.


I contribute the fact that we were the most feared guild to our understanding of the current dynamics of the game. We not only used CM’s to our advantage, but we also put together an effective unit to countering other CM’s. If you do not have the patience or forethought to prepare then you will fail. Of course there are probably many people want to have the game "dumbed" down for them so that well prepared units will not have any kind of edge. As a matter of fact, while we are at it lets just make everyone master marksman so they will all be the same and would not have to think. Of course that would be more like a first person shooter than an MMORPG

SioBabble
Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:33 am
#12

Jacquelyn,


HOW DARE YOU USE A CAREFULLY PLANNED GROUP OF PLAYERS, WORKING TOGETHER, AGAINST THE FPS L337s?


Don't you know how unfair, how exploitive that is?


Pardon my sarcasm, but geez, you expect the min/max (on an individual basis) crowd to give up some of their precious combat power in order to be effective as a team in PvP?


I /salute you and your fellow guildmates for applying brain power to the problem and pwning the crybabies.




Tazz vonMannstein Baron-Administrator of Corellia, master navigator of Corellia, captain of the Gregarious Gurreck

Sio Babble MBH/MCH/Cabana Boy; master of Tyson, the GNORT OF DEATH

Jeffn Akbar Nerfed from here to Lok MD/MCM

Zanti Agaesia Bothan MBE, 12 point Master Chef, Havoc Squadron Ace pilot


Gnuut
Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:50 pm
#13

What are you nerf-criers going to do when SOE puts NPC Combat Medics in the game?



Grau'din
Elder Combat Medic
Magnumus Mysterium MYST
I am not a support class.
I am a chemical warfare expert.
I am a bio-warrior.
I am a zerg-stopper.
I am a Master CM. Run for your life....

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