Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Terrain Negotiation
"so you use that logic for TKA, but what about swordsmen or pikemen? are they using their weapons as walking sticks?"
LMAO ! 
Although it would be nice, I have to agree with Viper. It's a scout skill. Suck it up fellow Teras Kasi. Choosing howwe spend our available points is what makes each of us unique. Ifwe want it we have to pay for it, but at least it isan option that is available to us.
First and foremost Terrain Negotiation has nothing to do with increasing your overall speed (and thats what we should ask for - an overall speed increase). It only increases the speed you run up hills. (Higher than 50 the modifier is applied to prone movement speed)
Secondly, TN is one of the few very useful skills that a Scout has unique to Scout. All of the professions that get this (except Combat Medic and I don't belive they should get it either) are partly based off of Scout. Any profession could come up with an argument (and several have) just as valid as any you could come up with to get Terrain Negotiation. Take the skill like anyone else. Thats what they gave us Skill Points for, to make it so everyone was different, not just a Master of everything.
yes, I am a Ranger.
Yes, I am biased, but in any discussion, I try to put aside my personal wants for the betterment of the Whole Game (I want to see what the bonus for TN beyond 100 is).
Nafaern wrote:
/sign
You want to know why Teras Kasi should get terrain negotiation? Who's more physically fit, the crocodile guy on TV or Jet Li? Maritial artists, through the vigor of regular training and stretching are FAST!! Doesn't make sense to master a martial art and run like Barney the Purple Dinosaur. Why should TKAs need to take scouting skills for terrain negotiation? Seems ludicrous to me and detracts from the "reality" of being a martial artist.
The reality is that martial artists spend their time in dojos, not taking hikes. The Art of War would tell you to select the terrain you fight on so it works to your advantage, not that you should be able to run up a hill faster then other people.
Xeranx,
Walking/Running faster is not the answer. Its not catching up to your prey that'll help you. There are a few things that will though:
1) The infamous "Out of Range" problem. This will be addressed and likely *fixed* with the added range it'll give us. We'll be able to hit those big lizards that constantly back up on you. There won't be any more range problem when standing ontop of a KDd enemy. It'll be fixed. Read the official post on combat changes.
2) Tactics. Oh my goodness...there is NO other profession that needs...NEEDS...tactics like we do. This really goes for all melee, but I'm not a pikeman. You simply MUST stop running after these people. If you let them kite you, you deserve to die....period. Take a little sidestep on the other side of the doorway/wall/tree. Make them come to you, most of the time, they will.......boom..dead.
3) If they adda running faster skill....Teras Kasi will start becoming the flavor of the month...many many months. You/we dont' want that. We've avoided that because most people don't know how to get unarmed xp very well, and it's hard when you do. We earn our power, we enjoy wielding it.
4) This will help you in real life too. Be Patient. The changes will happen, just takes names of people that best you because of game mechanics andchallenge them after it's all fixed (which won't be long from now I don't think). Be Patient, no one wants to help a whiner, you'll gain respect and self-image and maybe even a reputation if you're patient and gracious about things.
i think that the terrain negotiation mods for CM should be slightly reduced. I feel that a master scout should be faster across terrain than a master CM. After all, scouts are devoted to that type of thing. I have been master scout and master ranger, and currently i am a couple skill boxes short of master CM. I would propose that at Master CM level, the total terrain nego mod (from the CM tree) should be reduced down to about +35 or +40, not +50 (same as scout).
does anyone else agree? i mean scouts are devoted to the outdoors but CMs are split into healing and outdoors. reduce the terrain mod slightly.
-duck
but the difference is in the idea of a scout vs. the idea of a combat medic. in a general sense, scouts should be better in traveling across terrain than a person not trained specifically for wilderness.
and no, a master scout does have more TN than a novice scout. and sure, you could get training in scout and have some of your TN back but the difference is that u are actually trained in scouting and thus you are able to travel faster because of your wilderness training.
remember, im not saying a huge drop in the TN for CM...... i do think that, conceptually, because a CM is indeed trained for combat support, that it makes sense that they are quite to get to peoples aid... but not as quick as the fastest of them all, a scout. So instead of +50 TN at M-CM (same as M-Scout), make it +40. a very small change that better lives up to the ideas of "scouts" and "combat medics".
-duck
Xytroncore wrote:
DuckMaestro wrote:
but the difference is in the idea of a scout vs. the idea of a combat medic. in a general sense, scouts should be better in traveling across terrain than a person not trained specifically for wilderness.
No, we're field medics and we have to cross battlefields quickly to heal wounded, there's our justification for terrain negotiation.
i understand and agree with the justification forgiving CM'sTN. All i am saying is that a Scout should have more TN than a CM and for balance reasons only slightly more TN than a CM. I'm not saying nerf the TN for CM. Just a small change, +40 at M-CM instead of +50. Has anyone ever tested out the difference between terrain speeds with a +40 mod versus a +50 mod? the difference is *very small*.
Perhaps what i dont like is that at +50 mod, you can zoom up an 85 degree incline like you're neo from the matrix. Now that vehicles are in the game, i think the dev's should look into changing TN slightly. Instead of 100%of base speed up hills at +50, change it to 70% of basespeed up hills but also boost the base speed to 110% at +50. Just something, anything. I'm tired of unrealistic terrain where you can shoot through it and run up it like its nothing. It ruins any kind of positional tactics and stratigy when ure out in the field.
Scouts and Combat Medics each receive their TN skills mods from onebranch of their profession. This branch, for each of them, contains skill mods to TN and something else (CM use for CMs, mask scent and such for Scouts). As such, you can say that Scouts and CMs effectively receive the same amount of training in terrain negotiation and should therefore be just as skilled at it.
In addition, the CM terrain negotiation mods are earned in 4 boxes while the Scout ones are earned in 3 so you could actually argue that the Scouts receive less training in TN.
you gotta think more on the abstract lines....think beyond the skillboxes, beyond the xp, beyond the mods.
and you are correct that the scouts and CM's receive the same amount of TN training.... that is what i think is wrong. They should not receive the same terrain bonuses.
Scouts do not receive less training for the same amount, because they every-other box of TN bonuses has a prerequisit of every-other other box. currently, both scout and CM must use the same number of boxes in order to get the same final mod (+50).
does not anyone else agree with me? that conceptually, a person trained in scouting should be a bit faster than a person trained in combat healing? scouts are masters of the terrain, unequaled by none (other than rangers who become more proficient in other areas, ontop of scout).
-duck
I don't agree with you.
Edit: I don't agree with you because scouts don't have a terrain negotiation line, they have an exploration line with a couple of stats involved, one of which happens to be TN. If scouts were to have a line that was specific for terrain negotiation, then yes, they should have a better TN rating than a master Combat Medic.
Having explore IV or master scout gives you much more benefit than just the TN and burst run bonus from master CM. I miss mask scent but have adapted to life without it.I also miss the ability to pull camps. I miss the ability to harvest insect meat thatI need for my diseases.
Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 01-14-2004 01:03 AM