Combat Medic Archive
Thread: The Top 5 I posted....err make that 10
DedMnWlking wrote:
Then why can't I be a COMBAT MEDIC WITHOUT the ranged support in the marksman class? If that is all COMBAT means in my name WHY do I need to train in ranged WEAPON support? Ranged weapon support doesn't give you any type of gun like carbine or pistol or rifle. It is strickly there to suck the points to a pointless part of the profession.
If my job is to just be a MEDIC in COMBAT why can't MEDIC just be enough for my class? Like a doctor? What you are saying makes sense IF and only IF I did not need to blow 29 points in marksman to get to Combat Medic.
Errr....If you really need to justify it, the Ranged tree is what has allowed you to hone your accuracy so you can throw those poison/disease packs...or howabout the range tree gave you the field expertise to be a competent battlefield medic....or howabout you do what I do and accept the fact that it is a pre-req for Combat Medic simply because...it is.
Honestly, if you are so aggrevated by the marksman line, go Doctor....whats the problem?
Anyway, still holding firm to my crafted bio powerup idea....most of these complaints are stemming from "I can't do missions!". A sellable product will shut them up, fix a legitimate shortcoming in the CM profession and not piss off the rest of the SWG community....
And before you jump in on whining about commandos... Get out of your bone armor, stop standing in one spot, screaming fry me, fry me.
Really, the only reason why someone is whining about his poisons (as a CM) is when he hasnt spent much time on experimenting. No sane person would ever complain about the DPS of CMs in PvP. And if you use your brain further you'll see that the CM is the 2nd most damaging class on 'uber' mobs like Krayt Dragons as well(AP for poisons? HA![K, I gotta say that on my server we have no T21s yet due to the not spawning resource]).
People are talking about being nerfed immediately on something that hasnt even been described. What if it did 1 point of damage? What if all it did was give an extra 5 uses to a poison? Think anyone would be screaming then?
Hate to break it to all of you, but a guy using chemical weapons is a lot more realistic then throwing first aid kits that magically heal you.
More variety = good. I think we lose nothing by wanting a variety in what we could use. Everyone is asking for more variety in weapons.
Essentially though a bioweapon is a NICE to have. Not a need to have. Yes we have to take ranged stuff... but it gets represented in THROWING (note the idea of range here) poisons and diesese and heals.
It would be nice if poison did more damage in PVE and thats not inappropriate to ask for. WE shouldnt be primary damage dealers at all, though with the expense of poison and diesese we ought to have some reason to throw it at a critter (and have someone notice).
IF you are so concered about pvp have a new poison or two that works as crowd control, a creature only debuff, something. At least up the damage on ones that exist in PVE. Most people dont PVP... why does that have to dictate the entire game?
Why does everyone have to be so radically extreme here? makes no sense to me.
Kavedawg wrote:
1) I have posted before that my main reason for a bio weapon is for an easy "Work around" for the devs to get the dern mission terminals to give us a challenging mission and better payouts.
We already have bio weapons. This shouldn't even be in the top 10. Seems only the hardcore CMs care about keeping any integrity in our class. If they wan't to fix the mission terminal assignments they should base it off our CM Support tree.
DedMnWlking wrote:
A bounty hunter has weapons as part of their manditory class skills. And the only other class that costs the SAME amount of points as a CM is a commando and they as well have weapons as part of their class.
A BH or Comm can't heal themselves. We can. They use heavy weapons and have certs for them. We use poisons and diseases. Measuring spent points is a poor way of justifying us having combat skills. If you want combat skills go spend the points like they did. If you feel like you got ripped for the points you spent in getting Master CM, you still have 80+ to spend elsewhere. You can't have your cake and eati it too.
Oback wrote:
we are the only combat class, and yes, we are a combat class (just because we can heal people doesnt mean we are automaticly a support class) and we dont even have a gun for ourselfs, kinda odd isnt it? for as much points we put into it
We are Combat Support. You all need to understand this. We support groups in combat. If you don't like that go play a Doc/Pistoleer. Or a BH/Novice Medic. Don't come whining to the CM boards spouting off what your lame version of what the CM uberclass should be. If you aren't doing well enough in PVP or PVE as a CM then you obviously have no skills and should go play an easier class.
I played an artisan and an architect in beta. When SWG went live I started as a scout.2 months later I had fully surrenderred ALL my initial abilities and was a Master CM/Master Doc. I sacrificed alot of abilities and time to get there and I'm proud of the template I chose as I am sure other CMs and Docs alike are. Don't cheapen our efforts as a SUPPORT class just so you can whine about how we should be self sufficient.
A combat medic IRL is trained in and carries no more than a Automatic Beretta 9mm. While they aren't as well trained asregular infantry, they have enough skills to protect themselves to a degree.
For as much points as we spend, I would rather see our existing abilities get fixed.If you want surveying go buy it or pay someone to help you. The way the system works is built on inter-dependancy. Being self-sufficient comes at a cost much like real life. My Physician doesn't go out to farm his medical supplies, he has an account with Baxter Travenol to provide him with what he needs.
If you want to excel at PVP go buy the skills that will help you in that endeavor. The BHs were asking for basic medic skills not too long ago and we shouted a resounding NO. It would be hypocritical of us to want combat abilities on par with theirs, WITHOUT PAYING FOR THEM.
Quit wasting the Devs time trying to weasel complete and total self sufficiency into CM class. They need to concentrate on the REAL ISSUES.
Gnuut wrote:
Kavedawg wrote:1) I have posted before that my main reason for a bio weapon is for an easy "Work around" for the devs to get the dern mission terminals to give us a challenging mission and better payouts.
We already have bio weapons. This shouldn't even be in the top 10.
well no, see, as Zarlor has pointed out many times in his compilations of lists, and Kavedawg mentioned in another thread, it deservs mention because its being discussed on the forum quite a bit.
I don't like the idea of a bio-rifle, and like you, I feel our unique weapon is in our poison and disease, but just because we disagree with it doesn't mean it shouldn't be listed. There were alot of people who liked the idea and said so in a thread voting about it, and far fewer people voting against.
On another unrelated note. I am REALLY tired of the support vs. combat class debate. Combat Medics are about as hibrid as they come with abilities that are incredibly useful in both offensive and defensive roles (so long as healing is considered defense). We aren't going to get the really powerful healing abilities of doctor (revive), and we aren't going to get the really powerful offensive capabilities of Bounty Hunters or Commandos. We are going to be in between the 2 extremes.
I do believe that our offensive capability in PvE is a little more limited than it should be largely do to the general ineffectiveness of disease. It would be cool if disease ate HAM from the bottom of the bar instead of the top. Then poison and disease could meet in the middle and have a little party.
Lastly, I'm really tired so I'm rambling again. sorry about that.
Sedriss_Demorte wrote:
Don't forget, we are a support class, we're not supposed to go solo.
Sedriss Demorte, Clan Demorte
Master Combat Medic, Pistoleer
If we are not suppose to go solo then why are you a Pistoleer? OH yea so you can SOLO. Have you looked at the points that we need to spend on our class? Aside from a Bounty Hunter we spend the most points on our class. And guess what? A bounty hunter has weapons as part of their manditory class skills. And the only other class that costs the SAME amount of points as a CM is a commando and they as well have weapons as part of their class.
He took Pistoleer because he choose NOT to be a PURE support. As you can see, he doesnt have Doc so he cant buff nor revive. You got the difference? Add BH and Commando. Does they have ranged heals, AOE heals, Poisons and Diseases? No, they havent.
I think what they are thinking of a bio-pistol is a good idea just for the fact that it will give us support. In order to be a fully functional Healer on the combat field I need to be a Master Comabt medic and a 4/4/3/? as a Doctor. I am usually and frequently the only healer in the group. When this happens say on Endor the wounds that then birds deal is far stronger and the DOT last for far longer than any of my stims. So I need to cure desease. And If I cannot do that in time? I need to revive my fallen comrades.
Why bio-pistol? Why not bio-rifle or bio-carabine? And you said you are mainly the only healer in group. Why? Because you are CM/Doc with cure poison/disease, revive, so the group dont HAVE to look for more healers.I see more Doctors than CMs running around. My guild have 4 docs while only 2 CMs including me.
This leaves me with 35 points and no weapon skill. So I now have a choice. Do I do what every other Combat Medic I know does and BUY my revive packs? Or do I make my own? and spend another 14 of my precious 35 points that I have left. But wait I have level 1 guns to choose from now. What does that mean? Oh and I have to get Novice Artisan for surveying because I won't be able to BE a Combat Medic if I cannot find any of my resources. So that is 14+15=29 and 34-29=5.
That is the price for fact you want be self sufficient. SWG was made as Playerdriven economy, a world where everyone is tight together. In RL you breed cows to get milk and meat? You go out to cut trees to make paper, furniture etc? No. You buy it! You get it?
Five, FIVE I have 5 points to spend on a weapon. WooHoo I can get level 2 of whatever I want. And how much damage does that do to something on say Lok where I need to gather my wheat....or Yavin 4 where I need to get fiberplast. Lets see my little 145points againsts a 8000 HAM creature who dishes over 1000 points of damage a hit = 1 dead Combat Medic.
Your character template IS a group ONLY character. You choosed to make such, so you have to find groups. I choosed to be able to retaliate to force with force, so I am in addition to CM a Rifleman. I do not have buffs. I do not have cure disease/poison. I do not have revive. But I do have my rifle and can give enemy the hell. If you want deadly gun, you have to surrender something from your skills. You cant be an IownzYooN00bzguy in this game. And if you can, than I will quit this game faster than you can say IamUBAR.
Instead of that bio-weapon ( Yes they can give it to us, but only as a device which allow us to apply poison/diseases on 64m) I would like to see something usefull like snare chem. But for now, I would be happy if they fix that goddamn adv RC and AoE diseases CMUse skill.
And for resource collecting. Ask your friends who have survey skill for locations, use web pages to get spawn tables. Than put 2 BIG harvesters on those resources, mine them like mad and when they disappear you will have at least 100k of resource and you would not have to collect that resource for months. Period.
Flaskicz wrote:
And for resource collecting. Ask your friends who have survey skill for locations, use web pages to get spawn tables. Than put 2 BIG harvesters on those resources, mine them like mad and when they disappear you will have at least 100k of resource and you would not have to collect that resource for months. Period.
/applaud and totally agree
Gnuut wrote:
DedMnWlking wrote:
A bounty hunter has weapons as part of their manditory class skills. And the only other class that costs the SAME amount of points as a CM is a commando and they as well have weapons as part of their class.
A BH or Comm can't heal themselves. We can. They use heavy weapons and have certs for them. We use poisons and diseases. Measuring spent points is a poor way of justifying us having combat skills. If you want combat skills go spend the points like they did. If you feel like you got ripped for the points you spent in getting Master CM, you still have 80+ to spend elsewhere. You can't have your cake and eati it too.
Oh I am sorry Gnuut the all and wise. Can you please then explain to me why I had to spend 29 extra points then in MARKSMAN if i'm not a COMBAT class?
Why not just say Combat Support Medic and let me go straight to it from Medic. Why do I need to waste 29 extra points in Marksman.
Was it for the whooping +6 Ranged Defense points or the even more useful +2 melee defense points? No, No I got it you are going to tell me it was for the +30 General aiming skill. Ok then every Combat medic out there please tell me who uses single target stims and posions MORE that areas? And last i checked I didn't need to AIM a AREA heal.
And as far as measureing points spent IS the point!!!!!!! And a valid one. If I use more points to get to Master Combat Medic than to Master Doctor why is a Master Doctor better than a Master Combat Medic?
Oh and don't even tell me they aren't lets compaire:
Master Doctor
HUGE Heal stims, Poison Cures, Desease Cures, State Cures, BUFFS!, Rez Kits, and HUGE Wound cure Packs
All for the bargin price of 140 skill points
Master Combat Medic
Area Heals, Ranged Heals, Ranged posions (that are only good as Master), Area Posions (again that are only good at master), Ranged Deseases(used only as greiving tool otherwise useless), area Desease(used only as greiving tool otherwise useless)
All for the price of 169 skill points
So a Doctor gets 7 benefits from being in his profession and all seem to work. A combat medic, who spends MORE points on his profession, only get 6 things 2 of which are worthless (ranged diseases and area deseases)
AND to top it off a Doctor will ALWAYS have better medications than a Combat Medic due to the fact that they get more experimentation points.
So a Doctor gets Rez - Who goes to a hospital to DIE???
So a Doctor gets poison cures - When do I get posioned in a Hospital?
So a Doctor gets Disease cures - When do I get a Disease in a Hospital?
Oh and if you say a doctors place isn't ONLY in a Hospital then #1 why are they the only ones that can register at the planetary terminal IN a hospital. AND #2 then WHY is the ONLY place I'M effective is IN combat?
Think about the pros and cons of BOTH your Master Classes before you post. There are pros and cons to BOTH classes but the Pros of a Doctor equal the Cons of a Combat Medic and the oppisite is NOT true.
This is an inbalance in the Healing classes!!!!!
DedMnWlking wrote:And as far as measureing points spent IS the point!!!!!!! And a valid one. If I use more points to get to Master Combat Medic than to Master Doctor why is a Master Doctor better than a Master Combat Medic?
Oh and don't even tell me they aren't lets compaire:
Master Doctor
HUGE Heal stims, Poison Cures, Desease Cures, State Cures, BUFFS!, Rez Kits, and HUGE Wound cure Packs
All for the bargin price of 140 skill points
Master Combat Medic
Area Heals, Ranged Heals, Ranged posions (that are only good as Master), Area Posions (again that are only good at master), Ranged Deseases(used only as greiving tool otherwise useless), area Desease(used only as greiving tool otherwise useless)
All for the price of 169 skill points
So a Doctor gets 7 benefits from being in his profession and all seem to work. A combat medic, who spends MORE points on his profession, only get 6 things 2 of which are worthless (ranged diseases and area deseases)
AND to top it off a Doctor will ALWAYS have better medications than a Combat Medic due to the fact that they get more experimentation points.
So a Doctor gets Rez - Who goes to a hospital to DIE???
So a Doctor gets poison cures - When do I get posioned in a Hospital?
So a Doctor gets Disease cures - When do I get a Disease in a Hospital?
Oh and if you say a doctors place isn't ONLY in a Hospital then #1 why are they the only ones that can register at the planetary terminal IN a hospital. AND #2 then WHY is the ONLY place I'M effective is IN combat?
Think about the pros and cons of BOTH your Master Classes before you post. There are pros and cons to BOTH classes but the Pros of a Doctor equal the Cons of a Combat Medic and the oppisite is NOT true.
This is an inbalance in the Healing classes!!!!!
this fight never gets old does it...
First of all. While doctors can craft stimpack Es, they are no better at using them than a master medic who coincidently have all the medicine skill use they'll need to use them (unless made with poor ingredients).
Combat Medic Poison is superior to Doctor Cure Poison. Doctor's cannot cure an area like combat medics can apply it, nor can Doctors heal in an area to slow the effect of the poison (as if it weren't going to be mind damage anyway), and in my experience, master crafted poison single or area is not cured by master crafted cure poison. Further, while cure poison C requires 97-ish medical use (Master Doctor), poison C packs, even the area variety, require less than 75 and thus are available at master combat medic support tree. A 4,0,0,4 combat medic costs 140 skill points (same as a master doctor), but applies greater poison than a doctor can cure even if its just the availability of area.
In your list of advantages for combat medic you forgot to list terrain negotiation. While it only got to be really good recently, its a tremendous advantage to the class, and allows you to save 24 points from novice scout/lvl 3 exploration tree which is inferior to the TN a combat medic has. You also don't list warning shot, or supression fire. There are some rewards to the ranged combat support tree after all.
when you ask about the /register command and then list how your combat medic is only effective in combat, you're right to a degree. All of a combat medics skills are adapted to the combat medic environment, although a CM is a busy cantina's dream come true with area cure. Doctor's are more versatile than CMs. They have abilities for preperation for combat (buff), during combat (state cures/revive), and after combat (wound treatment). In combat a CM is capable of more robust healing (when things go south, nothing beats an area stim C), crowd control (warning shot, supression fire), and offense (poison and disease -- although poison isn't very useful considering its cost in pve, and disease is useless in pve).
The ideal of both the doctor and the combat medic are about equal to me, but the current execution of CM is terribly flawed though, and make the less broken (but still flawed) doctor seem more appealing. I do have faith now, since the last patch that the devs will take (slow, small, stumbling) steps towards resolving some of those issues.
Replying directly to Kavedawgs original post. Definitely a good list,:
as mentioned by Kave himself, the cash thing needs to be addressed a.s.a.p. and should have been in the top 5.
the whole PVE argument/issue needs to be dropped alltogether. I don't know how the people who think this is an issue are creating their poisons, but I'm doing 400-450 damage every 8 seconds with my poisons (soloing Bull Rancor Lairs with my Cowardly Gurreck) , and this is prior to using advanced resilience and having only half of our experimentation on components enabled.
Bio-Weapon would be cool simply for a change of pace. We don't need it to be more powerful, we're extremely powerful as is keeping the above note in mind. But I am really tired of being a dispenser, and I feel that having a bio weapon can address the issue of picking missions at a terminal. Also, the state damage is simply a fun idea that would spice things up for us.
Once again, because I know this always causes big issues with the people I've encountered who really know the profession best, I am in no way saying we need a bio weapon to be more powerful.
Armand
Actually, here's another idea:
Get rid of our useless Diseases, replace those with a State bio weapon that requires us to craft the ammunition for it.
Sounds like a fair and fun trade off to me.