Combat Medic Archive
Thread: 1hp point or is it ?
Thanks for the info happy. Facts will go a long way toward balancing things. Maybe the issue where it did not bring the NPC to 1 hp is PVe only then. Or maybe his poison ran out and it LOOKED like the bar was down to nothing but, in fact, the poison ran out before hitting the cap.
So someone enlighten me. What is the fastest a poison does tic? 2 seconds a tic is obviously too fast, 4 seconds? That's still hellafast for something you can't heal or react to in any way. What's the delay on cure poison for a doctor and the mind cost? I am still vehemently for this change, so long as it actually brings everyone down to 1 point on the poisoned bar. I kind of like the fact that poison + disease still incaps, but I have a feeling that might get nerfed as it is counter to what I believe the devs were trying to accomplish with this change. Mostly on the side of Commandos not combat medics (the fact that they can shoot an ATST 1 time with flame2 and then get killed yet the atst dies and theres absolutely nothing that can be done to stop it...)
And to continue my original argument. CM could take out 10+ people in many cases that were not afk and were all close to end game skills if not there. Whether my particular numbers on the tic delay are accurate or not is irrelevant. What I can confirm is that the mind poison was doing 500+ per tic. And the tics were coming faster than I could hope to react to. And the doctor in my group managed to heal himself of the poison before incapping and no one else... he then was so low on mind he had to sit and wait to heal anymore.
The CM did not finish this group completely off, and was not solo, though. But the group was around 25 people with 10+ pets. He had a BH friend and they took out around 10-15 of the group (mostly due to the ae mind poison incapping the majority of the players, and killin the faction pets outright). This was overpowered.
For comparison sake: what is the tic rate of poison and the delay rate and mind cost of healing poison?
On that same note, it might be an interesting and unique effect to have poison not only start ticcing away the ham, but to bring the regen stats down to minimum (if not 1 hp, then 150 like when you're incapped).
> 2 seconds a tic is obviously too fast, 4 seconds?
Some people report 4 seconds (no SS was ever provided), though most poisons tick every 8 seconds.
> Maybe the issue where it did not bring the NPC to 1 hp is PVe only then.
The issue is NOT that that NPC life was not brought to 1 point (it was)
The issue was that it does not STAY at one point long enough to allow incap shot.
Reread the test that Happy did:
> "I drained a player's regen stats to 1 through disease"
So he does not regen - so it stays as one.
In a normal test (with normal regen rate):
> where the target's regen stats were normal and they were wearing
> reasonable armor (30% padded in this case) and I did have trouble
> consistently incapping them unless I happened to get a hit on the right
> pool.
Which is my point exactly.
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Reminging post has nothing to do with the issue raised (inability to incap opponent after poison), however to answer some COMMON misinformation:
- Before patch there was no 500tic AOE poisons, the best was in high 300th (check numerous posts on the subject).
- It takes doctor at most 2 tries 4 sec each to completly remove poison (see Kavedog / Zarlor test on the matter, note that their test involved B cure poison pack, not C - which cures even single-line hard poison in one application). AOE poison (with 300 a tick) will take 2 ticks to kill unbuffed person with even minimum Mind ham - so Doctor can cure himself AND 2 more people. Howere one has to wonder:
> He had a BH friend and they took out around 10-15 of the group
BH eye shot is incredibly powerfull - have you considered that perhaps the problem was NOT with CM but with BH instead ?
#3
> CM could take out 10+ people in many cases that were not afk and were
> all close to end game skills if not there.
This is true and most reasonable CMs agree that suicide-bombers (for example run in, poison - incap but get up first and DB everyone) were unbalanced and glad they are removed. HOWEVER the change introduced a problem - were CM can't INCAP person - a bit too drastic. There were other suggestions on how to adress bombers, and there are other suggestions still popping up.
MichaelF77 wrote:
>I am simply defending the change that was put in.
The change that was put in is NOT the change that we were told would be put in. Check discussions earlier on the forum, you will see that we were told that 1 shot from any weapon will finish the target - which is NOT the case.
> The fact is in many cases a CM could drop an AE mind poison on a group
> and they would all incap way before a doc had a chance to respond.
BS. Check discussions earlier on the forum, you will see that doctor poison cure was equal to CM single line poison (which is harder to heal then AOE) - so it's not "the fact".
> They're not equal and if you think they are you're a moron.
How are they not equal ?
You think CM was overpowered, I "think" smuggler is overpowered.
You continuely post incorrect information based on second-hand and rumors (2sec tick, doc can't outheal CM poison are just 2 most outrageous examples) so I put one incorrect pieces in my "proposal".
I saw smuggler kill 10 people easily before (he was novice smuggler + several lines commando)
The ony difference is - I don't actually go to the other profession boards and post BS to have them nerfed or to defend bugs in game - which is what you are doing here.
The fact of the matter is nobody told us that the change was comming, the only reason you got any warning was because I caught it when the devs pushed the city patch toTC. So any assumuptions about 1 shotting a PC at the +1 cap probably is my fault. Yes I can 1 shot npc's at the +1 cap with the base attack from my bowcasterand assumed the same would apply to PvP, but Michael ( I think it was Michael ) proved me wrong with an earlier post about the regen rates when people are buffed coupled with armor reduction and the PvP damage reduction would make it almost impossible for someone with a CM/Doc templet to incap the enemy player, but this was at least a couple weeks ago before the patch hit live so what exactly are you fighting over now?
"- Before patch there was no 500tic AOE poisons, the best was in high 300th (check numerous posts on the subject)."
That's funny, the little blue -5xx mark above my head when I got hit by AOE poisons several times say otherwise. I have made numerous posts on this subject. Obviously you missed them. When I very first got nailed by this, I even had my CM friend test poison on me and on some creatures. I actually took MORE per tic than the creatures (despite the fact that everyone else in the game got a 75% reduction in dmg).
The only fighting going on is that michael wants to be able to /pwn people without using anything but 1 mind poison pack. And I'm fighting that I believe it's overpowered.
"That's funny, the little blue -5xx mark above my head when I got hit by AOE poisons several times say otherwise. I have made numerous posts on this subject."
Please provide screenshots. Post proof or retract this lie.
"Obviously you missed them. When I very first got nailed by this, I even had my CM friend test poison on me and on some creatures. I actually took MORE per tic than the creatures (despite the fact that everyone else in the game got a 75% reduction in dmg)."
LOL! Yeah they put the damage nerf of combat medics on PVE. That's it. God times like this these forums need a smiley for retarded people, such as yourself.
"The only fighting going on is that michael wants to be able to /pwn people without using anything but 1 mind poison pack. And I'm fighting that I believe it's overpowered."
Sounds more like you're crying cause you were retarded enough to fight a combat medic without somebody who can cure ya. YOU=RETARD!!111 DDUURRRRRR
"Sounds more like you're crying cause you were retarded enough to fight a combat medic without somebody who can cure ya."
I don't even have to respond to the rest of your post.. all I have to do is point out this single line. The fact that a master pistoleer, master smuggler, with TKA skills and Stim Cs is considered "retarded" for taking on a healer class with hybrid combat abilities points out that your view is that you think CMs should single handedly own everyone who isnt a doctor and/or doesnt have doctors following them around. That is overpowered. Period.
"Please provide screenshots. Post proof or retract this lie."
Sigh.. Lets take your own board and use that as argument.
From your own FAQ:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=10332
Q) How much damage do poison do?
A) Simplified formula:
Damage per tick = (poison effectiveness) * (1 + (CM effectivness) / 100)
So master CM (90 CM effectivness) with single line pack of 250 will do
250 * (1 + 90/100) = 475 damage.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=7170
Several claims of 500+ single poisons. AE doing easily 320-350. Even 350 a tic is overpowered for an AE attack that does not have to be maintained and is at the mind pool.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=11857
Someone reported here an effect of 200. Plug that into the above formula. 380 per tic.
Now. Name a single combat class that can do TARGETED Mind pool damage at 300 per shot to 20+ people while being out of shooting range or even incapped(even if you have to get in shooting range to hit them you can sprint away after nailing the group because it's a DOT). Heck I could even deal with an AE targeted mind shot from a CM if you had to manually use it (like a special move) each time. But the fact that it was a DOT that could ONLY be countered by a doctor is what overpowered it. You can't do anything once the CM tosses that pack if you dont have doctor skills. KD him.. delay shot him.. even incap or kill him and you're still screwed.
Add the fact that CMs are not pure offense yet could put out the most lethal ae offense in the game and you have one overpowered ability. No, single packs werent overpowered. And ae health/action were not necessarily overpowered. But AE mind poison was. This wasn't the change I had been advocating for, but it does solve the issue, and the only way you're going to get around it is to be creative and move forward with suggestions on how to balance it out.
Maybe this change will hit you hard, but the pendelum swings both ways, and rarely settles right on the center balance point. Michael, Smugglers DID get nerfed before and they got nerfed hard. Our penalty for starting the launch of game with panicshot got it nerfed into oblivion and it was fairly useless up until the latest patch where it finally seems to be in line. You're just now getting hit, but things will even out. Unless they nerf the disease+poison combo you still can take out groups. It will just take 2 packs instead of 1 which will make it much more difficult (and if you can nail the whole group with AE poison and AE disease then you deserve that manyincaps).
Try to focus on what got fixed. I saw a listing of a lot of positive changes that went in including the delay for throwing packs being reduced I believe by benefit of the skill mods being fixed or something.
Niza wrote:
Throw a disease first and they die. Disease + Poison kills.
YAY!! someone figured it out too, I figured this out the other day, I diseased my buddy the other day to see how strong I made them, just for fun. When we were dueling, I hit him by mistake and he had 100 health pool damage.
When my diseas on his health pool ticked 1 time after his damage was under 100, it ticked him to incap.
Which means, poison does the damage, disease does the wound to bring that damage below 0.... look for my post about the full explaination.
"That's funny, the little blue -5xx mark above my head when I got hit by AOE poisons several times say otherwise."
In this post you claim that Area of Effect poisons go over 500. I claim this to be BS and tell you to prove otherwise.
"Several claims of 500+ single poisons."
You said AREA poisons. Not singles. Nor did I ever dispute that singles can go overt 500 per tick.
"Someone reported here an effect of 200. Plug that into the above formula. 380 per tic."
Last I checked 380 was significantly less than 500. You have just conceeded that you are unable to find any examples of area poisons with 500+ ticks. Concession accepted. Now please leave.
"Last I checked 380 was significantly less than 500. You have just conceeded that you are unable to find any examples of area poisons with 500+ ticks. Concession accepted. Now please leave."
Well you read 1 line of the post and ignored the rest. If you're not going to bother to even read the forums maybe you should leave.
"No, I want to be able to KILL people without anything but 1 mind poison pack and default weapon. What's wrong with that ?"
Sounds good. Time your attack right and you can. You tested it in pvp yet? All I saw was a PVE (flawed from what I can gather, since others have posted NPCs dont regen while you're in range, and from what I've seen they dont..) it looks like your poison simply ran out before actually hitting the 1hp mark and you assumed it was at 1hp. Did you hover the mouse over the ham bar to ensure it was at 1 before starting to fire your carbine?
I still think it would be a cool effect to have poison knock the regen stat down to incap rate. Unique and would help accomplish what you're going for. And would make action and health poisons that much more useful. Like I said, it was not the change I would have personally advocated. But it accomplishes the goal, and going back the way it was is not a valid option IMO. Not unless you take away AE mind poison altogether.
ok anyone who whines about the patch is dumb, i whined about it when i first heard about it and thought "well thats not real" but it makes it more fun. it makes raids much much harder because you cannot just have a MCM jump in throw an area poison to mnd and then run away and everyone is incapped. you have to use skill.
|||~~~Laetron Tyrillious~~~|||