Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Publish 9.1: Feedback Thread
vortexala wrote:
The publish is supposed to go live today. So please post feedback here regarding our fixes.
Qualifications: Master CM/Master Doc/Novice Marksman (Carbines 4/Pistols 1/Rifle 1)
Using: Area Stim C, Health/Action Dmg 882, Range 26, Area 36, CM use 64.
Situation: In Cantina (Mos Eisley, Intrepid Server), attempting to heal dancers/musicians.
Standing at 8m, everything works as expected.
Standing at 10m, I get the "target is too far away" message but experience the animation, the mental loss from throwing the stim, but no heal occurs to the targets.
Standing beyond 10m, I get the "target is too far away" and nothing.
Sitting at 10m, everything works as expected.
Sitting at beyond 10m, I get the "target is too far away" and nothing.
jkray8472 wrote:
According to Excel, it has a linear progression.
Actual Range = 1.0068(Listed Range) + 13.503
Given decimels etc....I'd call it Range + 13.5...but it occasionally slips a digit and rounds upwards for us.
Edit: Ok, the equation came from a trendline that more or less hit all the dots. The actual graph itself was a little shaky, probably due to only integer input.
Message Edited by jkray8472 on 07-14-2004 04:54 PM
IvoTosroe wrote:
Thank you SOE, for once, you've done something that I actually appreciate. And further this patch as well. I dont have a problem with getting poisoned, it's just, I don't appreciate my mind becoming incapacitated in a matter of a seconds when a CM decides to poisons me.Minutes, sure, but seconds, no.
But I'd also like to comment on DoT's in general. Lately, melee loot drops with weapons carrying INTENSE DoT's have been dropping like flies left and right. Last night, I got incapped in a matter of a seconds because a pikeman decided to hit me with his lance while managing to poision, disease, and light my mind on fire all simultaneously. You can imagine how this turned out. Now, before you jump out of your chair screaming OMFG **edit** NERFER, read carefully. I think if that these loot drops are going to be so sparatic so that melees will be able to carry a DoT weapon that has a 200 effectiveness with 90% potency, I think we need to give ranged professions DoT weapons as well. And I don't mean those crappy tusken rifles with 400 effectiveness and 3% potency, those are quite worthless. Just a thought. And yes, I am a rifleman, and when that pikeman hit me last night, I had made a severe tactical mistake of coming into close range of him along with many other mistakes. But granted, melees can kick the crap out of us (rifleman) at close range anyways, so why give them DoT's if you're not going to spread the wealth.
This seems silly to me that a 48m pack can't reach 65m for a master. 40-48m ratings should be hitting in the 60-65m range.
jkray8472 wrote:
I'm a Master CM.
Pack Range Actual Throwing Distance
39m 52m
41m 55m
48m (max) 62m (max)
This was against a guildmate doctor of mine. We were both standing still, as I slowly moved forward meter by meter, to test--this was to remove lag as a consideration for messing with the distance.
I will crunch these numbers right now and look for an equation.
I TOLD them they should have made our spherical space station out of the same magnetically shielded walls as the garbage compactor! -Sleksheea
TsunamiKata wrote:
Morath360 wrote:
This appears to be a vicious cycle. Im still not sure how this is fun for anyone. Ok so now you make it so a CM can be griefed easier, but the cycle is still there. Do they truly become suiciders? I mean if they are easier to kill, it is not as much fun to play CM, however the poisons are still overly powerful. Maybe people will get tired of it and there will be less CM's. That would be a good thing. I guess its a start..
Why do people continuously claim that the damage on the poison is over powered? This is the part that really baffles me. How many time does your 700 damage T-21 headshot misses on a Combat Medic? 1 out of maybe 15-20 shots at most? And how much damage do you do in that spam of time vs a CM?
It really perplexes me why people are so ignorant about the damage output between the professions.
I'm going to take a little of my time and show you something. There is a large damage difference between a combat medic and a rifleman. Rifleman's headshot can only target one person at a time. Also, many combat professions have significant dodge and ranged defense so that 25% of a rifleman's shots get through. Couple that with a good PSG and a good helmet and the damage is very toned down. Once a rifleman dies or leaves combat he/she stops doing damage. Grant it... not every combat profession has such rigorous innate anti-ranged defenses.
Compare that to a CM. They can target much more than one person at a time. Counter to rifleman, the odds of resisting a poison/disease are very slim. In addition there are no mechanics that allow mitigation of a poison's damage. There are no armors against poison either. Furthermore poisons do damage well after a CM dies or leaves combat. Grant it.. you can cure poisons with a doctor, but stopping a CM from damaging you is much much more difficult than simply running behind a wall.
Thankfully with the havla-fix, rapid stacking of area poisons and diseases puts the damage output of CM's more in-line with other classes. Before a CM could stack multiple poisons for +1000 tics on an area of players. For a player who well protects themselves against riflemen, the most a rifleman could do to their head is less than 1000 in 10 seconds. That was before the fix. 1000 damage to a single player by riflemen damage, 1000 damage to a field of players by CM damage.
To answer your question that is why people complain about the damage output of a CM. They could do near rifleman damage to a field of combatants allat the same time.... it has been fixed thank god.
I'm gonna go beyond just answering your question by analyzing your picture of CM damage output that I quoted above. I'll show you where the weakness lies in your argument. Your analysis of damage output of riflemen to CM starts with taking the highest damage combat class and pitting it against the lowest defense combat class. The weakness is that it doesn't take into account the majority of PvP'ers who have decent ranged defenses. It also doesn't take into account a CM who dabbles for defenses. In truth, a significant portion of PvP'ers use foods, armor, defenses, and tactics to avoid riflemen headshot and are pretty successful. Ranged mitigation 3, synthsteaks (45% damage reduction), a good helmet, a good shield generator, use of cover behind walls, high ranged defense, flameout (food), etc.. can all be used to protect against the deadly master headshot. My point is that painting the population of PvP'ers as sheep to riflemen is incorrect and is a poor picture to set the apporpriate damage output of CM's by.
The damage output of a rifleman on a pure CM is huge, but in no way should this scenario be the measuring stick for balancing CM damage in modern PvP.
My opinion is that CM area poisons should be 500 max damage for good crafters and a maximum of 600 for CM's who want to go the extra mile to craft something special. A 500 tick on an area of players is plenty enough. CM damage should be very game breaking to a group with no doctors, it should not be game breaking to a group with doctors. I believe we are currently seeing CM's game-breaking combat teams with doctors.... my hope is that the recent changes in CM correct this.
Calls for 75% nerfs are a little extreme, but as you all know... some poisons are way over the top.
Ternque01 wrote:
TsunamiKata wrote:
Morath360 wrote:
This appears to be a vicious cycle. Im still not sure how this is fun for anyone. Ok so now you make it so a CM can be griefed easier, but the cycle is still there. Do they truly become suiciders? I mean if they are easier to kill, it is not as much fun to play CM, however the poisons are still overly powerful. Maybe people will get tired of it and there will be less CM's. That would be a good thing. I guess its a start..
Why do people continuously claim that the damage on the poison is over powered? This is the part that really baffles me. How many time does your 700 damage T-21 headshot misses on a Combat Medic? 1 out of maybe 15-20 shots at most? And how much damage do you do in that spam of time vs a CM?
It really perplexes me why people are so ignorant about the damage output between the professions.
I'm going to take a little of my time and show you something. There is a large damage difference between a combat medic and a rifleman. Rifleman's headshot can only target one person at a time. Also, many combat professions have significant dodge and ranged defense so that 25% of a rifleman's shots get through. Couple that with a good PSG and a good helmet and the damage is very toned down. Once a rifleman dies or leaves combat he/she stops doing damage. Grant it... not every combat profession has such rigorous innate anti-ranged defenses.
Compare that to a CM. They can target much more than one person at a time. Counter to rifleman, the odds of resisting a poison/disease are very slim. In addition there are no mechanics that allow mitigation of a poison's damage. There are no armors against poison either. Furthermore poisons do damage well after a CM dies or leaves combat. Grant it.. you can cure poisons with a doctor, but stopping a CM from damaging you is much much more difficult than simply running behind a wall.
Thankfully with the havla-fix, rapid stacking of area poisons and diseases puts the damage output of CM's more in-line with other classes. Before a CM could stack multiple poisons for +1000 tics on an area of players. For a player who well protects themselves against riflemen, the most a rifleman could do to their head is less than 1000 in 10 seconds. That was before the fix. 1000 damage to a single player by riflemen damage, 1000 damage to a field of players by CM damage.
To answer your question that is why people complain about the damage output of a CM. They could do near rifleman damage to a field of combatants allat the same time.... it has been fixed thank god.
I'm gonna go beyond just answering your question by analyzing your picture of CM damage output that I quoted above. I'll show you where the weakness lies in your argument. Your analysis of damage output of riflemen to CM starts with taking the highest damage combat class and pitting it against the lowest defense combat class. The weakness is that it doesn't take into account the majority of PvP'ers who have decent ranged defenses. It also doesn't take into account a CM who dabbles for defenses. In truth, a significant portion of PvP'ers use foods, armor, defenses, and tactics to avoid riflemen headshot and are pretty successful. Ranged mitigation 3, synthsteaks (45% damage reduction), a good helmet, a good shield generator, use of cover behind walls, high ranged defense, flameout (food), etc.. can all be used to protect against the deadly master headshot. My point is that painting the population of PvP'ers as sheep to riflemen is incorrect and is a poor picture to set the apporpriate damage output of CM's by.
The damage output of a rifleman on a pure CM is huge, but in no way should this scenario be the measuring stick for balancing CM damage in modern PvP.
My opinion is that CM area poisons should be 500 max damage for good crafters and a maximum of 600 for CM's who want to go the extra mile to craft something special. A 500 tick on an area of players is plenty enough. CM damage should be very game breaking to a group with no doctors, it should not be game breaking to a group with doctors. I believe we are currently seeing CM's game-breaking combat teams with doctors.... my hope is that the recent changes in CM correct this.
Calls for 75% nerfs are a little extreme, but as you all know... some poisons are way over the top.
again gentleman, this is based on a rare loot. With out the rare loot you can't get those numbers and you can barely reach 500, so please when you make comparisons make them based on the normal everyday stuff.
I have a pistoleer in my guild witha legendary FWG5 that has something like 520 max damage, I don't go around saying that all pistoleers need to get their 520 max damage nerfed, I base my jugdement on the avg 200 realm FWG5 pistols.
If you're not a CM who has some feedback on today's changes, go away.
InikoIra wrote:
again gentleman, this is based on a rare loot. With out the rare loot you can't get those numbers and you can barely reach 500, so please when you make comparisons make them based on the normal everyday stuff.
I have a pistoleer in my guild witha legendary FWG5 that has something like 520 max damage, I don't go around saying that all pistoleers need to get their 520 max damage nerfed, I base my jugdement on the avg 200 realm FWG5 pistols.
Yea, I agree with Bamboozle, this thread is on the path to hijack. I was just responding to a question one of you had and will take it no further.
In quick response to this post quoted however I'd point out that I used the word "stack" in front of "+1000 tick". While you don't go around crying for pisoleer nerf because of a 520 max damage pistol, you might want to refresh yourself about the fact that you can stack 6 different, non-enhanced poisons on a person for over a +1000 tick. Don't leave that out of the picture because stacking is deadly. A stacked area A, B, and C will tick for +1000.
And now.. back to the thread.
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