Combat Medic Archive
Thread: How to balance CM without the massive nerf that would kill it...
I guess you are right. So the only solution is Sony's: Nerf CMs damage by 75%.
Personally I would rather give docs a perk...
Protteus wrote:
Yea it's lookin pretty much like dmg nerf, or AoE cures. The devs are too lazy to implement any of your so called fixes, that are complicated and drawn out. I will be glad to get AoE cures, or cm nerf. Either is fine. Just give us something so that 2 doctors can effectively cure a group.
Have you tried actually using effective cures?
How about we nerf it the same way the flame was nerf'ed for commandos?
Or do you think that your hand throw poision should travel farther then my rocket propled grenade?
How about hit it with the PVP reducer to make it only 50 mind disease a tick and only have 4 ticks max before reapplying?
Or you can do what they did to the CH and rearrange the whole tree making it a requirement to have master to be able to use anything of use. (Good job on making pets useless in PvP)
I am tired of this proffession making all other Combat proffessions obsolete. Your time has come Mr. CM time to feel the nerf bat at full swing.
GrueLokk wrote:
Ive sen this posted here and there but alot of people havent looked deep enough into it..
Just make them non prejudice. As soon as its out of the CM's hands let it hit anyone overt or teffed in its area of impact. That would require strategy to be useful, outside of 1v1 conflict. No more would someone toss an area poison at thier base, it would nuke them and thier adversaries. No moreflinging of small pox caliber aerial viruses, while in he heat of a group battle. This would become not only extremely decisive in pvp, but it would eliminate 90% of the poisons thrown half assed. Please post your comments. Im sorry, i am Master Cm and if you guys force us to have a 75% reduction across the board i might as well be a master medic with less effectiveness than a commando outside of a base raid... I think this would solve everyones problems. Please post your view on the idea.
Message Edited by GrueLokk on 04-24-2004 08:47 PM
Personally I'm a Rifleman not a CM and would like to see that happen to all AOE shots(Strafe 2, Flurry2, Flushing 2, and even crappy ass Starle 2). I think it would make the game more interesting if you actions could harm your comrades.....
Message Edited by Georb79 on 05-03-2004 09:06 PM
Georb79 wrote:
How about giving doctors the ability to area cure poisions and diseases with out any mind cost at all? I think that would be fair and balanced. Then hit them with the pvp damage reduction. remember CM is not a tank he is a support fighter(if you can call it that) He should not be the one doing all the damage.
Morganite wrote:
Georb79 wrote:
How about giving doctors the ability to area cure poisions and diseases with out any mind cost at all? I think that would be fair and balanced. Then hit them with the pvp damage reduction. remember CM is not a tank he is a support fighter(if you can call it that) He should not be the one doing all the damage.
A tank? A tank is something referred to in this game as someone who takes on something or someone at close range, allowing others to do the real damage.. An example would be a fencer tanking a krayt for a rifleman.
you other idea is great, no mind cost for cures, balance that with no mind cost for delivering the med that requires a cure. give us 75% reduction, then also give armor and buffs a 75% reduction, and nobody would need to be a cm anymore...
Bring pvp decay back, who needed to be a cm to hurt people back when everyone was wearing underwear?
Your Joking right? YOUR A MEDIC NOT A DAMAGE DEALER. Can't you get that through your head. My missiles should blast you into oblivian not the other way around it. You are a tank simple as that you can run into a group of 20 people poision kill them all in 4 ticks and then a rifleman 80 meters away can db. Your telling me that if fair? who are you kidding? Regardless I just figured out why your proffession will stay as it is. You can read the edit above to see what it is.
Last night I got hit with a 500 a tick poision and your telling me that my master doctor shouldnt have thrown area cure poision packs which cost nothing to use? Even with 1 tick you have cleared the way for any rifleman to clean up the remaining people. Now lets go to you not being able to defend yourself, first according to your statment you are not a tank, but yet you still want to be able to defend yourself? Weird. I guess you wana be a person who totally ignores armour and be able to go head to head with either a TKM or MBH yea then why bother having other proffessions when you go be a rifleman and Combat medic. I mean I still can't believe CM has a range of 94 meters Who do you know that can throw 300 feet? with perfect accuracy. Yea your right you should have that and the ability to poision 20 people at once and the ability to go head to head with the best melee proffession out there.
This isnt a attack on all CM some of you wanted to be a CM this is a attack on those of you who cried that CH is overpowered for 4 months straight and had us completely removed from PvP.
Georb79 wrote:
Morganite wrote:
Georb79 wrote:
How about giving doctors the ability to area cure poisions and diseases with out any mind cost at all? I think that would be fair and balanced. Then hit them with the pvp damage reduction. remember CM is not a tank he is a support fighter(if you can call it that) He should not be the one doing all the damage.
A tank? A tank is something referred to in this game as someone who takes on something or someone at close range, allowing others to do the real damage.. An example would be a fencer tanking a krayt for a rifleman.
you other idea is great, no mind cost for cures, balance that with no mind cost for delivering the med that requires a cure. give us 75% reduction, then also give armor and buffs a 75% reduction, and nobody would need to be a cm anymore...
Bring pvp decay back, who needed to be a cm to hurt people back when everyone was wearing underwear?
Your Joking right? YOUR A MEDIC NOT A DAMAGE DEALER. Actually I am a pikeman/doc now, because I tired of being a Cm/DOC, and not dying for weeks on end because 90% of the players in this game have the tactical skills of a newborn baby.Can't you get that through your head. My missiles should blast you into oblivian not the other way around it. You are a tank simple as that you can run into a group of 20 people Let me stop you right there, more stupidity coming from nerf posters. how in the world could someone with a whopping 5 melee and 9 ranged defense run into a group of 20 people and be able to do anything?poision kill them all in 4 ticks More disinformation, poison does not kill, disease does not kill, the 2 together can incap.and then a rifleman 80 meters away can db. Correct me if I am wrong, but cannot rifleman only db from 64 meters? Your telling me that if fair?I was unaware life became fair, when did this happen?who are you kidding? Regardless I just figured out why your proffession will stay as it is. You can read the edit above to see what it is.
Last night I got hit with a 500 a tick poision and your telling me that my master doctor shouldnt have thrown area cure poision packs which cost nothing to use? I would like to know how he got the skill to area cure when nobody else has managed it..Even with 1 tick you have cleared the way for any rifleman to clean up the remaining people.Now you haveadded another profession complaint into a discussion about complaints about CM's skills.Now lets go to you not being able to defend yourself, first according to your statment you are not a tank, but yet you still want to be able to defend yourself? You are having difficulty understanding me, I believe a CM's defenses are fine as is, just explaining what the commonly accepted definition of "tanking" in this game is.Weird. I guess you wana be a person who totally ignores armour and be able to go head to head with either a TKM or MBH The only people who ever killed me were rifleman,TKM's or fencers, BH's? they are a joke in pvp except when their deficencies can be hidden in groups.yea then why bother having other proffessions when you go be a rifleman and Combat medic. I mean I still can't believe CM has a range of 94 meters Who do you know that can throw 300 feet? with perfect accuracy. I have gone on record numerous times saying this BUG needs to be fixed.Yea your right you should have that and the ability to poision 20 people at once and the ability to go head to head with the best melee proffession out there.
This isnt a attack on all CM some of you wanted to be a CM this is a attack on those of you who cried that CH is overpowered for 4 months straight and had us completely removed from PvP. I was also a CH back in the day, and hated every change the CH profession got stuck with since sept.
Georb79 wrote:
*edit* never mind I just figured out why they cant affect your poision packs. Its because they are considered a medical pack and any adjustment to them could potentially ruin the doctor proffession. So I guess you guys win unless the have time to recode your proffession it will always stay like it is now un filtered poisions and you will always be the strongest combat proffession.
Message Edited by Georb79 on 05-03-2004 09:06 PM
Your Joking right? YOUR A (combat)MEDIC NOT A DAMAGE DEALER. Can't you get that through your head. My missiles should blast you into oblivian not the other way around it. Actually your missles are AP0 and dont do that much damage in pvp as opposed to a t21.
You are a tank simple as that you can run into a group of 20 people poision kill them all in 4 ticks and then a rifleman 80 meters away can db. Your telling me that if fair? who are you kidding? Regardless I just figured out why your proffession will stay as it is. You can read the edit above to see what it is. Nope, no tank here. A tank is supposed to survive an attack. Melee are tanks, CMs are wet contagious tissue paper that someone will break if they blow to hard on them.Melee mitigate massive amounts of ranged AND melee damage plus their dps caps way early on. Once again I see alot of misinformation being spewed here. We dont kill anyone with our MIND poison, we just debilitate them.
Last night I got hit with a 500 a tick poision and your telling me that my master doctor shouldnt have thrown area cure poision packs which cost nothing to use? Even with 1 tick you have cleared the way for any rifleman to clean up the remaining people. 500? That MIND poison was only so so but then again they're pretty dependent on the resources used. But here's a reason why doctors shouldn't and never will get an area cure. 1 Doctor cancels out 1 CM. 1 Doctor with area cures cancels out 5 CMs. Our poisons dont tick right when they land and a master doctor can cure roughly 3 people before the first tick goes off. Aww the poor little doctor has to do something other than dizzy/kd people so now he grumbles. I can stack an A, B, and C class poison on someone and with one curepoison C all 3 of those are cured. I'm stuck trying to stack a health and action on top of the MIND (which is your real beef and not our other 2 types) so that it will tick before the doctor can cure them, meanwhile I'mrooted to my throwing spot and am a prime target.Its balanced. Want to negate a CM, bring a doc. Want to negate a doc or at least keep him busy? Bring a CM. Now lets go to you not being able to defend yourself, first according to your statment you are not a tank, but yet you still want to be able to defend yourself? Weird. I guess you wana be a person who totally ignores armour and be able to go head to head with either a TKM or MBH yea then why bother having other proffessions when you go be a rifleman and Combat medic. I mean I still can't believe CM has a range of 94 meters Who do you know that can throw 300 feet? with perfect accuracy. Yea your right you should have that and the ability to poision 20 people at once and the ability to go head to head with the best melee proffession out there. Woot another person to bring up the 94m deal which he's probably one read on the boards and has no clue what its all about. You know I've been hit by a poison at 80m once and it did crap for damage. Make that an area for the full 94m effect and it'll do even less damage. This is a bug the dev's have already acknowledged and will be fixing in the next publish capping us at 64m (but no word if the area effect will extend further) Actually no CM can go head to head with a TKM or MBH. In a face to face fight if I dont get the poison off on the MBH right away I wont ever do it as he'll do a fire knockdown then eyeshot me (moreMIND damage in a shorter period of time than any of my MIND poisons even with armor) while I cant run or fight back (death dizzy loop). With TKM I can get a MIND poison off but he's already dizzy/kd 'd me right afterwards making it impossible to run or fight back. Even with 90% kinetic armor he's still landing 100-300 every SECOND. He can even use headhit1 and still beat out my poisons. As a rifleman you'd better have a stun layered helm when you go toe to toe with me as I'll incap and db you before the second tick of my MIND poison goes off. But lets do some math here. Ok my good stuff does 620 mind damage every 10 seconds. You have a 1100 MIND, but with brandy its now 2000. If you're a TKM with pb or if you use vercupti (not just for pets now) its now 3000 or 4000 if you're a tkm and use both. Ok so for the 2000 its going to take me roughly 40sec before your mind is empty. Hmm if you haven't beaten me anda buddy in 40sec you really ought to get out of pvp.You get a full 60sec if you've done your homework and got to 3000.And if you're a tkm and at 4000 you've already db'd me, my friend, and his friend and are meditating the MIND poison away. That estimate includes your MIND regen but doesn't take into account you spamming specials but oh well no ones perfect. Yeah,that lingering effect after we're dead kinda sucksbut your doctor should have taken care of it.What you didn't bring a doctor? Who ever said that PvP was going tobea completely solo event?
Yeah I think cho-nor-hoola should be able to bebioengineer enhanced much higher than its current 25%cap but then again the real answer is coming in the next public. "Lilka" a new smuggler spice with the effect "mindpoison mitigation".Funny how its MIND but no other poison is mentioned.
This isnt a attack on all CM some of you wanted to be a CM this is a attack on those of you who cried that CH is overpowered for 4 months straight and had us completely removed from PvP. Actually this is just an attack on all CM's by you. If you wanted to grief CH's uselessness then do it on your own forums. Welcome to a SUPPORT role like the rest of us CM's. Send in your pet, get yourself incapped and db'd, meanwhile your pet is beating someone down until it is beat down. Personally I'd rather be doing more active things than a 1 shot disposable. Even rocket launchers get 30 charges.
Boba-Fett30 wrote:
gruelokk it is one of the most skillpoint using professions but so is commando and that is basically **edit** in PvP. so why should CM beable to do as much dmg as a tka can on someone withOUT armor.
to fix this there should be poison and disease curing food or drugs
Somone need an edjucasioooon *jingle* *jingle*
Quoting myself from an earlier post. Now, try these figures with TKA damage, be sure to apply reduction for resistance.
Please do note that TKA damage output is much higher when your target is Dizzy/KD
CaptainCalamity wrote:
not better... what makes you believe that CMs deserve to be exempt from the 75% reduction? Every other Combat Profession is subject to it.
we'll make this an exercise in mathematics:
At master what is the best attack you can pull of at the speed cap?
How much damage will that result in, on average?
How often will that hit? Don't be affraid to make an thourogh statistic comparison agains any opponent. I reccomend you pull of at least 100 attacks, preferably more. Make a percentage. Misses, dodges and counterattacks all count as lost attacks.
Do you have access to stun damage?
Do you have High AP?
Ok... now I assume you will be able to pull of 10 attacks at an average of 1500 damage.
15 000 damage for 10 seconds
I will assume that you will lose about 33% of your attacks.
9 900 damage for 10 seconds
To this, a 75% damage reduction will be applied in PvP
2475 damage for 10 seconds
If you have stun damage the most damage reduction you will encounter is somewhere around 47%, right?
1311 damage for 10 seconds (or 131 DPS, most CM poisons are in the range of 60 DPS)
When AP and other higher resists come into play I must confess I can't keep up with the statistics any more, so I beg that someone with more knowledge of the system does that for me. I have to point out though that 1311 damage for 10 seconds is pretty good. It is better than any poison I've ever heard of. We can make another quick example using slightly diffrent numbers.
I will assume that you hit for 2300 damage every second, however you will lose 50% of these attacks:
23 000 / 2 = 11 500 * 0.25 = 2875 * 0.53 = 1523 damage per 10 seconds or 1523 DPS
I will assume that you understand what I'm trying to say and understand how this proves that Combat Medic damage doesn't need an 75% reduction. I could accept a slight reduction (say 33%) if we got an at least 100% increase in our PvE damage.
You can drag up the tired old AOE argument of course but remember that these calculations still hold true for Strafe Shot or other AoE attacks from the other combat professions, it's just that the numbers have to be recalculated. Also remember that if more than 6 persons get caugth inside an AOE attack (of any profession) they need to rethink their strategy.
Besides, AOE poisons always do significantly less damage than single shot poisons.
About Flame Throwers that the original poster stated. I wasn't aware that flame DOTs came more sparesly than once every 40 seconds (since they cause wounds they should be compared to diseases not poisons) but that's possible... I don't hang around commandos all that much...Besides remember that Flame Throwers do initial damage when used. CM meds don't.