CUEmu - Thread Posts

Pahdbacca

Tue May 04, 2004 1:01 pm

I think the the Combat Vs Support or 'Dev Vision' question is still a worthy question but there are several issues to keep in mind if we are to decide to ask it.

This question has been asked by several CM corresopondents and never directly answered in a thread where that question was one of the main topics. It has sort of been answered once in a thread by one of the devs actually talking about another corr asking about the vison of their profession. I cannot relate what was said because 1) I was never given permission to repost it and 2) I can't remember the exact workind and that would create even more problems.

Several other correspondents have asked similar questions about what is the 'vision of our profession?' Honestly, I do not ever remember any of them recieving an answer. The closest to a resonse I have seen is another question, with the powers that be askiing this of the players. Honestly,I see it as a blow-off at worst, or a grave misunderstanding of the way the playerbase sees balancing at best. I'm not sure about the other professions, but I think CMs deserved an answer because not even they could agree at the time.

The advent of Doc buffs and uber res armor has made healing less important in the game at the moment. Because of this, and the fact that range and AoE stims are still kinda buggy about LOS and invalid targets, there is not much that CMs can offer in support that a doc or even a master medic cannot. It is my thought that this has thrust CMs into the combat role, whether they want to be there or not.

My personal argument about the issue is now as follows....

Bhelly wrote:

I would agree except for one issue. Is Combat medic a primary combat profession or is it a support profession? Please don't take this as a rip on you, I honestly want to have a constructive discussion on this.

Combat Medics themselves do not know if they are combat or support professions. They have been asking the Devs for a statemant as to what role CMs should play in SWG broadly and what role in GCW specifically for several months now. We have yet to hear anything form anybody besides TH... And guess what he said. 'What do you think Combat Medics should be?' This was back when the CM community was about 50/50 combat/support. I will continue more on this subject below the quote, but will continue to answer a few more of your questions here.

<snipped a couple of more points>

So the question is. What is CM? A primary or support combat profession? You can't have both.

Support abilities of CMs

Ranged heals
AOE heals
Mind heal

Support abilities CMs do not get: healstates, rez, buffs, cure poison, cure disease, buffs

Problems with the support abilities that they do get... Like I said above, they can't fully experiment on their own healing components. Ranged and AOE heals have VERY buggy LOS issues, including being blocked by terrain higher than knee high and inability to target with meds in crowded areas or indoors. My guild had a big time on the fly strategy change fighting Lord Nyax when Pip got the 'Invalid target' message trying to use ranged and AOE heals when fighting Lord Nyax. He was essentially reduced to a master Medic with the ability to mind heal in that battle.

Speaking of mind heal...40 wounds to mind, will and focus the first time you use it...and wounds increase after that. Plus it is not ranged and CMs cannot heal their own minds.

And as it stands, who really needs that emergency ranged heal right now with buffs and 80% composite armor? Not a lot of people.

So after all that....would you master CM at a cost of 169 points to be considered a support profession?

Combat abilities CMs get

poisons
diseases
ability to do mind damage

Combat abilities CMs do not get: direct damage, mitigation, defense bonuses (Dancers and musicians get better combat defence bonuses than CMs...check it and see)

Essentially, as of right now, CMs have to be considered a combat class because thoseare the only abilities that are functioning.

Nerf CM DoTs and what do you get?

Master medics with a gimped mind heal and good terrain negotiation.

IMO (And PLEASE post if you disagree with me as a CM) This is still a valid issue. WE suck as asupport profession now. Master medics can heal just as much damage to single targets using doc crafted stims as CMs can with their stims. Yes, we can heal at range and with AoE if those abilities are working as they should...but I believe they are not.

Therefore....CMs need fixing/luv if they are considered a support profession.

If they are to be considered a combat profession...let's face it. There is not a more one sided combat profession in this game. 169 skill points to throw poisons and diseases at a master level.

Therefore....CMs need fixing/luv if they are considered acombat profession.

Back to the purpose of this post....If we ask this question, we either need to make it one sided enought to say that the CM community thinks they are a 'fill in the blank here' profession. If the Devs disagree, these are the following things that need fixed.... Or we need to say that 'the community is deadlocked about the role of CMs' and we want the Dev's to break the tie.

My 2 cents, sorry about your eyes, but I do feel a little better now.

-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata

jfang

Tue May 04, 2004 2:39 pm

#15

If we are trying to get an answer to silence the trolls, a better question to ask would be of the form:

"Many people have complained about the largeamount of damage and the area effect of poisons and diseases (and lack of area cures) in PvP combat. Others have voiced concerns about the small amount ofdamage poisons do in PvE combat.Do the devs still consider poisons and diseases to be acting as intended? If not, what are the currently ideas for fixing it. Please answer seperately for PvP and PvE combat."

Of course, I still think the "what is the vision of combat medics" question is more valid (as I'm more interested in the overall direction of the profession and knowing the devs have a general idea, rather than the implementation of it). That's just me.

jfang

Tue May 04, 2004 2:47 pm

#16

Another question, expandingIlamasool's question,that might be askable would be the big one:

"How will the mind be healable in the combat revamp. Is it just with stims, in which case what is to prevent somebody from stimming themselves infinitely? (And given that the healmind ability is now redundant, what, if anything, will combat medics get to replace that ability?)"

This is most likely the biggest question, and everybody in the entire combat community wants to know the answer.

Note I am *not* voting for this question. It is too big, and the answer almost certainly be be "wait and see". Just pointing it out though.

Pahdbacca

Tue May 04, 2004 2:50 pm

#17

I agree. IF we decide to ask this, it should not be to silence the trolls. 95 % peeps who have not played CM for a reasonable duration can begin to appreciate the ins and outs of the class....and very few of that 95% are willing to learn.

We should spend the time to decide what to ask based upon what WE want to know....This seems to be the closest thing to actuall feedback that we have received to date.

Don't hate the CM....Hate the mind pool....

-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata

Ledao

Tue May 04, 2004 4:14 pm

#18

This is kinda funny... Any interesting question that we might ask hinges on the combat balance... And they're not likely to be spilling the beans on that.

At any rate, I'd like to know at least something about the HAM revamp before it happens... I have a great deal of trouble imagining a scenario where a CM kills anyone at all if they allow healing of all 3 pools...

I mean, if mind is no longer unhealable, even pistoleers will do significantly more real damage than CMs.

A question along these lines (I realize that's vague, but something to do with "how will CMs kill anyone?" -- how will anyone kill anyone, for that matter -- needs to be asked, I think) would also, if answered, provide a fairly accurate guage of what our role is to be...

They should (I hope) have a pretty clear vision of the combat and HAM revamp by now -- at least enough to answer a question of this sort...

Ledao Bohi, Master Doctor
Now with 3 locations: Ledao's Meds in beautiful downtown Galatorbria, Rori (327 -1770), Ledao's Fine Pharmaceuticals @ UAT City, near Coronet (970, -5590), and Ledao's Premium Meds and Resources on Tatooine @ (-1922, -4041) just 750m SW of Bestine.
Comprehensive Stock and Price Listing Here

MasterPilot11

Tue May 04, 2004 5:22 pm

#19

I'd go along with the question, "Will we get anything new?" Such as...poison gun, or even better, being able to add poison/disease DOT to any weapon, gun/melee. Add it as a powerup, just one that lasts longer, so we have a service to society. Sort of like slicing, but temporary. (Substantially longer than a powerup however)

Kazz Alow- changing professions atm
Kazzalow- Master Swordsman / Master Teras Kasi / Master Brawler

Behold the power of the wookish

TaleDennon

Tue May 04, 2004 5:57 pm

#20

I really like that last Idea, "affixing DoT's to weapons" that would be an excellent way to make money.

Tale Dennon
Master Smuggler - Master Bounty Hunter
Recenty respecced to BH just to use Last Ditch on Jedi,
All thanks to a fantastic Jedi named I_luv_wob.
"Who's Scruffy Lookin'?"

Morganite

Tue May 04, 2004 8:05 pm

#21

I think getting them to comment on disease and it's affect's will answer the COMBAT medic/combat MEDIC question by default.

We will either get 1 of 2 answers:

1) disease is doing as we want it to in pvp, and we are considering way's of improving it in pve or it is working "as intended" for pve.

2) we feel disease is overpowered, andthis will be accordingly addressed in the combat balance (not a real answer, a means only of getting a question out of the way without giving any kind of answer, and thus dodging our 1 question.

I feel this is good for us with either answer. If they answer with answer 1, this takes all the grief a CM gets now, and direct's it back to the dev's, who created this problem in the first place.

or answer 2, which again is an excuse, shows we are concerned about the community's feelings, and we can direct them to the dev's answer and direct them to whine to their priest or whomever they want, but not us.

MMM Industries, found at 2540 -4661 near Mos eisley. Food, weapons, powerups, armor, med's, speeders, repair tools, we have it all..

Offer all auction winnings to the food vendor at said waypoint..

Pahdbacca

Wed May 05, 2004 12:57 am

#22

/sigh lithium

Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 05-04-2004 04:01 PM

-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata

Loonytic

Wed May 05, 2004 1:11 am

#23

how about:

Applying poison and disease to a playerresults in theplayerbecome incapped, and is seen as griefing.Is this working as intended or a bug?

Message Edited by Loonytic on 05-05-2004 09:12 AM

Pappi

Wed May 05, 2004 1:38 am

#24

Mild-Breeze-Trooper wrote:
That was really a suggestion more than a question But it was valid.
What I'd like to know though is what the devs vision for us really is.
Can we get a definite answer about wether we are "combat MEDICS" or "COMBAT medics". Are we supposed to be damage dealers, which the ammount of agressive schematics we are given over the ammount of healing schematics do suggest.
Or are we supposed to be a "support" (as in "supporting the total domination of defense stackers") profession?
Are we supposed to be very deadly in PvP but ineffective in PvE?

an answer to that wuold be VERY nice, but if it's not a realistic question (ie TH might throw us a "you guys were meant as both"), i would prefer to pick something else... like LOS, or PvE abilities.

stupid_people_happen . .

Pappi Inc Tailoring (home of the black tax) - Odi's meds and chef tissues - closed
- I support literacy, common sense, and apostrophes

vortexala

Wed May 05, 2004 7:16 am

#25

Loonytic wrote:
how about:
Applying poison and disease to a playerresults in theplayerbecome incapped, and is seen as griefing.Is this working as intended or a bug?
Message Edited by Loonytic on 05-05-2004 09:12 AM

Submitted with our Top 5 as the Correspondent issue

~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...

jfang

Wed May 05, 2004 4:10 pm

#26

Upon thinking about it, is the question "are combat medics more combat, or more medic" really a viable one to ask? What I mean is, what answers can the devs in theory give, and what do we learn? As I figure, if they answer "we originally envisioned you as more medics in the field", or "you are originally meant to be soldiers who use alternative means of weapons" that's all well and good, and we have learned something important. However, the answer I would most expect (and also the least useful) is of the form:

"We don't really have an exact idea what combat medics should be, much like every class. It is constantly changing. Combat medics were originally intended to deal with all non-shooting aspects of ranged combat, as contrasted with doctors who deal with close range healing. This includes stims, poisons, and diseases. We are also listening to the community to hear what they want from the class, and adjust the class appropriately."

This very much answers a "what are combat medics" type of question. However, it does not provide any insight into where we currently stand, or where we are likely going in the future (which is the intent of the question).

This being said, do people still want to ask this question? I don't want to ask about a bug (whichgiven last question will be answered by"we are working on it, hopefully soon"), or a combat revamp question (which will be replied by a "wait and see" answer, much like last time). I'd say we almost have to ask a question about new content (items, missions, etc).

Then again, I might just be being paranoid. If we do ask the question of "are we combat, or are we medic", in theory, what kind of answer do you want to hear, and (more importantly) what answer do you expect to hear?

Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Bi-Weekly Question: What should we ask next?