Combat Medic Archive
Thread: What is the main problem you have with the +1 change
Austrian wrote:
"Sure, thats a way to survive a commandos flamethrower, but it doesn't fix the balance issue of a single weapon for a single profession being orders of magnatude more powerful than any other without having any real limitations on it. It has penalties to hit at long range, but 64m for a flamethrower is an obscene max range. It needs to be in line with the tangle and sr combat pistols at the very least. The commando has other weapons at their disposal for long range anyway."
And you justify a 70m+ range poison how?
I don't. But thats really the flaw with having a weapon with an experimental range isn't it. Once people get a hold of truly high quality ingredients they'll be able to do amazing things. Like how most every combat class equipped with a good weapon has a 50/50 chance or better against a yellow conning monster despite the fact they should almost never be able to defeat one.
Personally I've never made a poison pack with a range > 54m I just don't have the resources.
All in all though, considering the time and money we need to invest in gathering resources, that our weapons are disposable, and that very soon they probably won't even incap someone, a 70m range doesn't seem unreasonable for a small percentage of the CMs who find the resources that will allow them to go that high, and make the sacrifice to damage and effectiveness to take it. Oh... that reminds me. it would have to be a master combat medic to get that kind of range. so there is a skill point investment as well.
It would be rather retarded to use poisons with very low ranges, because like it or not a BH will spam you with mind shot and you will very probably be dead before he is.
Now of course you can wear a composite helmet, but not every combat medic is able to afford a real good one with 60%+ resists.
You can't base and balance our profession on it's max abilities, which basically are all ressoures are there (yeah right) in superior quality (rofl) and you have unlimited cash to afford the very best Composite armor and a few MK3 shield generators and perhaps a few working (lol) skill tapes. You haveto balance it for the casual mediocre dude you seem to despise, because he's too stupid or doesn't log enough hours to do what you can.
You can't only cater to powergamers or very good player if you want you have to do something for the casual player too.
Almost 33% of all my PvP kills are while I am incapped. The other guy (PvP AND PvE) very often gets ganked by my poison as he's running up to DB me. Most of the time, I get up before him and get the DB. (Depending on how hard he last hit me). I am going to loose A LOT of extra faction from this nerf.
/votes NO TO THE +1 Poison NERF!
WHY must they nerf our main weapon so it no longer incapps? That is the lamest nerf they have done to date! I never even thought about dropping my master combat medic in the past... but this has got me thinking about it. I WILL NOT BE a 169 skill point UBER STIM DISPENSER! Why can't we be expected to play the game solo? Why MUST we have to be in a big ol group to play the game? LAME!
/No
/No
/NO!
I TOLD them they should have made our spherical space station out of the same magnetically shielded walls as the garbage compactor! -Sleksheea Sleksheea,
Almost 33% of all my PvP kills are while I am incapped.
I think of any statement you've made regarding this, this one is the most telling. Poisons, as currently configured really allow for this sort of strategy....where frequently you don't have to fear an incap.
Why? Because we can craft poisons with a potency that is far beyond any other class's realistic accuracy in the game. You can run in, drop an AOE and either run or not, relatively certain that if it's not a completely chaotic street brawl and that you can last about 20 seconds, you don't mind getting incapped....because you'll drop them before they close to you.
Current game mechanics allow for this. And they allow for this in our class alone. We dominate PvP because of this ability right now...and no class should dominate.
The reality is that after this you will be able to PvP solo, just not as mindlessly. I am confident that even as a MD/MCM mix I can do this solo(though i'm temporarily not doc right now at the behest of a holo). What it means is more singles, less AOE and choosing your targets. What it means is relying more on tactics, thought and intuition than the single function key that holds your AOE mind poison. It means you can't play Wyatt Earp anymore...but it a role we never should have been able to play.
I have read your comments in several threads in this forum and remain utterly unconvinced of your arguments. I play the template that will be affected hardest by this proposed change, and I remain in favor of it. There is virtually no challenge in PvP for a MD/MCM right now who cares about quality (an MD/MCM who dies frequently on Tempest has no one to blame but themselves). This will help return it.
That you believe this change will reduce you to being a stim dispenser is also telling, not so much of the magnitude of this nerf, but rather ofan inability to see/use the varied tactics available to this profession. This profession can and will survive, in both group combat and solo. It might not be quite as easy, but it will be more rewarding.
I find a very odd parallel between those who want to complain 'why can't I contine to PvP solo this way' and the Imps who wanted 3 AT-STs out, and the CHs a long ways back who wanted a rancor zoo with them in PvE. Right now in PvP, to a MCM who cares about quality (and has good ingredients in their galaxy) we have similar power, and the odds are that much in our favor.
They shouldn't have had it, and neither should we. We can debate the merits of other fixes relative to this (range, potency)...and we will because they will come. But regardless of either, incapping AOE [mind] poisons make the PvP too easy. There is no tactics to it, and we, more than any other class, reduce PvP to a cloning street brawl. Even if docs got AOE heals, it would be much the same wtih a critical piont of inflection...who got the last shot in ...poison or cure. If it was the CM we'd still decide the battle. And in large scale PvP, no class should decide the battle. Shape it...yes.
In my opinion, this profession, the GCW, and the game as a whole, will be much better off after this change...when we will be forced to think more, and the rest of the paying customers in this game are no longer here for our PvP amusement.
Jacore MCM (temp retired MD), Tempest
A 70m range is not under any circumstances justified. A friend of mine just made his first 72m range 88 potency poison without any experimentation. After Experimentation it turned into a 72m range 88 potency 205 eff 30m AE poison. Still think this is justified?
Of course this is an insane highend poison with 999 OQ 979 Cond copper, etc.
But you can buy a 33 range 85 potency 270 eff single in my shop. Its not hard to make good poisons. It may be hard for a casual gamer, but a casual gamer isnt PvPing anyways.
When you look at the capabilities of a class you have to look at what the class can do when a dedicated player plays it. If all people were casual gamers in this game, noone would come here screaming nerf.
>>A 70m range attack that you can't protect yourself at ALL against is justified? You can at least get a helmet against a BH, but you cant do anything against a poison.
The TK meditate line can heal poison/disease in about 4 seconds. Costs about 49 skill points to get(brawler + unarmed +meditate line) for a non brawler and 34 skill points for a brawler. Plus you get powerboost (increases your HAM signifcantly - there are 6k 6k 3k HAM Mdoc/MTKs running around now - duel one in a city, bring friends) and Force of Will (Pop back up immediately from incap).
How many CMs in here have tried to DB a Master TK one on one lately? What happened? A TK can time it just right to pop up, use kd2 and kill you.
I think you will find nhillism, if you start being more picky with ingredients and drop AOE bombs for singles that they will not survive.
From experiments I've done with a TKM friend on Tempest, they have the ability to survive around 300 point poisons if they meditate immediately...a bit beyond that unbuffed/powerboost/etc.
To one who's boosted, had a buff and popped muon they are significantly more threatening....and they should be.
Taking such a TKM is still fairly easy for a MCM that things about tactics and is willing to have a patience longer than 20 seconds. TKMs prefer city fights for cover from ranged. CMs can excell at city fights as well, using LOS to their advantage same as TKMs.
You wanna stand there and 'fight like a man' with a TKM? You'll get your arse handed to you every time...and you'd deserve it.
There is no reason that a MCM can't win the overwhelming majority of battles wtih a TKM if the MCM is willing to actually craft multiple types of piosons for different uses, be picky with ingredients, and think tactically during an engatement instead of just standing there playing 'king of the hill'.
Jacore
Lol, BS. I got Master Meditation techniques (+75 meditation) and was three shot instead of two shot with a 270 eff poison. If you're lucky you can meditate an AE poison away before it causes you too much dmg. No chance to survive a single target unless mindbuffed by a Master Dancer/Musician. Besides, the CM only has to be in attack mode on the TKA and he cant meditate. I suggest you actually get the ability before you post something about it. Just like the people coming here posting about the 90m poison. Force of will is bugged atm as well (Taking off all HAM points but not puting you up again) and lol, an enemy with no HAM points left can really really be dangerous. I never had a problem against a MTK/Doc. And why should I? With my 80% Kinetic comp armor I laugh at the dmg they do even when I lie on the floor (which is if I wait till he closed up the 70m).
And again Force of Will has a CHANCE to work. if it works you 'pop up' with no HAM points and no, you can NOT use any specials without any HAM points.
>>Lol, BS. I got Master Meditation techniques (+75 meditation) and was three shot instead of two shot with a 270 eff poison. If you're lucky you can meditate an AE poison away before it causes you too much dmg. No chance to survive a single target unless mindbuffed by a Master Dancer/Musician. Besides, the CM only has to be in attack mode on the TKA and he cant meditate. I suggest you actually get the ability before you post something about it. Just like the people coming here posting about the 90m poison. Force of will is bugged atm as well (Taking off all HAM points but not puting you up again) and lol, an enemy with no HAM points left can really really be dangerous. I never had a problem against a MTK/Doc. And why should I? With my 80% Kinetic comp armor I laugh at the dmg they do even when I lie on the floor (which is if I wait till he closed up the 70m).
I can see you havent used force of will lately or tried to mediate out of a poison lately, or are just mistaken. I have a CM and my GF is a TK. We play in the same RL house. We duel all the time. Trymeditating again after you powerboost after eating some food or spice. Do you not have all of your points in mind?
Force of will, you get up with enough HAM to do aKD or flame 1.You dont get up with 'no ham'. Let me know what you think of this.
>>never had a problem against a MTK/Doc. And why should I?
Have you fought a TK with 6k 6k 3kish HAM in a city yet. Let me know. Dizzy kd and u will not get up. Composite makes no difference. Have you fought one?
Well to austrian first...i have 88m poisons...so I think I'm arguably close to 90m
As to TKM, yes they've had a significant boost, but you really need to take into account the setting of your duel.
TKA and CM both use the same cover tactics in city battles, or should.
A TK/CM battle in a city comes down to who's the aggressor. A smart MCM and TKM will and should realize that the aggressor dies, and therefore call it a stalemate.
In open battle (which a smart TKM will rarely do) the MCM wins unless she's asleep at the wheel.
Jacore
Jacore I think me and you are on the same page, for the most part. I think people are comparing the power of CM AND other classes you can get with CM. I think we have different basic premises on vision and balance that makes us disagree.
I think once you compare a class to what it has AND the other things it can get, it opens pandoras box, and the other classes become evenmore balanced compared to a CM as is. I think people just don't dizzy/kd in groups enough to realize how good a strat it is. I don't think people know that charge shot 1 (carbineer 0002) doesn't have kd timer applied to it. I don't think people know you can make an assist macro that actually works and have a riflemen dizzy and then a carbineer use the assist macroto 1 time KOkd on anything with 2 legs. I dont think people know that those 2skills are very easy to get. The people that know this are the people that I compare combat medic to.