Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Don't read this if you like combat medic, I'm posting because I don't.... logically
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cheserna
Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:54 pm
#1
Looking down the list or professions in star wars galaxies, I always found in interesting to see what people think is "uber" and what draws people to certain professions.... I myself have always loved fencing.. because quite simply I think it looks cool... I fenced before fencers had working defences and I needed bounty hunters to kill everyone for me with eyeshot..... I fenced when warcry2 was great... and when dodge was insane.. and I still fence. But I never quite have the same frustration dueling/fighting any profession more.. then the combat medic...
Now don't get me wrong.. there are viable ways around your profession to beat you. With a tk's power boost... 2 brandies some other food that increases focus/willpower (the name escapes me) and a M.gold... my mind is buffed to about 1900/2000/2000 above the alreay 1000/400/900 (I'm zabrak)... throw in an equilbrium if I'm not stunned... and boom.. I can heal that massive 2900 mind in almost one shot.... get buffed.. and what am I worried about... what on EARTH could I find wrong with combat medic... it's dps isn't as high as say a rifleman.. or a tkmaster... and if I'm a doctor.. it has no effect on me at all really... AND YET.. since the first cm/doctor ravaged a group of newb's... the awe and fear of the combat medic has lived on... more and more people flock to it.. the passing words of "oh yeah.. when I was a cm... I was amazing"... in the hallways is still said... are people just not catching on???.. why are they still kicking so many people's butts??? is everyone just a dumb Ff*&^ who isn't ready for the power of the cm.. or is there a real unbalance here??
Now I know... all cm's are innocent... I mean... your not the develpment team... your just playing a "working class" that can kick butt... so I'm not blaming you for your ability to dictate combat.. and have people dislike being poisoned... I'm just expressing my opinion.. as I'm sure many have before myself.. pro and con on the issue... but my problem is a relatively simple one...
BACK in the day.. when kd was THE move.. because once you were down you were out... I never really got THAT mad.. because I looked down the list of people's skill levels.. and I saw.. Oh.. well most professions have "some" kd defence... with a little this and a little that... kd isn't really that bad.... because I can be what I want.. and still have SOME way to defend myself...
Then.. a most recent craze on my server is the rifleman... and ohhh there stun damage.. we for the longest time did not have stun helmets because of our crappy servers resources... but now that we do... well.. stun damage isn't SUCH a big thing.. I can still be what I want.. and defend myself... I wasn't FORCED to pick up something beyond whatever I fancied.. to protect myself in a battle... not to say I don't lose.. this isn't about win or lose... it's about being able to defend myself....IN FACT... all damage types can be protected by armor of some type or another(poor poor wookiees.. you know I never get mad at a cm wookiee.. I always feel like.. "yeah that's right.. stick it to the man").... so I ran down the combat professions:
fencer(stun, kinetic),
tk(kinetic)
swordsman(kinetic, blast)
pikeman(kinetic, electricity and even energy with the new lance)
pistoleer(kinetic, heat, acid, stun)--- smuggler has all except the acid
carbineer(.... blah blah blah blah blah.... the damage types are all defendable.. all of them... with good armor....
EVEN the bloody commando has had his DOT domesticated to jack nothing.. along the same lines as a crappy bleed by pistoleers or any other class that bleeds....
NOW.. the CM.... you can poison.. and disease. To which in all honesty.. in a battle.. has 2 defences... the doctor and the tk-meditation... but in a duel.. or a pvp situation with less then 4 on 4... you will not be allowed to sit and meditate.. so we're looking at ONE defence..... the doctor...
This would be perfectly fine in my eyes... sure.. pvp with a doctor.. makes sense... except for one small problem...
YOUR THE ONLY CLASS THAT REQUIRES THAT!!!!!
yes the caps are neccessary... because some combat medics don't understand this fact.. and I KNOW the developers can't see this as "balanced".. because... it's not.. any logical person can read this argument and conclude that it isn't balanced....
Now say... if my energy lance sent a pulsating stream of energy in your body that you needed.. say.. ohhhhh... an image designer to cure... what do you think the response to that would be.... the pikeman would be like.. "oh.. well then I guess you better go pick up image designer then.. or go fight with one if you want to stand up to me"... and everyone else would be going... "WHAT THE F*&^???"... now your starting to see why any logical person.. might see a problem with this class.. and why people don't PvP when combat medics are involved.. and why it's not THAT hard to beat someone else up as a CM... not that you don't get beat... I've beaten some in my day, one on one.. even with them shotting my head in turn... but just because your not-unstopable doesn't mean your not unbalanced...
BUT THEN again.. your just a combat medic.. your just taking advantage of what the gods of development has passed your way. And all that I'm saying makes no difference.... well this is all true... but I'm saying it anyways..... for fun
chee
Now don't get me wrong.. there are viable ways around your profession to beat you. With a tk's power boost... 2 brandies some other food that increases focus/willpower (the name escapes me) and a M.gold... my mind is buffed to about 1900/2000/2000 above the alreay 1000/400/900 (I'm zabrak)... throw in an equilbrium if I'm not stunned... and boom.. I can heal that massive 2900 mind in almost one shot.... get buffed.. and what am I worried about... what on EARTH could I find wrong with combat medic... it's dps isn't as high as say a rifleman.. or a tkmaster... and if I'm a doctor.. it has no effect on me at all really... AND YET.. since the first cm/doctor ravaged a group of newb's... the awe and fear of the combat medic has lived on... more and more people flock to it.. the passing words of "oh yeah.. when I was a cm... I was amazing"... in the hallways is still said... are people just not catching on???.. why are they still kicking so many people's butts??? is everyone just a dumb Ff*&^ who isn't ready for the power of the cm.. or is there a real unbalance here??
Now I know... all cm's are innocent... I mean... your not the develpment team... your just playing a "working class" that can kick butt... so I'm not blaming you for your ability to dictate combat.. and have people dislike being poisoned... I'm just expressing my opinion.. as I'm sure many have before myself.. pro and con on the issue... but my problem is a relatively simple one...
BACK in the day.. when kd was THE move.. because once you were down you were out... I never really got THAT mad.. because I looked down the list of people's skill levels.. and I saw.. Oh.. well most professions have "some" kd defence... with a little this and a little that... kd isn't really that bad.... because I can be what I want.. and still have SOME way to defend myself...
Then.. a most recent craze on my server is the rifleman... and ohhh there stun damage.. we for the longest time did not have stun helmets because of our crappy servers resources... but now that we do... well.. stun damage isn't SUCH a big thing.. I can still be what I want.. and defend myself... I wasn't FORCED to pick up something beyond whatever I fancied.. to protect myself in a battle... not to say I don't lose.. this isn't about win or lose... it's about being able to defend myself....IN FACT... all damage types can be protected by armor of some type or another(poor poor wookiees.. you know I never get mad at a cm wookiee.. I always feel like.. "yeah that's right.. stick it to the man").... so I ran down the combat professions:
fencer(stun, kinetic),
tk(kinetic)
swordsman(kinetic, blast)
pikeman(kinetic, electricity and even energy with the new lance)
pistoleer(kinetic, heat, acid, stun)--- smuggler has all except the acid
carbineer(.... blah blah blah blah blah.... the damage types are all defendable.. all of them... with good armor....
EVEN the bloody commando has had his DOT domesticated to jack nothing.. along the same lines as a crappy bleed by pistoleers or any other class that bleeds....
NOW.. the CM.... you can poison.. and disease. To which in all honesty.. in a battle.. has 2 defences... the doctor and the tk-meditation... but in a duel.. or a pvp situation with less then 4 on 4... you will not be allowed to sit and meditate.. so we're looking at ONE defence..... the doctor...
This would be perfectly fine in my eyes... sure.. pvp with a doctor.. makes sense... except for one small problem...
YOUR THE ONLY CLASS THAT REQUIRES THAT!!!!!
yes the caps are neccessary... because some combat medics don't understand this fact.. and I KNOW the developers can't see this as "balanced".. because... it's not.. any logical person can read this argument and conclude that it isn't balanced....
Now say... if my energy lance sent a pulsating stream of energy in your body that you needed.. say.. ohhhhh... an image designer to cure... what do you think the response to that would be.... the pikeman would be like.. "oh.. well then I guess you better go pick up image designer then.. or go fight with one if you want to stand up to me"... and everyone else would be going... "WHAT THE F*&^???"... now your starting to see why any logical person.. might see a problem with this class.. and why people don't PvP when combat medics are involved.. and why it's not THAT hard to beat someone else up as a CM... not that you don't get beat... I've beaten some in my day, one on one.. even with them shotting my head in turn... but just because your not-unstopable doesn't mean your not unbalanced...
BUT THEN again.. your just a combat medic.. your just taking advantage of what the gods of development has passed your way. And all that I'm saying makes no difference.... well this is all true... but I'm saying it anyways..... for fun
chee
RhenGordon
Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:19 pm
#2
Well you make an interesting point. Now let me make one of my own.
Again it is a case of someone coming in and complaining about things that the combat medic community have already said are issues and are asking for things to be changed. So you come in and state the obvious, once again.
Look, we have said that we would like to have things that would increase your ability to resist our damage. We as a community do not agree with anything that gives you 100% immunity, nor should you really be able to lesson the amount of damage we do to you, but giving the rest of the player base something like an innoculation pack that would increase your resistance to poisons and diseases (each would be a seperate dose) would be a good move.
Many combat medics would view this as a nerf, and in some ways it might be considered one, but I would disagree with that. My point of view about nerfs are the wholesale weakening of one profession without giving another class the means to do it. Let me explain: Suppose the devs just came in and said everyone is automatically 50% resistant to all poisons and diseases. This would be a nerf to the combat medic profession. Now let's suppose that the devs put in an innoculation pack that gives you 50% resistance. This innoculation pack was delivered by combat medics or doctors much like a buff. This would not be a nerf in my opinion as it is a strengthening of a class. It is up to each player to make sure they have the innoculations before going into combat. Even with the innoculations you are not completely safe.
Another thing you seem to be complaining about is the mind damage. This is what everyone wants to complain about. The fact that the mind pool is unhealable makes any attack, yes even fencer attacks more powerful than attacks that attack any other pool. Almost every character in the game has the means to heal some minor damage in combat so health and action damage is not as big of a deal. Mind damage is a problem. Why do you see all these people taking up rifleman? There is no defense against a rifleman either. Yeah you can get armor that will lesson the damage done, but even when you lesson the amount of damage done by a rifleman, the rifleman DPS is still more than a combat medic can do. The devs cannot lower the DPS on poisons and diseases because a fully buffed will be able to heal faster than the poison can tick if you lower it much more.
There are other balancing issues that you are not seeing though. We pay a lot of points to be able to do what we do. We spend a lot of time collecting resources to create our weapons that only we can use. We have no quick outlet for cash. Our weapons are the most expensive in the game, excepting maybe rocket launchers that commandos use, yet the commandos do not have to use a rocket launcher do they? How many shots can a rifleman get from a T21? How many hits can you get with your sword? I can get 42 shots out of a poison before I have to create a new one.
You see, there are other mitigating circumstances behind what a combat medic can do. The CM community at large have brought all of these concerns to the attention of the developers but these changes are slow coming, if they come at all.
As frustrated as you are fighting us, we are fustrated as being the red-headed step children of SWG. Everyone and their brother comes in here and tells us that we should not be able to do this, we should not be able to do that, yet they offer very few options outside of those that have already been cussed and discussed by the community.
So now you see why we are frustrated with you that come here and spout off all this "real life" knowledge. The fact is that this is a game, we are playing as we were designed to be played. The developers have said that we are balanced and no changes to poison and disease are forth-coming so all of you might be better served finding new ways to defeat us, or come up with sound alternatives to the problems you face.
Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:16 am
#5
Not if I can't at least carry Rhens children.
I would like to point out that the original poster at least had a civil tone and did some rational arguing. If more non-CM posters were like that I would have retained more of my original hair color and would not necessary look at the prospect of being completely white of scalp by age 30.
Thank you sir, for that.
Rchuno
Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:42 am
#6
Wow can I say two long posts? Anyway thanks for being civi here where most are not.
Rhen nicely put. I know not everyone (especialy non CMs that feel we should be nerfed) is happy about what was said but it is all true.
Morganite
Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:03 pm
#7
Hah! rhen is on my server, I get first crack at marrying him!
Woohoo!
RhenGordon
Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:54 pm
#8
Thank you all for the kind words. I had sworn off replying to these types of posts, but I could not pass this one up.
The original poster was very civil and actually had some well thought out complaints. He was also articulate enough to express them in a logical manner just as he said he was going to. I very much appreciate that and wanted to give him the proper respect he deserved. He was very much different from the normal troll that posts in this forum and it was refreshing.
The interesting thing of it is, I agree with him on many of his points, as I think many of the CM community does as well.
As for all the offers for marriage, please send me your name, income, age, income, sex, income, a picture of your house, oh, and did I say income? Yes, well send those all to me, and I will hold a lottery to see which of you will be the lucky person.
I should also tell you that I have been married three times already, my first to wives died from mushroom poisoning, my third wife died from a fractured skull.... she didn't like the mushrooms!
Munga_Meds
Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:30 am
#9
First - good post from the originator. If more complaints were like this post - we would enjoy them and be able to discuss them rationally.
Second - good reply Rhen.
Third - there is another way besides Doctors and TKM, the resist foods. But most people decided to eat something else, to boost something else. That is YOUR decision, to not come into the battle prepared for a SPECIFIC type of damage. I can't take the ENTIRE blame, therefor, for your taking my full damage from poisons and diseases. Most of us long term CM crafters make our poisons in the 110%+ range, just so they always stick. If you ate the resist foods, the % chance would drop below 100% and you would have the chance of them not sticking at all. Again, most everyone I have seen chooses NOT to buy/eat these foods, but that is THEIR choice.
Sitssosk
Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:41 am
#10
Munga_Meds wrote:
Third - there is another way besides Doctors and TKM, the resist foods. But most people decided to eat something else, to boost something else. That is YOUR decision, to not come into the battle prepared for a SPECIFIC type of damage. I can't take the ENTIRE blame, therefor, for your taking my full damage from poisons and diseases. Most of us long term CM crafters make our poisons in the 110%+ range, just so they always stick. If you ate the resist foods, the % chance would drop below 100% and you would have the chance of them not sticking at all. Again, most everyone I have seen chooses NOT to buy/eat these foods, but that is THEIR choice.
Well OK that's one way to look at it. But fom my experience people don't eat resist foods is because;
1) Eating food that gives + mind stats or damage reduction is more efective overall since eating poison/disease resist foods protects you from CMs ONLY, it wont help defend against any of the other professions you will frequently encounter in PvP.
2) Since like you say anyCM worth his salt will make his poisons at 110%+ resist food still don't really help. =/
Gnuut
Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:09 am
#11
Not all of us more CMvocal supporters are riding power trips. We, much like you want to enjoy the game. There are those of us who have been playing CMs the longest, have suffered through the nerfs and still remain CMs. While I agree there are issues with the CM class such as range and AE, I don't beleive that reducing us to glorified stim dispensers is the answer either.
Alot of players rant and rave that we are the end all and we are far from it. There are alot of limitations to our class that many CMs mention but are promptly discredited by players who are not willing to listen. It is turning into a big witch hunt.
- If you reduce our range what do we get in return for a skilltree that is almost wholly dedicated to giving us a range bonus?
- If you reduce our range how will you compensate for our 4 second immobility after applying our meds?
- If you apply a damage reduction, how will you compensate us for the already near idiotic rare spawn of resources we require?
- If you reduce the area of effect on our meds, how will we be compensated for the resources spent to manipulate this stat?
- If the CM profession is changed to where the only difference between a Master Medic and a Master CM is the ability to move faster, ranged, area and mind heals at a cost of an additional 92 skill points, is there any real incentive to play a CM at all?
- If doctors are given the ability to AE cure (which in accordance with current schematics would be ridiculously easy and cheap to produce) how is the average CM supposed to keep his head above water in maintenance costs?
- If the role of a CM is supposed to be the best combat healer, then why are there more doctors on the battlefields than in the rear with the gear?
- If range and damage are cappedto the point that a dabbler CM has the same range and damage as a Master CM, then what is the point to mastering CM at all?
Tymothi
Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:34 am
#12
<sigh> Everyone wants CMs to get nerfed. We spend LOTS of skill points just for this profession ( tied with commando or something like that ) and our poisons are only good if we're master AND if we use advanced components ( the resources for thesedo NOT spawn very frequently, at least not on my server ). It is not easy to be a CM, we need to do so many things before our poisons even make up for the fact that we're spending so many skill points on a support class ( our description says that we're supposed to be a support class but we"can hold our own alone," which means we pretty much suck solo ).
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