Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Mixed feelings on CM

DoctorGriggs
Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:51 am
#1

Well, I have been a master doctor/master combat medic with my main character for quite some time. I have always been very defensive of CM with all the nerf callers. Recently I been spending more time playing my alt char (Pistoleer/Smuggler/TKA) and being on the opposite side of a CM, especially now with the spider venom packs, it is making me re-think the whole combat medic profession. I have always heard people whine about the range CM has and I could never quite duplicate these 90M range hits. The other night, I was constantly getting nailed from 90M or so from a single CM. Someone from my group would go over to kill him only for him to clone and Zerg-rush right back at us. As a TKA you can meditate this away, but not when fighting, stunned, on-fire, or dizzy. ONE player single-handedly made 30 players ineffective.

Now I do not want this to turn into a war of nerf-callers vs true defenders, but I am wondering, how can we possibly balance this situation out? I know about the mind pool being un-healable, but that is not even an issue. You need like a ratio of 6 doctors per combat medic to keep up with disease cures alone.

Any CONSTRUCTIVE ideas? If we don't solve the problem fairly ourselves as a community, the devs will do it for us and none of us may end up liking it.



Griggs - Undead Priest
Co-Leader of the Unholy Legion - Kalecgos

atimes
Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:53 am
#2

How would you rate your abilities as a doctor? Go into battle again with your doc/CM main and instead of focusing on applying poisions focus on the doc side of your character and try healingothers in your groupand see how that goes.


Personally I think that if there were more docs with a clue then CM's wouldn't be nearly as effective.


DoctorGriggs
Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:01 am
#3



atimes wrote:

How would you rate your abilities as a doctor? Go into battle again with your doc/CM main and instead of focusing on applying poisions focus on the doc side of your character and try healing others in your group and see how that goes.

Personally I think that if there were more docs with a clue then CM's wouldn't be nearly as effective.





I played my Doc/CM the other day and spent 99% of my time in a healing capacity. I simply could not keep up with the cures. This kid would come out buffed and toss two disease and/or poison packs each time before he died. When you have like 30 people and 4 doctors getting hit by two packs every minute it is damn hard if not impossible to keep up.



Griggs - Undead Priest
Co-Leader of the Unholy Legion - Kalecgos

Secksay
Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:27 am
#4

OK, I want in on this secret, man. I gotta find out how to throw a poison pack 90 meters! I can't throw past 29 meters and I'm 4/4/2/4 CM. I wanna know how that's possible.

Next, to figure out the solution. I thought the DEV's at some point were going to reduce the range to about 32 meter maximum to keep in line with other grenade type weaponry. That would solve the problem of the range issue.


On a realistic combat note, Chemical Weapons are nasty. Look at tear gas...spreads fast, effects almost everyone in the immediate blast radius, and is casulty causing (incapacites people, rendering them harmless. Not killing them.) It would take several doctors, with gas mask to run around and inject everyone with some sort of antidote. ! guy throws the grenade, several have to clean up the mess.


Now, to SCI-FI world of SWG. There should be a way of using a grenade type item to administer an airborne antidote to a large radius to counter this threat.


Warfare research is simple. One side makes a weapon, the other will either make a weapon/item to counter that one, or make the same type weapon only bigger and better.


I have a few questions though. When a Doc heals poison or disease, does it heal damage as well? If so, we could have antidote grenades for CM's that just healed the status effects and didn't heal damage. I could live with that.




Seck'say Muth'ahh
Tatooine, City of Mos Tyrenia
Master Combat Medic / 0001 Swordsman
Warrent Officer II in the Rebel SpecForce
Mastered: Medic, Entertainer, Combat Medic, Pistoleer
"I bring ROCK AND ROLL back to warfare."
Rchuno
Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:44 am
#5

I would be happy with a larger delay on throws of poisons. Maybe at leaste double that of the heals that we dish out. I already know though that this would be a huge coding dilema for the devs. Since Poisons.diseases are tied to the medical skills. I would have no problem with a 20 second timer between throws. This does not seem like much but it gives the docs a chance to heal a couple people, but on the other side it does not take so long that it makes CM ineffectual. (if they play smart.)



****************************
* Niccaurra {} Master DOC / Aspiring Merchant
*Niqe {DRUNK} TKM/Pist
****************************
DoctorGriggs
Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:47 am
#6

Well, the problem is in the area of effect. Say the radius is 20M and I throw the pack 64M. This means that a target on the far end of the 20M radius area of effect could get hit even though he is 84M from me. In theory at least. I have never been able to come anywhere near this so I must be missing something.



Griggs - Undead Priest
Co-Leader of the Unholy Legion - Kalecgos

vortexala
Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:39 am
#7


DoctorGriggs wrote:


-snip-

I was constantly getting nailed from 90M or so from a single CM. Someone from my group would go over to kill him only for him to clone and Zerg-rush right back at us. As a TKA you can meditate this away, but not when fighting, stunned, on-fire, or dizzy. ONE player single-handedly made 30 players ineffective.



The fact that this one person can continuously zerg rush from the cloning center is a GCW issue, a TEF issue, not an issue regarding Combat Medics in particular.

The fact that 90m, even with an AoE, is too far is a known issue.

The fact that docs really need a new form of curative abilities is a doc issue.

I hope all of these issues get addressed at some point in the near future, so that perhaps CMs won't be considered the default scape-goat for issues that aren't their fault.

Not saying you're doing that, Griggs, just a general statement is all.

Message Edited by vortexala on 03-09-2004 09:39 AM



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
TheGreatOne00
Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:03 am
#8






atimes wrote:

How would you rate your abilities as a doctor? Go into battle again with your doc/CM main and instead of focusing on applying poisions focus on the doc side of your character and try healingothers in your groupand see how that goes.


Personally I think that if there were more docs with a clue then CM's wouldn't be nearly as effective.









Does more docs with a clue mean a 4:1 ratio of people with cure poison abilities? I however think getting this amountdocs(with a clue)is not the answer. AE poison needs to be reduced, period.There will never be a chance to kill a CM when the range is reduced to 64m before he poisons you. Maybehe is dead, but you are taking the same amount of damage as before with docs trying to cure as many as they can, and they can just do it again once they clone. As toit being a GTEF issue, maybe, but last I checked I clone overt in my city


Basically in its current state, CMs are ruining group pvp. You can run your numbers, do whatever you want, but this is the truth. Many of you know this, but just wish to be the powerhouse you currently are in the GCW.


My personal fix to CMs, I really donthave a great one, however I would like to see AE damage halved(not 75% I think that is too drastic). With then a drink(not food) that uses around 50 fillingto make poison resisted around 50% of the time lasting around 10 min. I think this would balance CMs fairly well. It would make people have the choice to either take a brandy/poison resist or blue milk/poison resist. Reasonwhy I didn't pickfood as it is a lot easier to just have stomach space for that at any time.




Ovonn Ig'A
Master Doctor
Master Fencer
krais99
Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:09 am
#9

The biggest problem that I have with the current area effect is the combat medics ability to hit every single person within the blast radius of their poison/disease. I'm a master combat medic/master rifleman and I've single handedly been able to destroy an attempt to take out a faction base using area effect poison/diseases. The last time I did this, I infected over 20 people with one shot. Sorry, but that should not happen..So, here's what I would like to see happen:


Area effect blast radius reduced to 20m max. The core of that radius (2m) receives the full power of the poison/disease. For every 5m outside of that core, the power of the poison/disease reduces by 20%. Thus making it so at the outskirts of that radius, a person affected by the poison/disease would receive 20% of the full power of the poison/disease. This would not detract from using area poison/disease, but bring them in-line with a typical grenade, instead of being a nuclear weapon.


Hate to say it, as I've been a strong opponent to any sort of nerf to combat medics, but we need to be. On Radiant, the ratio of combat medics is staggering.PvP is just not fun at all anymore because the outcome ofevery single battle is determined by the power of the poison/disease that is being thrown.


Gilean

vortexala
Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:19 am
#10

Krais, only thing I see wrong with your proposal is the coding issues. It would likely take far longer to code that then it would to simply wait out the combat revamp.

Also, the upcoming crafting changes will have an effect on all of our meds, offensive and defensive. I expect to see reduced effectiveness and/or range as well as AoE radius once the crafting changes are implemented simply due to the nature of the crafting change itself.



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
krais99
Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:26 am
#11

Hey Vort, good to see ya. Honestly the changes in the power of poisons/diseases from upcoming revamp of crafting won't be seen for a long time. I've got well over 20 crates of poisons/diseases made up already.. I could probably sustain myself for months with those crates alone.


Unless, of course, they implement a similar change to all crates of items like they're doing with the pre-nerf fwg5's and scatter pistols.


By the way, do you have a list of current issues that are being worked on for combat medics? The only list I've seen is quite old and hasn't been updated recently..


Gilean
vortexala
Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:31 am
#12

Actually working on an issues thread atm, hard to do from work though. Should be up later tonight/tommorrow night.

As for the overabundance of 'pre-nerf' items, yeah, I know. They could simply make the crates unusable as has been done with the pre-nerf weapons, or it could be effected the same way the buff packs were for docs a few months back and simply have the change put upon it when you pull an item from the crate. We'll simply have to wait and see on that, I suppose.



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
krais99
Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:38 am
#13

Look forward to reading your updated issues thread. Gotta love the "hurry up and wait" for the upcoming combat changes..hopefully the wait won't be too long


Gilean
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