Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Focus Thread : New rules for Movement Buffs vs Snares
Page 1 of 4
BadgerSmaker
Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:53 am
#1
If you haven't already heard, you probably have, so this is a bit of rumour control, there is a change in the works on how snares effect you if you have a movement buff active.
Got a Dev quote for you:
Debuffs will not remove their counterpart buffs; stacking adrenal boost with thyroid rupture will net -15 speed. At the end of the TR, AB will remain. Only movement effects are absolute and even then the buff is not removed, just negated for the duration.
That leaves the problem with the all mighty CM Electrolyte Drain (/bow electrolyteDrain; /worship electrolyteDrain) stopping you from Burst Running / Force Running / Form Up / Retreat / Charge for a whoppingtwominutes plus.
I'm suggesting some balances to CM in case they feel the need to nerf my beloved Edrain, like upping the chance to resist debuffs and tying that to the Bio Suppression Effectiveness Mod, the same way DoT's are tied to Medical Warfare Efficiency mod.
With the increased action costs (17% action and 10% mind) this might be viable.
What do you think?
Message Edited by BadgerSmaker on 10-12-2005 06:54 PM
da-bro
Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:20 pm
#2
Even reducing the chance this debuff has to stick would not be sufficient. The reasons are as follows:
1. A 2 minute snare on a melee character with no healing is enough to kill them 3 or 4 times over without risk.
2. A 2 minute snare on a melee character with healing, will result in the character having to heal alot and after 2 minute of this, their mind will be shot to pieces and you have then gained a MASSIVE upper hand in the fight.
Basically, when it sticks and if you're fighting a melee character, its all one way traffic in terms of damage for the whole 2 minutes. Resulting in one of the above two scenarios. The only plausible ways to balance Electrolyte Drain are as follows:
1. Reduce the amount you are slowed by the debuff.
2. Reduce the duration.
3. Give the skill huge costs.
4. A blend of the above.
1. A 2 minute snare on a melee character with no healing is enough to kill them 3 or 4 times over without risk.
2. A 2 minute snare on a melee character with healing, will result in the character having to heal alot and after 2 minute of this, their mind will be shot to pieces and you have then gained a MASSIVE upper hand in the fight.
Basically, when it sticks and if you're fighting a melee character, its all one way traffic in terms of damage for the whole 2 minutes. Resulting in one of the above two scenarios. The only plausible ways to balance Electrolyte Drain are as follows:
1. Reduce the amount you are slowed by the debuff.
2. Reduce the duration.
3. Give the skill huge costs.
4. A blend of the above.
CaixCatab
Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:14 pm
#3
Meh, IMHO, best option is to *not* make it ovverride movement buffs completely. A snared melee player that can burstrun still has a chance of reaching his target. Making them absolute just makes snares way more powerful than they need to be, while at the same reducing the usefullness of movement buffs in general.
Opie76
Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:27 pm
#4
I have no problem with snares "reducing" the effectivness of Force run. However what I do have a problem with is that FR3 is already only good as an escap tool because of damage reduction. You take away the ablity to use it for this purpose, then what is the good of having it.
What should happen is that normal snare should negate fr1/burstrun. Improved snare (ie- Improved Cripplingshot/kneecap/ElecDrain) should reduce Fr2 Speed by a set %, and reduce Fr3 a set %.
Running Speed associated with force run/burstrun should be assigned a tangible value, like 125 for FR3, 75 for FR2, and 50 for FR1/burstrun.
Improved Snare would be assigned a debuff value of say 50 and normal snare 25. Assuming most people people pick up the improved part of their respective snares you would have Fr1 esentially turned off until the snare timer went away. Fr2 would be 2/3 slower, and for master Enhancers they would be approx move at 60% of their normal speed.
These are just numbers off the top of my head, and they might need a bit of tweaking.
Ho'mer
Oh, and reduce the duration to 45s. No other mezz besides ED has a duration longer than that.
Message Edited by Opie76 on 10-12-2005 10:28 PM
Trigg_Ichosw
Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:27 am
#5
BadgerSmaker wrote:
If you haven't already heard, you probably have, so this is a bit of rumour control, there is a change in the works on how snares effect you if you have a movement buff active.
Got a Dev quote for you:
Debuffs will not remove their counterpart buffs; stacking adrenal boost with thyroid rupture will net -15 speed. At the end of the TR, AB will remain. Only movement effects are absolute and even then the buff is not removed, just negated for the duration.
That leaves the problem with the all mighty CM Electrolyte Drain (/bow electrolyteDrain; /worship electrolyteDrain) stopping you from Burst Running / Force Running / Form Up / Retreat / Charge for a whoppingtwominutes plus.
I'm suggesting some balances to CM in case they feel the need to nerf my beloved Edrain, like upping the chance to resist debuffs and tying that to the Bio Suppression Effectiveness Mod, the same way DoT's are tied to Medical Warfare Efficiency mod.
With the increased action costs (17% action and 10% mind) this might be viable.
What do you think?
Message Edited by BadgerSmaker on 10-12-2005 06:54 PM
Thanks for the clarification on this, however the problem this brings is that a snare can be re-applied as soon as the snare ends. As a result those with a ranged snare can more or less make a melee character perma-snared. This renders a melee player incapable of getting in close enough to attack.
Tecdem
Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:31 am
#6
I like the idea of Electrolyte Drain negating force run- it makes sense and should prove very useful in actually snaring 
However, you have a point that electrolyte drain will now be incredibly powerful. An increase inthe chance to resist this debuff would be very reasonable and is warranted IMO.Currently, I almost never miss when applying this debuff, so I wouldnt be too upset if it was dropped from say a 90% chance of sticking to like 65%-75%.
However, you have a point that electrolyte drain will now be incredibly powerful. An increase inthe chance to resist this debuff would be very reasonable and is warranted IMO.Currently, I almost never miss when applying this debuff, so I wouldnt be too upset if it was dropped from say a 90% chance of sticking to like 65%-75%.
Tecdem
Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:33 am
#7
Not completely true, parawan cake and burstrun should still work- yes?
Trigg_Ichosw wrote:
Thanks for the clarification on this, however the problem this brings is that a snare can be re-applied as soon as the snare ends. As a result those with a ranged snare can more or less make a melee character perma-snared. This renders a melee player incapable of getting in close enough to attack.
Trigg_Ichosw
Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:37 am
#8
Tecdem wrote:
Not completely true, parawan cake and burstrun should still work- yes?
Trigg_Ichosw wrote:
Thanks for the clarification on this, however the problem this brings is that a snare can be re-applied as soon as the snare ends. As a result those with a ranged snare can more or less make a melee character perma-snared. This renders a melee player incapable of getting in close enough to attack.
I refer you to the OP comment
"That leaves the problem with the all mighty CM Electrolyte Drain (/bow electrolyteDrain; /worship electrolyteDrain) stopping you from Burst Running / Force Running / Form Up / Retreat / Charge for a whoppingtwominutes plus"
BadgerSmaker
Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:44 am
#10
Trigg_Ichosw wrote:
Tecdem wrote:
Not completely true, parawan cake and burstrun should still work- yes?
Trigg_Ichosw wrote:
Thanks for the clarification on this, however the problem this brings is that a snare can be re-applied as soon as the snare ends. As a result those with a ranged snare can more or less make a melee character perma-snared. This renders a melee player incapable of getting in close enough to attack.
I refer you to the OP comment
"That leaves the problem with the all mighty CM Electrolyte Drain (/bow electrolyteDrain; /worship electrolyteDrain) stopping you from Burst Running / Force Running / Form Up / Retreat / Charge for a whoppingtwominutes plus"
Yup, you can't use any movement buff to get out of the snare, it won't work. In PvE NPC's are also using snares, so are animals, and they use them a lot.
So no more burst running through all the Urnsori in Myyydril to get to Necrosis as they will snare you.
Tecdem
Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:46 am
#11
Hrmph, sounds neat. Shouldmake the game a good amount more challenging- especially not being able to kite tough creatures.
BadgerSmaker wrote:
Yup, you can't use any movement buff to get out of the snare, it won't work. In PvE NPC's are also using snares, so are animals, and they use them a lot.
So no more burst running through all the Urnsori in Myyydril to get to Necrosis as they will snare you.
BadgerSmaker
Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:25 am
#12
The big outcry is of course how this effects Force Run.
There is some new word from the Devs, just waiting to see if I can quote them.
Kobrakai_Force
Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:31 am
#13
This has to be the stupidest thing ive ever seen. I put SP into getting FR2 improved supression for those sticky situations whether its PvP or PvE and i want to use them whenever i damn want. Also all someone has to do in mass pvp is bring out a commando weap use the snare an hes just removed all movement buffs an snared the entire area with 1 attack..... its fine how it is leave it alone. if u must do it make it so snares slow u down a bit more when u have a movement buff active.
And with the commando thing, applies to pistoleers root to, techincally they could keep an entire area root indefinatly if there were 2 of them 'cause last i heard it didnt have a rage effect... but thats another story......
Message Edited by Kobrakai_Force on 10-13-2005 11:34 AM
Page 1 of 4